RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- (Full Version)

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AthenaSurrenders -> RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- (11/11/2013 5:52:12 AM)


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ORIGINAL: MariaB


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ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders


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ORIGINAL: MariaB

The best had to be in Prague though. I found an outdoor market with BDSM stall right next to a baby clothes stall.


Makes perfect sense to me, that's how I got knocked up. [:D]


I'm intrigued... do tell?!?!


*L* sorry I just meant the purchase of BDSM kit resulted in the need to purchase baby clothes. My daughter will never know how incredibly kinky her conception was. I hope.




JeffBC -> RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- (11/11/2013 6:31:36 AM)

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ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders
quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB
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ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders
quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB
The best had to be in Prague though. I found an outdoor market with BDSM stall right next to a baby clothes stall.

Makes perfect sense to me, that's how I got knocked up. [:D]

I'm intrigued... do tell?!?!

*L* sorry I just meant the purchase of BDSM kit resulted in the need to purchase baby clothes. My daughter will never know how incredibly kinky her conception was. I hope.

PRICELESS! What a great thread set of posts to wake up to LOL.




MariaB -> RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- (11/11/2013 6:42:36 AM)

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ORIGINAL: Apocalypso

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ORIGINAL: MariaB
Different end of the spectrum. Where I live, if you drive around in a flash car you are very much frowned upon. When a friend from the north recently picked me up in her open top merc, I pretended I'd lost something in the foot-well until we were well out of site of my neighbours!!


Oh, god, yeah. We'll put up with pretty much anything in Yorkshire, as long as you don't commit the unforgivable sin of acting "a bit flash".



I was talking about southern France [;)] I was born in Yorkshire though!

quote:

ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders

*L* sorry I just meant the purchase of BDSM kit resulted in the need to purchase baby clothes. My daughter will never know how incredibly kinky her conception was. I hope.


Fantastic!!




JeffBC -> RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- (11/11/2013 6:56:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB
I've always been able to take the London scene for granted, its the same in Paris. Nobody bats an eyelid in either city if someone walks around on a collar and leash, in latex or at cross dressers.

ROFL, and yet I became some sort of awful person on these very boards here because I put Carol in a collar and leash and took her to a nice restaurant in town. I was "violating the consent of strangers". Yup, that's the prevalent American attitude. Me for crying out loud... arguably the most vanilla person on these boards. I'm the guy who riles up vanillas? You shouldn't need to "comprehend" this... you've seen the posts on these very boards.

For the record, I remain content with my awfulness. I obeyed the law. I expected (and expect) others to do the same. I don't need some sort of secret BDSM handshake and code of conduct to figure out how to interact with strangers. That's what we have laws for.




UllrsIshtar -> RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- (11/11/2013 7:02:15 AM)


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ORIGINAL: JeffBC

ROFL, and yet I became some sort of awful person on these very boards here because I put Carol in a collar and leash and took her to a nice restaurant in town. I was "violating the consent of strangers". Yup, that's the prevalent American attitude. Me for crying out loud... arguably the most vanilla person on these boards. I'm the guy who riles up vanillas? You shouldn't need to "comprehend" this... you've seen the posts on these very boards.

For the record, I remain content with my awfulness. I obeyed the law. I expected (and expect) others to do the same. I don't need some sort of secret BDSM handshake and code of conduct to figure out how to interact with strangers. That's what we have laws for.



Hell yes to that. I've been chastised on this board -by Americans- because I sunbath in my backyard topless (if it were Europe I'd do it naked).

And that's with a closed backyard that's fenced with a 6 foot fence on all sides.

Now of course, the neighbor kids have a pendency to climb trees, and when they do, they can look over the fece, so I've been accused of engaging in sexually inappropriate behavior with minors, because I do something completely innocent and a 100% legal, while the neighbors are refusing to keep their little snots in hand (deliberately peeking into a closed of back yard is not legal here, btw).

If it's legal, you don't need "the consent of strangers" because those strangers HAVE already given consent to anything that can legally go on in a public place by virtue of them BEING in that public place.

If you don't want to be confronted by somebody wearing a collar and leash in public, then stay home. But don't expect other people to curtail their behavior just because you happen to not like it.




AthenaSurrenders -> RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- (11/11/2013 7:04:43 AM)

For the record, I'm both English and kinky and I would have a hard time not staring if I saw someone on a leash outside (other than during gay pride when anything goes). I wouldn't be traumatised or distressed, but I'd certainly think 'what an attention seeker'.




