RE: US Deficits / Debt

RE: US Deficits / Debt (Full Version)

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mnottertail -> RE: US Deficits / Debt (11/13/2013 8:36:56 AM)
with the electoral college, the decisions that make lobbyists and corporations people, if they dont start out as those folks, they will be molded and beat into those folks.

JeffBC -> RE: US Deficits / Debt (11/13/2013 8:54:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail with the electoral college, the decisions that make lobbyists and corporations people, if they dont start out as those folks, they will be molded and beat into those folks. I agree the system is pretty damned entrenched. But I'd really prefer to find an alternative way out of this than the historical norm. That's always so messy. It is, at least, some encouragement that folks like Elizabeth Warren and yes, as much as I detest that campaign slogan, Alan Grayson can exist at all although arguably they are "token" in the system... allowed to exist because they make it sound like the people have a voice when in fact they can do nothing.

DesideriScuri -> RE: US Deficits / Debt (11/13/2013 1:04:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JeffBC quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri Sorry, but I think Grayson disqualifies himself with this type of campaigning: Man, that'd be a tough one... much like the Pauls for me. On one hand we desperately need ANY politician willing to keep us out of chains. On the other hand, you're right, I would normally reject any politician who ran an ad like that. What I can tell you is that my votes next year will be going to the anti-corporatist candidates from whatever corner of the political spectrum they come from... assuming there are any. What was your issue with Ron Paul? Rand hasn't ever been as fervent a supporter of auditing the Fed like his dad, and he has some skeletons in his closet that are going to be tough to deal with, going forward.

JeffBC -> RE: US Deficits / Debt (11/13/2013 8:42:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri What was your issue with Ron Paul? Racism & women's rights. The women's rights thing was a certainty and the racism was a ton of smoke but I had a hard time finding the fire. I would've voted for him if there was an opportunity. I decided the things we DID agree on were so important that it was worth having to fight him over some maybe problems should they materialize.

DesideriScuri -> RE: US Deficits / Debt (11/14/2013 9:40:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JeffBC quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri What was your issue with Ron Paul? Racism & women's rights. The women's rights thing was a certainty and the racism was a ton of smoke but I had a hard time finding the fire. I would've voted for him if there was an opportunity. I decided the things we DID agree on were so important that it was worth having to fight him over some maybe problems should they materialize. How was he racist? How was he opposed to women's rights? Does that stem from his opposition to Roe v. Wade on the grounds that the Federal Government doesn't have the authority to dictate one way or the other, and that it was a State's rights thing?

papassion -> RE: US Deficits / Debt (11/14/2013 11:16:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Or you know we could simply increase revenue enough to have a reasonable surplus and slowly pay down the debt. We could even pursue a pro inflation, say 5 or 6%, strategy and reduce the debt by effectively slowly devaluing the dollar. Yeah, and we could solve the drug problem in the US by telling addicts to just use a little less until you taper off. The Chinese an Russians are going to devalue the dollar for us, and its not going to be pretty! Stay tuned.

mnottertail -> RE: US Deficits / Debt (11/14/2013 11:57:16 AM)
LOL, what does that hurt to devalue our dollar? Chinese goods become more expensive. Russia can't devalue shit. They would have to have value to devalue comparitively, and nobody is gonna sock away the rubles for a rainy day. What they got? Chinese own a lot of bonds why would they want to lose money like that? We can just devalue our dollar anytime, simply by saying, we devalue it.

DomKen -> RE: US Deficits / Debt (11/14/2013 12:52:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Or you know we could simply increase revenue enough to have a reasonable surplus and slowly pay down the debt. We could even pursue a pro inflation, say 5 or 6%, strategy and reduce the debt by effectively slowly devaluing the dollar. There's only 538 problems with your scenario. Well. 539. It won't work. Consistently, every time we raise taxes spending rises by the same or more. But, even if we were to do that. You could take every penny of every american and not pay our obligations. We don't have a revenue problem - our revenues are fine. We have a spending problem. Nonsense. We raised taxes in the 90's and we controlled spending such that the budget nearly reached balance. Were tax rates raised? Yes. Did the economy boom? Yes. Were the two related other than simply occurring at the same time? No. The economy boomed because of new technology in business. The internet hit and its use exploded in the business world. The high tax rates raked in more money because of the economic boom. Without that economic boom, what would the tax revenues and deficits have been? The economy boomed despite the more realistic tax rates. Proving tax rates, in that range, have little if any impact on the economy. As to the rest, If the wealthy are getting richer, true, amd the rest of us aren't, also true, then something has to be done or we are looking at eventual trouble. So, since I do not desire the French solution be applied here, I see the need to greatly tax the wealthy to redistribute that wealth.

DesideriScuri -> RE: US Deficits / Debt (11/14/2013 1:40:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Or you know we could simply increase revenue enough to have a reasonable surplus and slowly pay down the debt. We could even pursue a pro inflation, say 5 or 6%, strategy and reduce the debt by effectively slowly devaluing the dollar. There's only 538 problems with your scenario. Well. 539. It won't work. Consistently, every time we raise taxes spending rises by the same or more. But, even if we were to do that. You could take every penny of every american and not pay our obligations. We don't have a revenue problem - our revenues are fine. We have a spending problem. Nonsense. We raised taxes in the 90's and we controlled spending such that the budget nearly reached balance. Were tax rates raised? Yes. Did the economy boom? Yes. Were the two related other than simply occurring at the same time? No. The economy boomed because of new technology in business. The internet hit and its use exploded in the business world. The high tax rates raked in more money because of the economic boom. Without that economic boom, what would the tax revenues and deficits have been? The economy boomed despite the more realistic tax rates. Proving tax rates, in that range, have little if any impact on the economy. As to the rest, If the wealthy are getting richer, true, amd the rest of us aren't, also true, then something has to be done or we are looking at eventual trouble. So, since I do not desire the French solution be applied here, I see the need to greatly tax the wealthy to redistribute that wealth. Considering the economy boomed on a major technological breakthrough, unless we have another one of those coming down the pipe, tax rates may or may not have any kind of impact on the economy. Had the internet craze not happened in the 90's, things could have been much different (though that's pure conjecture was we can't know).

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