RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- (Full Version)

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AthenaSurrenders -> RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- (11/10/2013 3:36:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TNDommeK

Well in a few weeks/months when newbs come on here asking for advice bc of hurting their partner, we will know why.


The ones who are stupid enough to injure themselves would do it regardless of whether or not someone made 50 Shades themed cuffs. If anything, there's less chance of harm with a kit like this than with something they improvised themselves. The people who are sensible wouldn't come to any harm either way.

Just because someone learns about kink from a romance novel doesn't mean they're an idiot. Even if it did, it's not as if those people couldn't have bought some furry handcuffs anyway.




KnightofMists -> RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- (11/10/2013 6:24:00 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

OMFG! OK, now suddenly I'm having a strong urge to find my way to Lupercalia this year and greet KnightOfMysts warmly... all decked out in my "play like grey" gear.

Damn we are poverty stricken nowadays but that just might be funny enough to be worth prioritizing.



Yeah but I only see black and white... You in grey... You would likly go unnoticed by me ;)




shiftyw -> RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- (11/10/2013 7:25:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: petitespot

Ya know....I'm pretty sure a huge percentage of us started out exploring this on a "vanilla" bdsm level. We didn't jump right into hardcore, extreme play on day one. At least I didn't. It was a gradual learning experience. Try something. Like it. Try something else a little more extreme. Like it. And so on and so on.

Look at all your judgmental attitudes. Like you were the gods and goddesses of the munch the first day you stepped into the ring.

It doesn't affect my life one fucking bit if anyone buys this stuff. They do it because they're curious. They're starting somewhere. Just like we all did.


^ ditto that.

But also not everyone aims to achieve extreme edge play. To me if this does it for someone...who am I to judge?




JeffBC -> RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- (11/10/2013 8:09:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: petitespot
Look at all your judgmental attitudes. Like you were the gods and goddesses of the munch the first day you stepped into the ring.

Aw come on. That's a bit harsh. RS was sure poking fun at the newbies. But how many others did? I laughed at the LARP aspect but then like most everyone else mentioned that this stuff was hardly new.

For me personally, my big joke in this isn't the items itself. IT's the meta-level joke of how the "serious" BDSM'ers react to the items. Man, I can SO imagine myself strutting into Lupercalia Sasha Cohen style all decked out 50 shades gear and ideal with at least 3 slaves doing my best "big dom on the block" imitation.

Just for the record, I don't "play" at all. So any of this stuff would be "more advanced" than anything I owned or had ever used before. I might actually like the crop (were it not for the branding). A "can't go wrong" crop might be a good tool for Carol & I.




ResidentSadist -> RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- (11/10/2013 8:13:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: petitespot
Ya know....I'm pretty sure a huge percentage of us started out exploring this on a "vanilla" bdsm level. We didn't jump right into hardcore, extreme play on day one. At least I didn't. It was a gradual learning experience. Try something. Like it. Try something else a little more extreme. Like it. And so on and so on.

Look at all your judgmental attitudes. Like you were the gods and goddesses of the munch the first day you stepped into the ring.

It doesn't affect my life one fucking bit if anyone buys this stuff. They do it because they're curious. They're starting somewhere. Just like we all did.

Sure, we all started out somewhere but BDSM wasn't popular, fashionable or an acceptable thing to do. We had to really love leather and believe in it contrary to the mentally ill claims of the DSM. We had to stand fast despite the rejection from church and society. We had to hide from pursuit by the law and the generation before me had to hide from the hetros that wanted to lock them up in jail or mental institutions for also being gay. We had to stand up against wind to engage our kinks, not go with the flow of it along with millions of other fans. I am afraid the impact of what's really happening and what changes may come from it may have escaped your perception.

When John Q Public finally sticks his nose in real lifestyle BDSM and gets a good whiff, it is either going to be really good or really bad. It could be good like when they took homosexuality out of the DSM and eventually legalized it . . . or it could be bad like if we crush John Q's "play like Grey" fantasy when he sees blood, pain and real torture that stifle his passion for it, rub his morals the wrong way and turn him against us. Then it could turn really bad like when drugs went from being the peaceful recreations of hippies to the government's "war on drugs" or when a witch hunt turned into the Salem Witch trials.