ChatteParfaitt -> RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- (11/11/2013 7:09:08 AM)

That is the prevailing attitude here in the US, that *any* display of overt sexuality is impinging on other's rights.

I know CD's here in Indiana who will not cross dress and go out, b/c they are mortified of being 'outed' in public. As if they didn't have a right to be Cross Dressers. I'm sure there is fear of what other people might say or do, including violence.

I admit I don't go along with this prevailing view.

I'm a bit of an exhibitionist, and have had sex in public, been nude in public, and taken my kink out to the public on more than one occasion.

It mystifies me that in a nation where violent TV is the norm, people think youngsters would be traumatized if they saw a flash of tit or whatever.

Sex is a natural, normal, thing, it's how we all got here. But in the US, the attitude is to keep that indoors, and this is most especially true in the Bible Belt.

BTW: I want to take the time to thank the mods for letting this thread drift off topic in an organic way much like a conversation among friends. So: THANKS MODS !!










AthenaSurrenders -> RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- (11/11/2013 7:12:09 AM)

I do totally agree with you about violence being ok but sex being taboo. Very odd. It always baffles me when folks let their kids watch action movies with people being shot and blow up, but not a movie with someone topless in it. I'd much rather my kids be exposed to nudity than violence.




ChatteParfaitt -> RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- (11/11/2013 7:15:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders

I do totally agree with you about violence being ok but sex being taboo. Very odd. It always baffles me when folks let their kids watch action movies with people being shot and blow up, but not a movie with someone topless in it. I'd much rather my kids be exposed to nudity than violence.



This was always my attitude when raising the kids.

I was *extremely* strict about violence, but really didn't care about them seeing nudity in a movie. Nudity was common in our home. We didn't run around flaunting ourselves, or having sex in front of the kids, but they were taught that sex and nudity was natural, normal, and that violence was wrong. Very much *NOT* the way you handle your problems.





UllrsIshtar -> RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- (11/11/2013 7:35:14 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders

I do totally agree with you about violence being ok but sex being taboo. Very odd. It always baffles me when folks let their kids watch action movies with people being shot and blow up, but not a movie with someone topless in it. I'd much rather my kids be exposed to nudity than violence.


Lol on that note, I was baffled the other day when I ordered one of my all time favorite movies from when I was a little girl, to watch with the kids, and it showed up with an R rating.

Apparently "The Blue Lagoon" is considered damaging to young minds here, while in Belgium, where it has a PG rating, it still get's shown on Saturday afternoon on kid stations. [:D]




JeffBC -> RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- (11/11/2013 7:59:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders
For the record, I'm both English and kinky and I would have a hard time not staring if I saw someone on a leash outside (other than during gay pride when anything goes). I wouldn't be traumatised or distressed, but I'd certainly think 'what an attention seeker'.

*chuckles* That'd be a fine thought... not what was going on with Carol and I but a fine thought. I just resist the idea that I'm an awful person simply because I choose to exercise my rights. I reject the idea that everyone else's [unstated and unwritten] rights trump my own.




ChatteParfaitt -> RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- (11/11/2013 8:03:29 AM)

A great example of what a vast difference there is in sexual openness when comparing the US to Europe or the UK.




AthenaSurrenders -> RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- (11/11/2013 8:12:20 AM)

I know what you're saying but context is important. Walking through the city streets, dressed normally except for the leash, I'm gonna think you're quirky or an attention seeker. Walking through the city in a leash and overtly sexual costumes I'm gonna think you're getting off on people seeing you that way and that's going to make me uncomfortable. Visit the old folks home in a leash, regardless of clothes, I'm going to assume you are deliberately trying to upset them and I'm going to be mad. I assume you were doing the first example.

For me, it's not seeing evidence of someone's lifestyle that is inappropriate. It's the not-so-subtle implication that the public are playing a role in your sex game. If you're getting off on me being uncomfortable, or deliberately provoking a negative reaction in someone for your own sexual gratification, that's crossing the line, in my opinion.




JeffBC -> RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- (11/11/2013 8:22:21 AM)

LOL, post removed due to needless pot stirring and total tangent to "playing like Grey".




ChatteParfaitt -> RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- (11/11/2013 8:31:28 AM)

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My intention was to demonstrate to Carol that I could, in fact, control random strangers in random situations with a fair degree of precision.


You and I think so much alike at times, it's scary. I've been practicing the art of controlling random strangers in random situations since I was about two. But then, I was precocious !


(And never forget, humble.)




JeffBC -> RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- (11/11/2013 8:34:38 AM)

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ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt
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My intention was to demonstrate to Carol that I could, in fact, control random strangers in random situations with a fair degree of precision.

