Divorce due to cancer (Full Version)

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sloguy02246 -> Divorce due to cancer (11/15/2013 7:07:11 AM)

I went on a blind date late month with a retired high school English teacher. We met for lunch and sat and talked for over three hours. Among many things she told me was that several years ago she was diagnosed with breast cancer.
After the initial diagnosis, there were attempts to arrest the disease with chemo and radiation, but ultimately she had to undergo a double mastectomy. She has remained cancer-free since then.

I expressed my sympathy for her troubles and asked if this had happened before or after her divorce. Her reply was this (obviously paraphrased):

"We were still married and my husband stood by me through the entire process, starting with the initial diagnosis. After the surgery, I was tested at 3 months and then again at six months. Both tests showed no cancer remaining, and I was told to schedule the next follow-up test in six months. When I got home after that second test and told my husband the happy results, he sat down with me and asked me for a divorce."

I guess my jaw dropped at that point and all I could think to ask her was "why?."

Her response was: "He said he was happy that I had beaten the cancer, but that he felt that he was entitled to a 'whole woman,' just like the one he had married. Since I was no longer a 'whole woman' any more, he wanted to find someone else who was."

Our date turned out to be a "one-and-done" (due to other factors - I had no problem with her physical condition), but I can't help continuing to think about her ex-husband's behavior.
I thought that, okay, maybe their marriage was already on the ropes and he was already thinking about divorce when the cancer intervened, but even if that was the case, why would a husband say this to a spouse who had just been through a battle with cancer and won?




kalikshama -> RE: Divorce due to cancer (11/15/2013 7:11:43 AM)

My own marriage ended partially due to stresses caused by my illness. It's common. Also happens when it's the children that are sick.




Tantriqu -> RE: Divorce due to cancer (11/15/2013 7:16:48 AM)

Sadly common for husbands to leave seriously ill wives: seven times more often than wives leaving husbands: male flight, female flight.
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/12/men-more-likely-to-leave-spouse-with-cancer/?_r=0





kalikshama -> RE: Divorce due to cancer (11/15/2013 7:18:12 AM)

Gender Divorce Gap After Illness Strikes

Study Shows Women With Cancer or MS More Likely Than Men to Become Separted or Divorced


Nov. 12, 2009 -- When faced with the serious illness of a spouse, men are far more likely to walk away than women, a study shows.

Women in the study with cancer or multiple sclerosis were more than six times as likely to become separated or divorced within an average of six months of being diagnosed as were men with similar health issues.

The overall divorce and separation rate among the study participants was similar to the population as a whole.

But when the wife was the patient, the divorce and separation rate was close to 21%, compared to 3% when the husband was seriously ill.

Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center neuro-oncologist Marc Chamberlain, MD, says he and colleagues got the idea for the study after noticing that divorces were far more common among their female brain cancer patients than their male patients.

“When we explored this, we found the same thing in patients with other cancers and multiple sclerosis,” he tells WebMD. “In this study at least, the men did not show the same level of commitment and emotional attachment to their sick spouse, family, and home as women did.”

9 of 10 Breakups in Female Patients

The study included 515 patients with malignant brain tumors, other cancers, or multiple sclerosis who were married at the time of their diagnosis. About half the patients were women.

Within an average of six months of diagnosis (range one to 14 months) 60 of the patients became divorced or separated.

Among the 214 patients with brain tumors, 78% of the divorces or separations occurred among women.

Of the 108 patients with multiple sclerosis and 193 patients with other cancers, 96% and 93% of breakups, respectively, occurred in women.

"The woman was the affected spouse in nearly 90% of separations that occurred among our patient cohort,” the researchers write in the Nov. 15 issue of the journal Cancer. “In fact, female sex was found to be the strongest predictor of divorce or separation in each of the three patient populations.”

It was not clear if the marriages that ended were in trouble before the diagnosis of illness or who initiated the breakups.

Marriage length was a strong predictor or whether couples would stay married or separate after a diagnosis of cancer or MS. The longer a couple had been married, the more likely that they would stay married.