I have talked with leather community leaders about this who stood on both sides of the fence. The pro arguments dismiss 50 Shades and the influx of John Q Public by citing previous books and movies that caused waves of newbees like Story of O, Secretary and others. My counterpoint is that those were different because they only caused a small influx. We could absorb them and "each one teach one." Whereas with 50 Shades of Grey we are dreadfully outnumber by its fan base. If interest keeps growing and they keep coming, if they deside to water us down and make us SSC, socially acceptable and politically correct, we will be overrun, out-manned and relatively helpless to stop them . . . they will absorb us. I have never had anyone disagree with that observation and many changed their view point about the importance of the 50 Shades fan base concerning our future.

That is why it is so very interesting to me as to whether or not John and Jane Q are going to progress from masturbating to that fiction and start role playing with each other using the officially sanctioned gear so they can "play like Grey". So you see, even if we started out with the same acts and the same slap and tickle gear as 50 Shades fans, we had strong hearts and a passionate love for the leather lifestyle to do what we did while going against society, the church and the law. That is quite different than the "play like Grey" motives, fortitude and level of passion when role playing. They have a passion for the sexual role play, not the leather lifestyle. I wonder if they venture out and get face to face with hard core lifestyle BDSM, whether or not the intensity of our real lifestyle will offend or frighten them. I think that is judgmental attitude you are talking about, what's behind that attitude and how it may effect your life after all . . . that is what I think you may have missed.




needlesandpins -> RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- (11/10/2013 8:36:42 AM)

not everyone into BDSM is into the leather lifestyle along with it though. I couldn't tell you the first damn thing about the leather lifestyle, nor could I care less about finding out as it doesn't hold an interest for me. that's not to say that I don't hold respect for those that would say they are into the lifestyle, but i'm not about to learn all its whys and wherefores so that i'm considered a proper BDSM'er. each to our own remember.

however, I do have to admit that i'd be far more likely to raise my eyebrows, and roll my eyes if someone turned up to where I was with this 50 shades of crap. we do all have to start somewhere it's true, but i'd rather make my own stuff than have people think that I was following a band wagon. also i'll be right there laughing at any 50soggy telling me i'm doing it wrong because he thinks he's all that now he's 50soggy approved.

needles




JeffBC -> RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- (11/10/2013 9:03:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist
that is what I think you may have missed.

As of this post I think I'm seeing what I missed.

When I read your original post what I thought was some light-hearted ribbing of the vanillas. Now that I see your clarification I know exactly what I'm seeing. You're not the first James Dean wannabe so attached to his counter-culture crown that your very identity is wrapped up in it. Tough for you because it doesn't matter. The rest of the world doesn't care about your self-image and your need to be "alternative".

I'd like to say that I'm sorry my vanilla self is ruining your love life but I'm not. In fact I find that mostly hilarious given all your "commitment" that you talked about in that long-winded diatribe of yours. Honestly, I can cope with torture, blood-letting, human toilets, etc. etc. Attitudes like yours are much less pleasant.

edited to add Carol's response
You know, if all us vanillas are flocking to your parties it isn't because we got hypnotized by a book. It's because the book resonated with us. We didn't all get some zombie apocalypse thought, "must... take... over... kinksters..." Your fears are pretty common and normal. They're just not very well thought out.




MariaB -> RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- (11/10/2013 9:10:56 AM)

I can't believe we have all this fuss over a novel! Novels don't come with a buyer-beware label but if people want to make something real out of that fantasy, providing they are grown ups, lets leave them to it. There were lots of similar novels before 50 Shades, most of them written by Barbara Cartland. About 15 years ago I read a soft porn novel called 'Accidents do Happen' (can't remember the author). That book included a lot of non-consensual BDSM acts including a beating, being held down by a group and raped by a woman in a strap-on and then pissing in the subs mouth. It was a titillating, soft porn fantasy novel that was perhaps a little too shocking for most soccer mums and because its sales were low, it was lost, just like many other novels, into oblivion.

The question that's always on the tip of my tongue is 'why?'. Why did 50 Shades hit record high sales? what was different about this poorly written fantasy novel from the thousands of similar novels that have passed us by? If you want to actually read something about BDSM, there are many books and papers to choose from but before you read those books you may need to spark an interest and light that inner flame and I believe 50 Shades did just that for many thousands of people.

