RE: Weaponry, protecting what's yours

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juliaoceania -> RE: Weaponry, protecting what's yours (7/15/2006 1:41:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: irishbynature I think in your own way, you finally GET it. Julia is neither Dem/Rep and rant on and on about it is waste of her valuable, lovely, blond-tall-gorgeous California body and brain. 2 cents on "leftovers"...they are better heated and reheated anyway. Irish, it isn't worth your time either. Believe me, I decided days ago certain things were not worth my time.. it doesn't matter if Im right or wrong, what matters is to keep the head held up high and to not sink to the behavior that is unbecoming of me... Im not here to argue this sort of thing, and my Dom's opinion and your opinion are the only two I really have any emotional investment in... hugs sweetie.

irishbynature -> RE: Weaponry, protecting what's yours (7/15/2006 1:55:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: ORIGINAL: irishbynature I think in your own way, you finally GET it. Julia is neither Dem/Rep and rant on and on about it is waste of her valuable, lovely, blond-tall-gorgeous California body and brain. 2 cents on "leftovers"...they are better heated and reheated anyway. Irish, it isn't worth your time either. Believe me, I decided days ago certain things were not worth my time.. it doesn't matter if Im right or wrong, what matters is to keep the head held up high and to not sink to the behavior that is unbecoming of me... Im not here to argue this sort of thing, and my Dom's opinion and your opinion are the only two I really have any emotional investment in... hugs sweetie. OK Julia...but darn...I want to light a match with some lighter fluid and you spoiled my fun.....AND you know I'd do it, since I've seen this banter. You've seen my Irish temper so I will sit back and let this one ride. Hugs back.[:D] IBN

CrappyDom -> RE: Weaponry, protecting what's yours (7/15/2006 6:43:53 PM)
Alumbrado, My point was that certain people want to make adreneline crippling to others but claim their secret training recipe makes them still be effective with whatever choice of weapon makes them feel all warm and fuzzy. If you get hit over the head and are having trouble responding, you are going to have trouble responding, it doesn't matter if you are trying to shoot them or kick them in the groin.

mistoferin -> RE: Weaponry, protecting what's yours (7/15/2006 9:23:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Pulpsmack quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin I quietly picked up the 12 guage. There is no other sound in the world like the racking of a shotgun. That sound stopped the foot that was now coming through the window cold. I only needed to say "if I miss you with the first barrel I'm pretty sure I'll get you with the second" for that foot to fly out of the window into the night. I hate to call BS on an otherwise well written post but something doesn't add up here... your choice of words, or your story. Everybody knows that distinctive "click clack" of a 12 gauge being pumped as you have alluded to in your story. (advocates of shotguns for self defense always add that line in their advice: no matter what language you speak, every intruder knows the racking of a 12 gauge pump). Problem here is you tell the intruder that if you don't get him with the first barrel you'll get him with the next. Sorry, that's BS. There are 2 shot/2 barrel side-by-side shotguns, there are 2 shot/2 barrel over/under shotguns, but there are no 2 barrel pump shotguns. Care to explain this? Actually the gun is a Western Field 12 gauge pump...and yes it is a single barrel....I still have it today. Although I am not certain I believe it was manufactured by Mossberg for Montgomery Ward. I was 18 years old at the time of the incident and a bit scared at the moment. It was just something I simply said at that moment. You can believe it....or not.

Sinergy -> RE: Weaponry, protecting what's yours (7/15/2006 9:50:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Pulpsmack If this isn't the case, you certainly come off that way. Thank you for letting me know how you feel about the things I post on an internet message board. Sinergy

Sinergy -> RE: Weaponry, protecting what's yours (7/15/2006 9:56:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Pulpsmack this 4th of july some asshat kids (a little more than a dozen) went on a wilding spree hurling rocks and beer bottles at people before they closed in with bats and beat the hell out of a few. In this case you have to be lucky enough to beat the hell out of at least one (minimum) before the pack brave cowards freak out and run. This assumes you aren't rushed and overtaken by 3 or more of them. With the firearms scenario 2 rounds, hit or miss is going to detonate the "shit the pants factor" with at least half of them then you need only worry about the nearest, the biggest and the loudest in that order. In the armed robbery that I thwarted the shithead was 15-20' away with weapon brandished. It was on a river platform with no escape save a walkway that would require advancement towards him then 90 degree turn 30 yards (where his partner was lying in wait). This was a case in which you likely would be sincerely fucked without a gun if the robber didn't close the distance. My weapon not only scared the piece of shit off, but his partner was nowhere to be found when the shots rang out. From a legal standpoint, a person who states their intention to inflict grievous bodily harm on another person prior to actually doing so adds the charge of "premeditation" to any criminal charges filed against them. In other words, manslaughter gets bumped to murder, etc. I hope the District Attorney in your case doesnt subscribe to these boards. Just me, could be wrong, etc. Sinergy