Medical Outcomes Worse in Divorced

Patients with brain tumors who separated or divorced were more likely to use antidepressants and die in the hospital and less likely to participate in clinical trials, complete radiation treatments, and die at home than patients whose marriages survived.

Three-fourths of multiple sclerosis patients are women and 70% of patients are diagnosed between the ages of 20 and 50.

Because MS strikes women more than men and young adults more than older ones, psychologist Nicholas LaRocca, PhD, of the National Multiple Sclerosis Society (NMSS), says women with the disease tend to be particularly vulnerable when their marriages end.

“MS is often diagnosed in the mid-30s, and this is when many women have take time off from work to raise a family,” he tells WebMD. “Plans to go back to work are often interrupted by MS.”

With the aid of a federal grant, NMSS has initiated a group support program to help MS patients and their spouses work through issues directly and indirectly related to the disease.

“When you are dealing with a serious illness, relationship issues may be ignored,” he says. “Not all marriages can or should be saved, but many that end in divorce probably could be saved with the right kind of support.”




DaddySatyr -> RE: Divorce due to cancer (11/15/2013 7:21:21 AM)

It's unfortunate but there are men that feel this way. It's petty and it's belittling but it happens.

I had an experience with a lady that had lost one breast. We spoke, quite a bit and met once. She kept insisting that I must have a problem with her physicality (I didn't. I've never been much of a breast man) and, ultimately, it was her "creating an issue" that caused us to not go any further.

I am quite sure that if she ever thinks or talks about me, she blames the non-start of our relationship on my shallowness. Nothing could be further from the truth.

While you probably will have nothing more to do with this lady, I wouldn't be too quick to judge her ex negatively. You are only getting one side of the story.






sloguy02246 -> RE: Divorce due to cancer (11/15/2013 7:31:55 AM)

Honestly, the divorce statistics cited do not surprise me as I feel that men would be the more likely to "cut and run" during a spouse's medical crisis. In general, men have never been very dependable during medical crises (yes, there are exceptions).

But my question is why a husband would openly state that his wife's sudden and involuntary lack of breasts is his reason for seeking an exit.
Is that a justifiable reason for a man to want his marriage to end?
I know that in some states the inability to have sexual intercourse is an acceptable reason for a divorce (for a man or woman), but should a double mastectomy also be an acceptable reason?




angelikaJ -> RE: Divorce due to cancer (11/15/2013 7:39:42 AM)

Some men see their wives as less than whole if they have a hysterectomy.

I think her husband's remark was callous but there are plenty of spouses who decide on a divorce if their spouse's looks change.
Weight gain (or sometimes weight loss) is a common reason.
Aging is another.

For some people love is partly connected to whether they are sexually attracted to their partner.
And for some people not being sexually attracted to their partner is a deal breaker.





OsideGirl -> RE: Divorce due to cancer (11/15/2013 7:53:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sloguy02246
why would a husband say this to a spouse who had just been through a battle with cancer and won?



For the same reason that a guy told me I was useless when I told him that I was a cancer survivor and couldn't have kids. People can be selfish assholes.

But, I'll tell you the opposite story too:

At age 31, 6 months after having my brother, my mother had a double mastectomy and a hysterectomy for cancer. Her divorce had just come final and she was terrified that no one would ever want a woman that lacked everything that made up a women.

At that point, the man she was dating told her that she was the most incredible and beautiful woman he had ever met...and that he wanted to marry her. They were married for 36 years up until his death last year. I loved him for being him and I loved him even more for teaching my mother that those things didn't make her whole. It was all the other things that made her whole.




DesFIP -> RE: Divorce due to cancer (11/15/2013 9:13:36 AM)

Traditionally women are more likely to be the caregivers in a relationship and when that stops, the guy not only doesn't know how to caregive without burning out, but he's missing being fussed over. If they don't talk it out, and all too often guys can't identify their specific emotions; frustration vs exasperation, they can't fix things if they lack the appropriate skills.