People will take from a fantasy what they want and if that be a little titillation with a 50 Shades flogger, then good for them. If they come here and ask questions, which some of them are bound to do, lets answer them with our accumulated knowledge and if they decide they want to venture further, lets embrace them and be happy that the scene is evolving rather than stagnating.

Very few people here come from the days of gay bath houses and secret covens where they feared being burned as witches if they got caught. Very few would want those days back again.

I consider myself part of the older crowd and I've stood witness to big changes in the scene (long before 50 Shades) I have listened to the people bemoan the 'good old days' and I remind them, the only thing good about those days is, you were in your youth, you had more energy and it was all the more exciting because you were at a stage in your life where you felt like you could conquer the world. We can still have fun but sometimes we have to step aside a little and allow for change without sounding bitter. Every time I hear a BDSM member moan about the damage that novel had done to the scene, I just think, 'Bitter!!'




ChatteParfaitt -> RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- (11/10/2013 9:12:16 AM)

FR:

I put such a different spin of this sort of thing, because I think it's great. Remember, I came up when being homosexual was *illegal* so for me having kink so mainstream is a wonderful thing.

Now, do I think that gear is for light weights? Of course. But we were all light weights once, and we need to remember that.

I'm trying in my old age to accept everyone -- to learn compassion for everyone.

Okay, okay, let's be honest here. *ALMOST* everyone.





AthenaSurrenders -> RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- (11/10/2013 9:17:21 AM)

This all kinda reminds me of the goth kids I used to hang out with when I was fifteen or so. They talked at great length about how they were misunderstood and how hard it was to be different when they were just being true to themselves. Then, whenever goth style clothes or jewelry became mainstream-popular, they would bitch and moan about how people who bought them were just sheep and not true goths and didn't understand and weren't doing it right.

It sucks for you that it was riskier to get into kink back when you did, but it seems that you are desperately trying to defend your outsider status. It's odd to me that you seem to think people shouldn't be encouraged to explore something that appeals to them because they don't have to struggle the way you did.

Maybe 'John and Jane' will go to a play party and be disgusted. Maybe they will feel liberated. Maybe they didn't go looking for this thirty years ago when it was riskier, and maybe there were good reasons for that. It's their own journey, just like you made yours.

Sometimes it feels like some members here have an attitude that those into lighter kink, or bedroom only kink, or vanilla folk, are like children - they are bound to hurt themselves as soon as they start trying to play with the big kids. Actually there have always been idiots long before 50 Shades made it ok for moms to talk about spanking, and still the majority of people are grown up enough to make their own decisions about their sexual and/or kinky activities.

I don't think you're suddenly going to see thousands of people going to play parties and freaking out because it's not like the books. Most people are adult enough to say 'not for me' and bow out (or start their own groups at their own level). It's unlikely that people buying a grey silk blindfold are going to cause a huge backlash against kinksters everywhere.

I don't know much about the leather community, and I understand that more importance is placed on seniority and experience there, but let's be honest. 50 Shades of Grey is not about leather lifestyles. These toys are not marketed as an intro to leather. They're for bedroom fun. In general, I'm in favour of people finding sexual fulfillment.

EDIT: sorry, obviously this wasn't aimed at JeffBC, should've been to RS




SeekingTrinity -> RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- (11/10/2013 9:34:04 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: petitespot

Ya know....I'm pretty sure a huge percentage of us started out exploring this on a "vanilla" bdsm level. We didn't jump right into hardcore, extreme play on day one. At least I didn't. It was a gradual learning experience. Try something. Like it. Try something else a little more extreme. Like it. And so on and so on.

Look at all your judgmental attitudes. Like you were the gods and goddesses of the munch the first day you stepped into the ring.

It doesn't affect my life one fucking bit if anyone buys this stuff. They do it because they're curious. They're starting somewhere. Just like we all did.


I don't think anyone is being judgmental or Godlike in our thinking. I frankly find all of the "BDSM lite" marketed products ridiculous, but that's only because it's highly overpriced and I feel that people are being taken advantage of in the name of greed. You telling me someone NEEDS official Grey gear to begin exploring BDSM? You can actually get everything you need to get started...a hell of a lot cheaper, I might add...at your favorite local store. Officially sanctioned ANYTHING is just ridiculous.

