RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=-

RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- (Full Version)

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JeffBC -> RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- (11/10/2013 2:41:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RedMagic1 Also, is service-topping somehow dirty in your eyes? chuckles I'm pretty comfortable with the label "service master". Near as I can tell, the word "service" means "I do nice shit for people I care about" and I'm way fine with that.

KnightofMists -> RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- (11/10/2013 2:42:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt I think the main problem some are experiencing is rank newbies taking over play or dungeon space, not following the rules and protocols in place, and not respecting others. I think this is a reasonable point. But I see this the same as topping from the bottom. I put that problem squarely on the shoulders of the Top that allows it. If it is acceptable... Then quit complaining about it and let it happen. If it's nt acceptable quit complaining and do something about it.

RedMagic1 -> RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- (11/10/2013 2:52:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JeffBC chuckles I'm pretty comfortable with the label "service master". Amateur. You are supposed to feel more discomfort so the true D/s'ers enjoy a feast of newbie schadenfreude.

JeffBC -> RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- (11/10/2013 2:57:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists I think this is a reasonable point. But I see this the same as topping from the bottom. I put that problem squarely on the shoulders of the Top that allows it. If it is acceptable... Then quit complaining about it and let it happen. If it's nt acceptable quit complaining and do something about it. This is a part I don't fully understand. OK, I get that an influx of newbies can be a problem. But what of all these scions of the community... these super masters and alpha males and whatnot? Why aren't they... you know... managing this? Lord knows if I felt the need to have some community here then I'd go ahead and take over and existing one and turn it to my purposes or create a new one as seemed most appropriate. I'd have no qualms about setting both rules and "tone" and I would not feel particularly obligated to be inclusive. My party. My rules. Then again, I also wouldn't be trying to make a living off of BDSM so I could afford to treat it as a party rather than a night club.

HoneyBears -> RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- (11/10/2013 3:00:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RedMagic1 Wait, what? If I don't meet a woman in real life within a week or so of first email, I move on. And I've met more than one woman through kinky online dating. (There is an exception to this, which is when air travel is involved and we want to mutually plan a few days together.) You are welcome to use more slut-shaming language in your next post, if it makes you feel superior to me and you need that in your life, but I am comfortable with my kink and sex life. I honestly don't understand your snarky response. I was trying to show that people respond well when you challenge their 50-Shades notion of BDSM, and ask them to engage in something more. Why rage against the dying of the light when you can make sparks with the new sun that is rising? Also, is service-topping somehow dirty in your eyes? I didn't say anything about what she and I did together. But if I am directing traffic, and I do something I enjoy, and she enjoys it as well, who exactly is the loser here? You? Hey, chill out, no need to be touchy. Sorry if you took this to be snarky. Yes, your point was apropos. Along the 50 Shades theme, with all the horny, desperate housewives out there, have at it. If you had hooked up with her for play at a BDSM event or dungeon party, taking appropriate STD precautions is almost a given. Surely you and she must have exchanged proper testing certifications for being STD-free during this one-week e-mail exchange before hooking up in a hotel room. We apologize for making you feel judged and for jumping to the wrong conclusions. You are a big boy. Do what you will. There is absolutely nothing wrong with service tops. This is not foreign to us in any way, shape or form. I will tell you what. I shall have my boy top me tonight, as a measure of good faith. He used to be a submissive service top and is out of practice. [;)]

JeffBC -> RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- (11/10/2013 3:00:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RedMagic1 Amateur. You are supposed to feel more discomfort so the true D/s'ers enjoy a feast of newbie schadenfreude. Yes well, as we all know here on collarme there are a HOST of things a good dom is supposed to do that I'm not very interested in. Although in the interests of giving something back to the community I suppose I could find at least some discomfort about the idea that I do nice things for the woman I love. No wait... no I can't.