Beyond that it may well be that the marriage was already troubled and he felt obligated to stand by her until she was recovered and then could walk away.




tj444 -> RE: Divorce due to cancer (11/15/2013 9:19:28 AM)

People can be unpredictable.. I had a friend who had MS and I thought for sure her hubby would cut and run... surprising to me he didn't.. but the MS hit hard and fast and she died within a few years.. Its the "stand up guys" who you expect to stick it out that do a runner.. [&o]




needlesandpins -> RE: Divorce due to cancer (11/15/2013 9:57:42 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: sloguy02246
why would a husband say this to a spouse who had just been through a battle with cancer and won?



For the same reason that a guy told me I was useless when I told him that I was a cancer survivor and couldn't have kids. People can be selfish assholes.

But, I'll tell you the opposite story too:

At age 31, 6 months after having my brother, my mother had a double mastectomy and a hysterectomy for cancer. Her divorce had just come final and she was terrified that no one would ever want a woman that lacked everything that made up a women.

At that point, the man she was dating told her that she was the most incredible and beautiful woman he had ever met...and that he wanted to marry her. They were married for 36 years up until his death last year. I loved him for being him and I loved him even more for teaching my mother that those things didn't make her whole. It was all the other things that made her whole.



how wonderful to have someone love you that much.

needles




MariaB -> RE: Divorce due to cancer (11/15/2013 12:40:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: sloguy02246
why would a husband say this to a spouse who had just been through a battle with cancer and won?



For the same reason that a guy told me I was useless when I told him that I was a cancer survivor and couldn't have kids. People can be selfish assholes.

But, I'll tell you the opposite story too:

At age 31, 6 months after having my brother, my mother had a double mastectomy and a hysterectomy for cancer. Her divorce had just come final and she was terrified that no one would ever want a woman that lacked everything that made up a women.

At that point, the man she was dating told her that she was the most incredible and beautiful woman he had ever met...and that he wanted to marry her. They were married for 36 years up until his death last year. I loved him for being him and I loved him even more for teaching my mother that those things didn't make her whole. It was all the other things that made her whole.



This made me cry but they were tears for a beautiful story. Thanks for sharing.




DarkSteven -> RE: Divorce due to cancer (11/15/2013 3:43:06 PM)

OP, cancer is incredibly stressful, for all parties involved. I can imagine their relationship getting frayed and the husband unwilling to do anything until he knew his wife was cancer-free.

Keep in mind that you do not have his actual words. You have her take on what he said.




LookieNoNookie -> RE: Divorce due to cancer (11/15/2013 4:39:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sloguy02246

I went on a blind date late month with a retired high school English teacher. We met for lunch and sat and talked for over three hours. Among many things she told me was that several years ago she was diagnosed with breast cancer.
After the initial diagnosis, there were attempts to arrest the disease with chemo and radiation, but ultimately she had to undergo a double mastectomy. She has remained cancer-free since then.

I expressed my sympathy for her troubles and asked if this had happened before or after her divorce. Her reply was this (obviously paraphrased):

"We were still married and my husband stood by me through the entire process, starting with the initial diagnosis. After the surgery, I was tested at 3 months and then again at six months. Both tests showed no cancer remaining, and I was told to schedule the next follow-up test in six months. When I got home after that second test and told my husband the happy results, he sat down with me and asked me for a divorce."

I guess my jaw dropped at that point and all I could think to ask her was "why?."

Her response was: "He said he was happy that I had beaten the cancer, but that he felt that he was entitled to a 'whole woman,' just like the one he had married. Since I was no longer a 'whole woman' any more, he wanted to find someone else who was."

Our date turned out to be a "one-and-done" (due to other factors - I had no problem with her physical condition), but I can't help continuing to think about her ex-husband's behavior.
I thought that, okay, maybe their marriage was already on the ropes and he was already thinking about divorce when the cancer intervened, but even if that was the case, why would a husband say this to a spouse who had just been through a battle with cancer and won?