You and I think so much alike at times, it's scary. I've been practicing the art of controlling random strangers in random situations since I was about two. But then, I was precocious !

LOL... and damnit here I had just removed that post because without all the background it sounds different than reality. So now I'd better qualify.

When I speak about "D/s" I'm talking about the primal stuff that's written into all of us. It requires no consent or agreement. It is exchanged almost entirely in non-verbal communication... body language, tone of voice, etc. My point to Carol was simply that by projecting the right "vibes" others would react in predictable ways. If she gave off a victim vibe then others would get all riled. If we both gave off the "Just two adults having a tiny bit of fun out on the town" vibe then others would see it the same way.

This is, invariably, the sort of D/s I talk about. This thing that happens with agreements and consent has never been of much interest to me.




UllrsIshtar -> RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- (11/11/2013 8:36:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders

For me, it's not seeing evidence of someone's lifestyle that is inappropriate. It's the not-so-subtle implication that the public are playing a role in your sex game. If you're getting off on me being uncomfortable, or deliberately provoking a negative reaction in someone for your own sexual gratification, that's crossing the line, in my opinion.


The problem with that is the presumption that you're entitled to feel uncomfortable to a degree that your discomfort should bear an impact on somebody else doing something 100% legal.

You have consented to witnessing people doing legal stuff by being in a public space. The fact that some legal stuff makes you uncomfortable is absolutely irrelevant, and your upsetness is an offensive infringement on other people's lives, especially when coupled with action to attempt to prevent somebody else from exercising their rights.

Some people are uncomfortable by seeing babies breastfeed, or by seeing gay men hold hands, or by seeing couples kiss passionately around kids, or by seeing women show their calfs, and arms in public, or by seeing people dressed in goth apparel, wearing leashes and collars, or seeing people in fetish gear, potentially doing something with a sexual undertone.

The problem all that is when the person being uncomfortable turns to the assumption that because they are uncomfortable it must be that the person engaging in the discomforting behavior is doing this on purpose in order to make you uncomfortable.

That's nonsense. It's not because somebody chooses to engage in a legal activity that makes you uncomfortable that they are doing it to make you uncomfortable, and your assumption that it is is not only plain wrong, but offensive.

In public, you HAVE the consent of strangers to be a witness to your BDSM relationship, as long as your display of said relationship falls within the bounds of what is legal in that jurisdiction.

The old folkes home has a right to refuse you access to the premisses if you show up in apparel that they think will be upsetting to their residence. But those same old folkes do not have the right to not be confronted with a guy dressed in a latex pony play outfit, running circles in a public park.




LadyPact -> RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- (11/11/2013 8:49:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB
Don't you guys have fetish clubs?
The UK has numerous large fetish clubs, Torture Garden being the largest.

Fetish clubs, at least in the UK, tend to attract anyone from your full on rubberist to people who have a vague interest in kink and want to see what its all about. I have DM'd for Torture Garden when there's been 2 thousand people through the door, 500 of which are scrambling over the dungeon furniture in a giggly fashion. Its just about impossible to DM a place like that. At best you can keep people from sitting on the dungeon equipment and watch out for bodily fluids. The people who venture as far as the dungeon in these sort of clubs are curious but not overly into anything much beyond a bit of bondage and a light flogging. Those more serious wouldn't dream of touching the dungeon in such a club.

Although you do see some wide eyed folks in the BDSM clubs, fooling around and doing things like touching without permission, trying to join in a scene uninvited or generally being daft just doesn't happen. Rules have to be abided by or that punter is out on his ear. If the 50 shades crowd went along to most London BDSM clubs they would be shocked, repulsed and probably traumatized for life!! In a fet club, with much more of a party atmosphere, the 50 Shades crowd would be able to explore to their hearts content without restriction.

Just for fun, I thought it might be interesting for you to hear the huge difference between your past experience and Mine here.

In Alaska, there is no permanent public club/dungeon in the entire state. Some folks, like Me, have something set up in their home. However, if you want to do a community dungeon, it goes something like this.

First, you have to find a venue to rent. You're going to need that venue for at least a 24 hour period. Typically, you want something that will be open to you from at least noon on Saturday until noon the next day. That's a fairly difficult task just to get that far because you have to find venue owners that are going to leave you the heck alone for that time period.