RedMagic1 -> RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- (11/10/2013 3:03:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HoneyBears Surely you and she must have exchanged proper testing certifications for being STD-free during this one-week e-mail exchange before hooking up in a hotel room. We apologize for making you feel judged and for jumping to the wrong conclusions. The level of passive-aggressiveness in these two sentences is almost ironic. Is that really how you'd like to represent yourself on a worldwide forum?

sheisreeds -> RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- (11/10/2013 3:11:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists I completely agree. A lot of people ego and personal identity is tied to this lifestyle. I can't say I get that. My identity is tied to who I am within and not what I do or anyone else does to me or other wise. But some... Their identity is very much about what they do and who they associate with. For them I guess I can understand why all the newbies coming in or people changing how things happen will be troubling for them. Myself.... I don't give that kind of power to people about my ego or identity. I guess I am abit of a micro manager in this regard. So I am, but I like public play, I like knowing other kinky people. I like watching other kinky people. So when my community becomes unsafe because of hordes of people who think they know what they're doing start causing cops to come out, people od'ing, and all the other nonsense, and I'm asked if the public interest is a good thing, right now it sure is not. It's sad that we have to carefully screen events we go to, as there are a handful of dangerous people who have their hand in everything. A public entity can only hold so much bullshit. While I agree that 50 Shades, and other pop culture events go a long way towards acceptance, there is damage done elsewhere. Many of us BTW who are "old timers" are hiding out, and when we go out we do not want to be recognized. It was so damn refreshing last week to have nearly no one know who we are. So the whole loss of infamy, really applies to a few, most people I know just want a safe place to play and limited drama. The reality is a public dungeon based community can only accommodate so many people, because play is either allowed in a venue or it isn't. For safety reasons alone that is the case. For everyone saying do something about it? When you go from being a hundred to over a thousand in less than a year it's really hard. Now in my city at least we're on the other side of that and the regular weekly meet-ups, not parties, that were regularly getting over 150 people flooding into venues, are now down into the 30s and rapidly dropping. Though right now nothing new can be started without risks, no joke, some people who have spoken up about how things are running now have received death threats, threats of being outted, etc. So those of us who disagree have to do things outside the city. I just read this to my partner to make sure I wasn't exaggerating, and we both agreed it is ridiculous that this really is the situation around here. Hopefully in another 6 months to a year that everything will be settled down, and we can start picking up the pieces.

RedMagic1 -> RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- (11/10/2013 3:13:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JeffBC Although in the interests of giving something back to the community I suppose I could find at least some discomfort about the idea that I do nice things for the woman I love. No wait... no I can't. Well ok, here's a serious question. Where does True Master stop and service master begin? I think the reason 50 Shades rubs a lot of lifestyle people the wrong way is that Grey was emotionally subordinate to the woman, needed her more than she needed him. It's sort of like a codependent relationship where the shoe is on the other foot: the "abuser" is the one who can't leave. So the pushback from that is, "In a real BDSM relationship, the person who appears to be in charge is, in fact, the person in charge."

KnightofMists -> RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- (11/10/2013 3:26:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JeffBC quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists I think this is a reasonable point. But I see this the same as topping from the bottom. I put that problem squarely on the shoulders of the Top that allows it. If it is acceptable... Then quit complaining about it and let it happen. If it's nt acceptable quit complaining and do something about it. This is a part I don't fully understand. OK, I get that an influx of newbies can be a problem. But what of all these scions of the community... these super masters and alpha males and whatnot? Why aren't they... you know... managing this? Lord knows if I felt the need to have some community here then I'd go ahead and take over and existing one and turn it to my purposes or create a new one as seemed most appropriate. I'd have no qualms about setting both rules and "tone" and I would not feel particularly obligated to be inclusive. My party. My rules. Then again, I also wouldn't be trying to make a living off of BDSM so I could afford to treat it as a party rather than a night club. Perspective is everything! I appreciate your perspective of leadership is very much formed by the business world. I get that as well! However, the leadership of these coumminities are often not cut from that kind of leadership. To me these leaders of the lifestyle communities is more on par of those volunteer organizations that parents get involved with because of thier kids. They have a lot of emotions at stake as well as egos and sometimes their leadership positions is often because no one else steps forward. Actual results being a measure to their ability to lead is secondary. It more about being mr popular with everyone. In the business world an influx of new employees don't change the dynamics of the leadership. But a good leader needs to beable to mole and direct them successfully to do what needs to Done to get the desired results. Employees also come in expecting to follow the boss as well. Their are advantages! I been there when my work force doubled in size to new people! It became even more challenging when my experienced employee was matched by three plus new employees. But that pales in comparison to a group of people that come in and don't have those expectations attached. The dynamics of leadership changes dramatically. Been there to when I had to lead a Condominium organization that had some very serious issues to deal with like a 60 % deliquencey condo fee rate to just name one. I definitely find leading in the business work much easier than in any volunteer situation. As a note, I did involve myself in bringing about the play organization with a community I use to live in. The dynamics of these communities are complex and the skill sets of the leaders are often not the skills needed to be successful for the communities sake. But a lot of reps have been built on the backs of communities.