And this was the first date?




njlauren -> RE: Divorce due to cancer (11/15/2013 9:10:16 PM)

It wouldn't surprise me if a husband divorced his wife after having mastectomies, a lot of men unfortunately are that shallow (and yeah, there are women that shallow as well, women who divorce a husband who has been laid off and having a hard time finding a job, a husband whose business goes under, etc, women who decide they want a guy with a bigger cock, in better shape, etc...). Having been through more than a bit of hell in my own marriage, I know how hard it is when dealing with issues with a spouse (as mine would obviously say about me), but I agree with others, I suspect this was a lot more than the breasts being removed, I suspect he was looking for an out and used that as an excuse (among other things, breasts can be rebuilt, insurance pays for that).

It does raise questions, for example, what happens when a spouse has something like MS and becomes incapacitated? There is a famous example of that, Daniel Berenboim (the pianist/conductor) was married to Jacqueline Du Pre (famous cellist, an incredible one) who came down with MS by the time she was in her late 20s, and degenerated pretty rapidly, stopped playing at 27, and by the time she was in her late 30's was pretty much bedridden. Eventually Berenboim ended up in a relationship with another woman,but he stayed married to Du Pre and took care of her, he never abandoned her. Some would judge this, but he at least tried to make the best of a bad situation, so for me it would be hard to judge.




DomKen -> RE: Divorce due to cancer (11/16/2013 1:36:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: njlauren
It does raise questions, for example, what happens when a spouse has something like MS and becomes incapacitated? There is a famous example of that, Daniel Berenboim (the pianist/conductor) was married to Jacqueline Du Pre (famous cellist, an incredible one) who came down with MS by the time she was in her late 20s, and degenerated pretty rapidly, stopped playing at 27, and by the time she was in her late 30's was pretty much bedridden. Eventually Berenboim ended up in a relationship with another woman,but he stayed married to Du Pre and took care of her, he never abandoned her. Some would judge this, but he at least tried to make the best of a bad situation, so for me it would be hard to judge.

This came up from time to time while he was conductor of the Chicago Symphony. He married Bashkirova very soon after Du Pre died and has been, apparently, faithful to her ever since. He stuck with Du Pre for 20 years, married her in 1967 and she died in 1987, and has been married to Bashkirova ever since.

I think it says a lot about the man that he stayed with his first wife even though she could not share his life in any meaningful way the last decade of her life. That he sought physical intimacy with another woman when his wife could no longer share that with him is something some may condemn but I wonder how many would if put into the same position.

As to men leaving their wives during or after a major illness, sometimes the illness was the final stress on a relationship already in trouble. The rest of the time the man is simply shallow and the women is likely far better off.




jlf1961 -> RE: Divorce due to cancer (11/16/2013 2:19:16 AM)

Just my opinion, and I might be biased, but the husband in question is a superficial, shallow jack ass.




susie -> RE: Divorce due to cancer (11/16/2013 3:46:06 AM)

I had been in a relationship with someone for over 7 years when, during a hospital test, my bowel was perforated. After 18 months in and out of hospital I ended up with a colostomy bag. He stayed with me all the way through but once I was back on my feet he left.

It took me a while to get myself straight and liking myself again before I decided it was time to date again. The problem I had was how and when to tell someone about my "bag" My mother suggested I try online dating as that way I could warn people before I actually met them. I tried a couple of dating sites but having always been curious about bdsm I also joined bondage. I chatted to many people from the sites and some I got on well with but at the point I told them about the dreaded bag they disappeared.

Eventually I was contacted by someone from bondage. My bag was not a problem to him and we arranged to meet for a one off play date (yes I did everything wrong, meeting without a phone call etc). Something clicked on that date and within 6 months we were engaged and buying a house together.

During the 10 years we have been together he has nursed me through skin cancer, where he had to clean and change my dressing daily, and a brain tumour. So you can never tell how a man is going to react even when you think you know them well.




kalikshama -> RE: Divorce due to cancer (11/16/2013 6:23:51 AM)

quote:

And this was the first date?


Good point, this is rather TMI for a first date.




leonine -> RE: Divorce due to cancer (11/16/2013 6:54:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Just my opinion, and I might be biased, but the husband in question is a superficial, shallow jack ass.

Be fair, he did stick with her till she was cancer free. So, superficial and shallow, but human.




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