So I make no apologies for laughing about this. It's ridiculous marketing




RedMagic1 -> RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- (11/10/2013 9:42:42 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan

I'll be over here in the corner eating popcorn and wearing a shirt with this on it:

[image]http://i1.cpcache.com/product/731915825/christian_chris_tile_coaster.jpg[/image]


I saw a profile of a woman on another site. She said she was submissive and looking for Christian Grey. I wrote her saying that Grey was a submissive service top. About a week later, I was beating her ass in a hotel room. Over dinner, she told me that I was the only man who had read her profile and really made her think when I wrote her, and that got her interested.




sheisreeds -> RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- (11/10/2013 10:39:00 AM)

There is actually a legitimate fear regarding water down numbers, it's killing the local BDSM community here, right here and now. In my area it was less about 50 Shades (though that wave is probably hitting now), and more about FL. Everyone and their brother and their second cousins twice removed who liked sex and had even thought about spanking or being spanked started flooding the community.

Then people realized they could make money on $$$, when there were low amounts of play then they just started having endless demos, and even burlesque performances to pass the time. In the DUNGEON!!! Seriously I go to play not watch not so hot chicks sorta dance are sorta strip.

The lack of play could reach epic proportions, once the ENTIRE party was crowded into one room watching movies. The primary dungeon rooms were EMPTY except for us and one very pompous silly "domme" though the idiots running the event covered all the lights in the medical area with red cellophane, and had also moved a lot of the lights out of the area. I threw a fit and made sure it was fixed, and discussed at length the potential safety issues for anyone who actually wanted to do medical play, like US.

THEN, yes it gets worse, there were so many people going out there was talk of opening more dungeon spaces. Though hosting a party and running a space are not the same. So while the "community" was flooding to open new spaces, which pretty much all flopped, the space in my city that had been there from the get go folded partially due to lack of support. They needed a new venue due to the building being in poor repair but there wasn't enough interest to reopen due to all the "new venues". There are now no public dungeons in my city unless you include the once a month kink friendly night at the goth club,

Oh, and the regular gatherings are so sprawling and with such lack of focus attendance is starting to drop. Drugs are also a rampant problem. Even some "community leaders" have been known to dabble in selling heroin.

There is one regular even I will go to, and even that one suffers from some over crowding and stand and modeling, but there is a heavy enough focus on real play that it is surviving.

So yeah wannabes can be highly destructive. They piss me off.

Previous influxes at times would change the game, and some did not like it, but there was a committed group that stuck around and towed the line. The hordes of folks who come in through 50 shades, or other large influxes because it's "cool" are like fucking locusts.





OsideGirl -> RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- (11/10/2013 10:47:16 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist
that you couldn't actually hurt anyone with that stuff unless you poked them in the eye with it


Never under estimate the power of stupidity.




KYsissy -> RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- (11/10/2013 10:48:17 AM)

I wish i had thought of it.





DesFIP -> RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- (11/10/2013 11:00:48 AM)

Like Adam & Eve doesn't sell beginner restraints already? As long as it doesn't include screwhooks for suspension, who cares?

The author is doing the intelligent thing and marketing a line to fill a need. No more foolish than the makers of Monster Inc licensing a line of furry monsters.




JeffBC -> RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- (11/10/2013 11:27:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sheisreeds
Previous influxes at times would change the game, and some did not like it, but there was a committed group that stuck around and towed the line. The hordes of folks who come in through 50 shades, or other large influxes because it's "cool" are like fucking locusts.

If your "committed group" can be so easily overrun then it has no coherent existence to start with. It was already dead and nobody had noticed. Otherwise, all that would happen is the "oh I'm so serious" types would be forming their own "I'm so serious" play parties. Put more succinctly, you don't like something then fix it. If you can't fix it then leave it alone. But avoid blaming the rest of humanity for your problems.




MariaB -> RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- (11/10/2013 11:40:56 AM)

Its interesting how we work out the blame for shit.

London has become a bit of a nightmare when it comes to BDSM clubs. A city that not so long ago, had several regular clubs going on every Friday and Saturday, has dwindled down to a couple of clubs a month. The fetish scene however, has taken off in all its glory and although a fet club doesn’t put its highest priority on dungeon space, your guaranteed a good night out in a packed club with a big crowd of young and very open minded people.