JeffBC -> RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- (11/10/2013 3:28:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RedMagic1 Well ok, here's a serious question. Where does True Master stop and service master begin? I think the reason 50 Shades rubs a lot of lifestyle people the wrong way is that Grey was emotionally subordinate to the woman, needed her more than she needed him. It's sort of like a codependent relationship where the shoe is on the other foot: the "abuser" is the one who can't leave. So the pushback from that is, "In a real BDSM relationship, the person who appears to be in charge is, in fact, the person in charge." Don't know. Don't care. I couldn't even begin to tell you. I'm the first to admit that I don't actually understand what BDSM people mean by words like "dominate", "submit", "control", "power", "authority", etc. My viewpoints and definitions come from the business section of the bookstore not the kink section. And in the real world the concept of "leadership as service" is generally held in high regard. Your entire question is phrased from a conceptual model that I don't grasp and have no real interest in grasping. Near as I can tell it ties into some sort of sex thing not a power thing and I'm uninterested in the faux-power stuff.

HoneyBears -> RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- (11/10/2013 3:32:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RedMagic1 quote: ORIGINAL: HoneyBears Surely you and she must have exchanged proper testing certifications for being STD-free during this one-week e-mail exchange before hooking up in a hotel room. We apologize for making you feel judged and for jumping to the wrong conclusions. The level of passive-aggressiveness in these two sentences is almost ironic. Is that really how you'd like to represent yourself on a worldwide forum? All right then, we sincerely apologize for making you feel judged and for jumping to the wrong conclusions. Your lack of denial (passive-aggressive side-stepping?) speaks volumes. You are calling more attention to what might have been a relatively insignificant issue. "Is that really how you'd like to represent yourself on a worldwide forum?" [:)] Dejà vu signature line moment: "Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word."

RedMagic1 -> RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- (11/10/2013 3:36:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JeffBC Your entire question is phrased from a conceptual model that I don't grasp and have no real interest in grasping. Near as I can tell it ties into some sort of sex thing not a power thing and I'm uninterested in the faux-power stuff. Well, yes. I tend to see the world through a power grid myself, and I tend to think that lifestyle organizations are to power as Star Trek conventions are to space travel. Though I don't usually express myself quite like that, because I think it is undiplomatic. The 50 Shades Angst in this thread seems to boil down to a couple things: people who want to engage in a particular type of exhibitionism and are finding that harder to do; or people who want a particular type of sexual and relationship clarity that requires them to measure themselves against the sexual and relationship practices of others.

sheisreeds -> RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- (11/10/2013 3:37:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists I definitely find leading in the business work much easier than in any volunteer situation. As a note, I did involve myself in bringing about the play organization with a community I use to live in. The dynamics of these communities are complex and the skill sets of the leaders are often not the skills needed to be successful for the communities sake. But a lot of reps have been built on the backs of communities. The primary difference between the business world and a volunteer situation is that in the business world new employees are there to work, at a public event, even if there was a prior expectation of active involvement and participation, when it's over run by people who don't have those values you can't just fire them.