On the morning of your community dungeon, you start the process of gathering the things you will need to turn whatever space you've rented into a play area. (Keep in mind, I'm a bum and generally not involved in this part because we live about 100 miles away.) Some of the dungeon furniture, decorations, etc belong to the group as a whole. Other stuff, you have to run around town and 'borrow' from individual members of the community. If somebody who is attending that owns a pick-up truck is willing to be a part of this, that's how you get everything to your rented space. If not, you rent a U-Haul.

Hopefully, you get the first load of stuff to your rented space around noon. Other volunteers meet you at the rented space and assist in the process of setting up. Dungeon furniture gets put together, decorations get put up, lights so you can have a certain kind of ambiance. This continues, more or less, until you have your finished 'play space' around 6:00 PM. Your volunteers are come and go, mostly because they have to shower and change. You have other volunteers that set up your social area, deal with food, and whatever other amenities you are going to provide. Usually, the main person doing that shopped and did all the food preparation between Friday and Saturday to have it ready by 6:00 PM.

Your dungeon opens at 6:00 PM and is open until around 3:00 AM. You and your first volunteers have been running full steam since early morning the prior day. Some will crash at the dungeon because you've got until noon to complete the process of doing everything in reverse. Take the dungeon furniture apart, remove decorations, clean up whatever mess you've made and restore the place to the condition it was in before you started.

Think I don't miss the public clubs that are just open every weekend? Oh My Gosh, do I ever!





MasterCaneman -> RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- (11/11/2013 8:52:49 AM)

This thread has taken a fascinating turn. I posted on the first page about how I compared to this to the 'gentrification' of the motorcycling community. While I still hold that position, it's interesting to note how others view this, especially in their individual cultural contexts.

I base my opinion of the fact that I entered the scene in one of the most restrictive environments in the US, Salt Lake City, where both the gay and BDSM scene were deeply underground communities for a number of reasons. You didn't get in unless you knew someone or were recommended by someone known and trusted. This applied for anyone, even people on the periphery like myself.

It wasn't so much they feared exposure (although many players did have valid reasons about that), but many preferred being a member of a 'secret society'. I worked in a number of clubs and bars that were covertly 'scene'-friendly, but you had to look very close to see what was going on, if it were permitted. A lot of the action occurred in the hundreds (if not thousands) of illegal 'social clubs' that dotted the Wasatch Frontier. Speakeasies lived on in Utah well into the 1990's, and you had to know someone.

The fetish club I base a lot of my experience on didn't "officially" exist except as a string of temporary liquor licenses and tax forms that changed names and officers every six months. It had no external sign nor any advertising. The phone number was listed under a cryptic acronym that also changed every time a new phone book came out. Why? Because it suited the membership and owners to conduct themselves this way. In secret.

Secrecy in itself is an intoxicating sensation. When you're given a secret, it's a chemical thrill-fest in your brain that you know something someone else doesn't. It was part of the thrill for me, a huge part to be honest. It'd be a rush when I saw someone I knew from the club out in the real world, and we'd make eye contact and only the two of us knew about it. Huge rush there. The same used to said about the riding fraternity. Once, it was the exclusive domain of the outlaw biker, intimidating, overwhelming, and raw. Now, any schmuck with a line of credit can throw their leg over a Harley and pretend they're that. For me, it lost the appeal of being and doing one.

I fear the overt commercialization of the scene for this same reason. I like the sense that what I do (or used to do, anyway) was something dark and secret, only accessible to a select few. Now, I go the mall (rarely), and within the space of an hour, see a dozen or more people wearing BDSM-themed apparel. This cheapens the effect the scene has on me, makes it less 'edgy', if that's a word.




Apocalypso -> RE: -=Now y'all wannabes can "play like Grey"=- (11/11/2013 9:10:35 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar
The problem with that is the presumption that you're entitled to feel uncomfortable to a degree that your discomfort should bear an impact on somebody else doing something 100% legal.

You have consented to witnessing people doing legal stuff by being in a public space. The fact that some legal stuff makes you uncomfortable is absolutely irrelevant, and your upsetness is an offensive infringement on other people's lives, especially when coupled with action to attempt to prevent somebody else from exercising their rights.

Yes and no.

I'd agree totally that nobody has the right not to be offended and what that means in practise is that nobody has the right to outlaw what other people are doing.

On the other hand, I disagree that people don't also have the right to react to that as they want (within the law, obviously), including being upset. People can do what they want. I can take the piss if I want to. Having the right to an action isn't the same thing as having a right to an entirely consequence action; that's one-sided special pleading.

I've never been a believer in YKIOK, as you can probably tell. I prefer to go for "I won't actively stop you doing what you want, even if I think it's dumb".




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