As an ex promoter of a large and very successful BDSM club in the heart of London, I will openly admit that to survive, we had to have fetish attractions. There just weren’t enough BDSM people wanting to come out and spend money. They always verbally supported us, they always told us they were coming along but over all it was the fet crowd who we relied on to make up the numbers. Having worked closely with both the fet crowd and the BDSM crowd I will say this, fet people tend to look at a night out as something exciting, new, fun and friendly. For them its all about the dressing up, the carnival atmosphere and being gregarious. Many BDSM folk (generally an older crowd) complain about entry fees, complain about the price of drinks or how other players are playing and doing it all wrong. They complain that the music is too loud, too soft, not their cup of tea and they complain that someone is sitting at the table they normally like to sit at. In all honesty I find many of the BDSM crowd stuffy and boring.

The younger crowd, at least in London, are now setting up their own private nights. They don’t want a club full of old fogies, they don’t want the rules set in place and have to follow club standards. We have been to some of these parties, even though we are considered ‘old’! and they are absolutely not our thing because it seems to me, what the younger crowd like is, extremely hard core BDSM without limits and then a big gangbang to finish the night off. Even the fetish crowd are more hardcore than most of my generation BDSMers.

The new crowd is coming through, like it or not and gradually the older, perhaps more sensible crowd are being pushed to the outer corners. We can’t fight that, I doubt we can change it and if we don’t want to join in, then we must accept that pure BDSM clubs will get more and more diluted.

This has nothing to do with 50 Shades or any other raunchy novel that's hit the shelves. Its all to do with a new generation of kinksters who think our rules are antiquated and because this new crowd has hit us on mass, we are looking in every direction to pin blame. Nobody is to blame, it is what it is because times just change with the years.






sheisreeds -> RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- (11/10/2013 11:50:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: sheisreeds
Previous influxes at times would change the game, and some did not like it, but there was a committed group that stuck around and towed the line. The hordes of folks who come in through 50 shades, or other large influxes because it's "cool" are like fucking locusts.

If your "committed group" can be so easily overrun then it has no coherent existence to start with. It was already dead and nobody had noticed. Otherwise, all that would happen is the "oh I'm so serious" types would be forming their own "I'm so serious" play parties. Put more succinctly, you don't like something then fix it. If you can't fix it then leave it alone. But avoid blaming the rest of humanity for your problems.


We did, but there is so much damage done, thus the event I'm involved in every month. Numbers screw things up. Alt communities are built on a premise of inclusiveness, which gets abused. It's how they die.

I did try to help, and help stop it. Though when hard drugs got involved, I had to say fuck this.

Sane people unfortunately for practical reasons cannot stick around when things go crazy.

Leadership roles tend to go to the less than totally upstanding an sane individuals in alt communities since they need to be able to to have the time and the ability to be "out" to make things happen. The more people involved in a community the more this becomes true. More people = more time and publicity. Good people often have to leave leadership positions because they cannot give the time, or have the publicity due to their careers, etc.

The people who are left to "lead" tend to care about quantity vs quality. People who are there to be seen and not to scene don't give a shit about education, rules, etc, and breakdowns happen to keep the masses happy.

Good people also go bad at times when they get too much attention.

Lots of things lead to co-opting and collapse.

Procedures that used to work well also break down w/ too high of numbers, and organizations can't keep up. Vetting works great with a small to medium sized community. When that community reaches gargantuan proportions in less than a year everyone can get vetted without breaking a sweat. Organizers are flooded by requests, and are met with mass amounts of criticism when they try and crack down.

Because at that point what do you do? Do you say you have to be vetted by certain people in order to join? Then it all goes elitist.

And the groups that don't get bloated with newcomers, suffer just as much in different ways, some of the older groups in the area remain the same but their numbers are dwindling and they are barely operational at this point.

Right now we are all just waiting for the fire to go out, and maintaining what is worthwhile.




KYsissy -> RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- (11/10/2013 11:58:02 AM)

So to sum up, it's "those crazy kids! We never did that back in my day!!!"

Sorry, i just had to. Interesting take you posted. And I completely understand all points of view. But the bottom line is if you have a club you like, support it. Even the private clubs will have bills to pay and if push comes to shove it will be close up shop, or get the spending crowd in.




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