Pulpsmack -> RE: Weaponry, protecting what's yours (7/16/2006 2:33:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy quote: ORIGINAL: Pulpsmack this 4th of july some asshat kids (a little more than a dozen) went on a wilding spree hurling rocks and beer bottles at people before they closed in with bats and beat the hell out of a few. In this case you have to be lucky enough to beat the hell out of at least one (minimum) before the pack brave cowards freak out and run. This assumes you aren't rushed and overtaken by 3 or more of them. With the firearms scenario 2 rounds, hit or miss is going to detonate the "shit the pants factor" with at least half of them then you need only worry about the nearest, the biggest and the loudest in that order. In the armed robbery that I thwarted the shithead was 15-20' away with weapon brandished. It was on a river platform with no escape save a walkway that would require advancement towards him then 90 degree turn 30 yards (where his partner was lying in wait). This was a case in which you likely would be sincerely fucked without a gun if the robber didn't close the distance. My weapon not only scared the piece of shit off, but his partner was nowhere to be found when the shots rang out. From a legal standpoint, a person who states their intention to inflict grievous bodily harm on another person prior to actually doing so adds the charge of "premeditation" to any criminal charges filed against them. In other words, manslaughter gets bumped to murder, etc. I hope the District Attorney in your case doesnt subscribe to these boards. Just me, could be wrong, etc. Sinergy Thanks all the same for your legal advice but I suggest you stick to teaching what you actually know. Not only are you are perfectly within your rights to cause GBH to one in an effort to stop them from performing it on you, you are well within your rights to intend it the GBH beforehand, so long as it is calculated at stopping the threat that was imposed upon you and the performance of the GBH was conducted under the privilege of self-defense. The only difference would be if one developed this intent, was lying in wait for the "victim" and provoked/engaged the "victim" into an attack whereby he "defended himself".

ViborgHerre -> RE: Weaponry, protecting what's yours (7/16/2006 2:44:57 AM)
Well.. a little from our local court: Doorman at disco, staning in closed alley -approched by some 10-15 persons carrying shovels(?) and baseball bats - shoot one, wounds another. No permit. Not even tried - District attorney states: "Self defence" Attackers tried and convicted on "Attempt to cause bodily harm " in various degrees

Alumbrado -> RE: Weaponry, protecting what's yours (7/16/2006 6:34:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CrappyDom Alumbrado, My point was that certain people want to make adreneline crippling to others but claim their secret training recipe makes them still be effective with whatever choice of weapon makes them feel all warm and fuzzy. If you get hit over the head and are having trouble responding, you are going to have trouble responding, it doesn't matter if you are trying to shoot them or kick them in the groin. Thanks for making that clarification, I wasn't sure if you were doubting the whole adrenalin thing, or just the 'secret training recipe'. I've noticed that the local bullshido school, which was teaching 'Kung Fu' a few years ago (and Tae Kwon Do before that), is now teaching 'realistic self defense'. I'll just bet that they have a secret recipe...[8D] But the folks at places like ASLET seem a little more practical in their approach.

Alumbrado -> RE: Weaponry, protecting what's yours (7/16/2006 6:49:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy From a legal standpoint, a person who states their intention to inflict grievous bodily harm on another person prior to actually doing so adds the charge of "premeditation" to any criminal charges filed against them. In other words, manslaughter gets bumped to murder, etc. I hope the District Attorney in your case doesnt subscribe to these boards. Just me, could be wrong, etc. Sinergy You are right that premeditation when proven, raises the stakes when a death occurs...you are pretty much way off base with the rest. It cannot change a reckless or negligent charge of manslaughter to a murder...(how do you prove that someone pre-planned to be unaware?)... It can elevate a murder charge to a capital murder charge. And 'Stop or I'll shoot' or 'Back off, I just took a self defense course from a expert' is not neccessarily premeditation. In fact, it can be used to show that one felt threatened...a requirement for claiming self defense. (Not that it is always a good idea to announce one's intentions, I'm just addressing the 'premeditation' comments).

IronBear -> RE: Weaponry, protecting what's yours (7/16/2006 7:04:04 AM)
One of the things which will work here is to keep saying to Police when they interview you "I was in fear of my life".