JeffBC -> RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- (11/10/2013 3:38:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists Perspective is everything! I appreciate your perspective of leadership is very much formed by the business world. Fair enough. I just said the same thing in answer to Red's question below. Although I have to say that I manage a volunteer org now and I don't find the problem dramatically different. I still have to "earn my chops" as the leader. I still have to build loyalty. I still have to provide motivation and inspiration. I still have to paint a clear and compelling vision. I still have to deal with all the interpersonal drama. Honestly, it doesn't seem all that different than doing the same in a massive grey cubicle farm in corporate america. Personally I think we're talking about the difference between the word "dominant" in the social sense I use it in and the kink sense BDSM people use it in. I am not a dominant in the kinky sense. Hell, I have some hangups in that area that are, at times, crippling. So some kinky woman looking for me to take them on a wild ride is barking up the wrong tree. The social problem being presented here, though, is right up my alley and seems like child's play compared to other problems I have dealt with.

RedMagic1 -> RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- (11/10/2013 3:41:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HoneyBears Your lack of denial Why should I respond to a veiled accusation you make? Are we in a dynamic? How is it the business of anyone reading this thread whether I know someone's medical status? I chose to reveal a certain amount of private information in order to tell a parable about how to use the 50 Shades phenomenon to one's advantage. Why am I then beholden to you to reveal more?

RedMagic1 -> RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- (11/10/2013 3:52:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sheisreeds The primary difference between the business world and a volunteer situation is that in the business world new employees are there to work, at a public event, even if there was a prior expectation of active involvement and participation, when it's over run by people who don't have those values you can't just fire them. My two cents (and after that I will have to leave the thread for a while): The #1 leadership difference between leadership of employees and leadership of volunteers is that, with volunteers, having a shared goal and leading by example become far more important. Volunteers need to be very clear on why they are there, big picture, and they need to feel inspired by and able to emulate the leadership team. It sounds as though you are describing the lack of a shared goal -- competing goals, even. How are you recruiting volunteers? That is the process I would try to change, if I had the problem you describe.

HoneyBears -> RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- (11/10/2013 3:55:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RedMagic1 Why should I respond to a veiled accusation you make? Are we in a dynamic? How is it the business of anyone reading this thread whether I know someone's medical status? I chose to reveal a certain amount of private information in order to tell a parable about how to use the 50 Shades phenomenon to one's advantage. Why am I then beholden to you to reveal more? Nobody asked you to justify anything, in the spirit of ribbing. You took it upon yourself to get on the defensive. A portion of this thread deals with how more experienced BDSMers are not too thrilled with the direction others are taking. Not taking SSC seriously. Setting the right example for newcomers. You could be Joe-Shmo for all we care. No disrespect was intended. You over-reacted. Go back to being a cool dude--no hard feelings.

JeffBC -> RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- (11/10/2013 3:59:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RedMagic1 Why should I respond to a veiled accusation you make? You shouldn't. I have no idea what's going on here but it seems to have little or nothing to do with you. I have to admit I don't even understand what the accusation is against you. Either that or maybe my naivete in health issues is showing but honestly I'd let you spank Carol without STD testing. I mean... unless you were planning on spanking her pussy with your cock I'm not sure I understand the risk involved.

sheisreeds -> RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- (11/10/2013 4:04:24 PM)
quote: It sounds as though you are describing the lack of a shared goal -- competing goals, even. How are you recruiting volunteers? That is the process I would try to change, if I had the problem you describe. The problem is that they are not volunteers. It is attendees. Key difference. Also, at an open meet-up. It would be great if recruitment were a problem, instead it's hundreds of people popping up out of no where, and tons of independent groups hosting, and opening venues with little respect or regard for a sense of community but for notoriety and money. And the majority of the attendees do not show much interest or regard for BDSM, D/s, community, but are there for the spectacle, and leave once their bored. Thankfully, it looks like one of the main offenders, who actually used to be a good friend and good person once upon a time, has been run out of town for not paying folks. I think what people are missing here is the sheer size of the influx, and how fast it was. And how ruinous.

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