Alumbrado -> RE: Weaponry, protecting what's yours (7/16/2006 7:07:59 AM)
Which in some US cities, has become a stock reply from certain individuals when asked why they were running from the police....

juliaoceania -> RE: Weaponry, protecting what's yours (7/16/2006 8:50:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alumbrado quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy From a legal standpoint, a person who states their intention to inflict grievous bodily harm on another person prior to actually doing so adds the charge of "premeditation" to any criminal charges filed against them. In other words, manslaughter gets bumped to murder, etc. I hope the District Attorney in your case doesnt subscribe to these boards. Just me, could be wrong, etc. Sinergy You are right that premeditation when proven, raises the stakes when a death occurs...you are pretty much way off base with the rest. It cannot change a reckless or negligent charge of manslaughter to a murder...(how do you prove that someone pre-planned to be unaware?)... It can elevate a murder charge to a capital murder charge. And 'Stop or I'll shoot' or 'Back off, I just took a self defense course from a expert' is not neccessarily premeditation. In fact, it can be used to show that one felt threatened...a requirement for claiming self defense. (Not that it is always a good idea to announce one's intentions, I'm just addressing the 'premeditation' comments). Actually if one makes statements about being a vigiliante on the internet, makes statements about the willingness to take a life when that life is "throwing things", talks about taking a life because it is "his freedom" on the line could be called on statements like these if they were read in front of a jury. Law enforcement and the legal system tend to frown on private citizens taking the law into their hands and becoming enforcers of the law instead of calling them. People have been put on trial for being vigilantes before. Someone making these statements goes and "looks for" a fight while they carry a concealed weapon is probably going to find one. If a prosecutor can link internet statements to an act of vigilante violence and show a pattern of behavior of looking for "bad guys" to shoot... yes it could happen. But these are all just hypotheticals. But... they search home PCs for other evidence of crimes, so why not people that have shot others several times in "self defense"?

CrappyDom -> RE: Weaponry, protecting what's yours (7/16/2006 9:20:18 AM)
Julia, That is no more true than for some knuckle dragging fool who does nothing but wank on about unarmed combat. Bottom line, if the DA wants to fuck with you, having a halo and being the son of god isn't going to prevent it. Shit happens, and the saying "better tried by twelve than carried by six" is always going to be true. Which is also why turning the other cheek and walking away is most often the best solution.

Alumbrado -> RE: Weaponry, protecting what's yours (7/16/2006 10:05:54 AM)
Amen.

IronBear -> RE: Weaponry, protecting what's yours (7/16/2006 10:43:41 AM)
As my Father used to tell me: "It takes a bigger man to walk away from a fight. However if life and limb or home and loved ones are threatened. it is better to die defending youself than to run." the emphasis was always on defending and never on starting a fight. Any damned fool can get into a stouch if really wants to.

juliaoceania -> RE: Weaponry, protecting what's yours (7/16/2006 10:48:59 AM)
I do not believe in vigilantism, or in people that think it is ok for them to enforce justice in civil society by pulling out their concealed weapon and firing randomly at people.. but that is just me and I could be wrong

Alumbrado -> RE: Weaponry, protecting what's yours (7/16/2006 10:59:00 AM)
quote: I do not believe in vigilantism, or in people that think it is ok for them to enforce justice in civil society by pulling out their concealed weapon and firing randomly at people... You have every right to feel that way. Others probably feel differently. It does remind me though, of the local media, who every time a woman successfully fends of a would be rapist, abuser, or murderer, labels it as "She took the law into her own hands". It isn't 'the law's' job to go around being a personal body/security guard for everyone, so within certain limits, I have no particular problem with people who practice the form of pacifism that restores peace in the most direct and efficient manner... Even if it does occasionally require the judicious appplication of a little force against a non-pacifist criminal aggressor..

juliaoceania -> RE: Weaponry, protecting what's yours (7/16/2006 11:10:51 AM)
You fire into a group of kids with baseball bats or bottles they are throwing, you miss them and hit an innocent person... WTF are you at that point??? You murdered someone to prove how tough you are with a gun. You could have called the cops, but no,.. you pulled out your 6 shooter and murdered an innocent person... hypothetically. Everytime you fire at people you take the risk of shooting an innocent.. unacceptable, and it has NOTHING to do with your example.

Caretakr -> RE: Weaponry, protecting what's yours (7/16/2006 11:14:37 AM)
The law requires one to withdraw, and seek a public safety officer in these situations. Only when in imminent fear of you life ,are you allowed to act in using deadly force in self defense.

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