RE: Divorce due to cancer (Full Version)

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sloguy02246 -> RE: Divorce due to cancer (11/16/2013 7:19:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

And this was the first date?


Good point, this is rather TMI for a first date.



My impression at that time was that she made a conscious decision to tell me about her physical condition, just in case I would consider it as a "deal-killer" for me as far as a possible relationship was concerned. (It wasn't, and I told her so.)
Note: The way she had dressed gave no indication that she had undergone a double mastectomy.
Once all of that was out in the open (and out of the way), we kind of relaxed and ended up talking for over 3 hours.






tj444 -> RE: Divorce due to cancer (11/16/2013 7:37:02 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: njlauren
It does raise questions, for example, what happens when a spouse has something like MS and becomes incapacitated? There is a famous example of that, Daniel Berenboim (the pianist/conductor) was married to Jacqueline Du Pre (famous cellist, an incredible one) who came down with MS by the time she was in her late 20s, and degenerated pretty rapidly, stopped playing at 27, and by the time she was in her late 30's was pretty much bedridden. Eventually Berenboim ended up in a relationship with another woman,but he stayed married to Du Pre and took care of her, he never abandoned her. Some would judge this, but he at least tried to make the best of a bad situation, so for me it would be hard to judge.

This came up from time to time while he was conductor of the Chicago Symphony. He married Bashkirova very soon after Du Pre died and has been, apparently, faithful to her ever since. He stuck with Du Pre for 20 years, married her in 1967 and she died in 1987, and has been married to Bashkirova ever since.

I think it says a lot about the man that he stayed with his first wife even though she could not share his life in any meaningful way the last decade of her life. That he sought physical intimacy with another woman when his wife could no longer share that with him is something some may condemn but I wonder how many would if put into the same position.

As to men leaving their wives during or after a major illness, sometimes the illness was the final stress on a relationship already in trouble. The rest of the time the man is simply shallow and the women is likely far better off.

that is not the normal "cheating" situation.. and its probably the only time I wouldn't condemn him/a cheater.. that is similar to my friend that had MS.. but she died in only 3 or 4 years, bedridden for about 1 of those years.. her hubby started seeing another woman, and my friend knew about her (the three of them even went shopping together once).. my friends concern was not about his cheating, it was about what happens to her hubby (& their young son) once she is gone.. she knew she was going to die and wanted someone to take her place and take care of her family..




defiantbadgirl -> RE: Divorce due to cancer (11/16/2013 8:19:21 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: njlauren
It does raise questions, for example, what happens when a spouse has something like MS and becomes incapacitated? There is a famous example of that, Daniel Berenboim (the pianist/conductor) was married to Jacqueline Du Pre (famous cellist, an incredible one) who came down with MS by the time she was in her late 20s, and degenerated pretty rapidly, stopped playing at 27, and by the time she was in her late 30's was pretty much bedridden. Eventually Berenboim ended up in a relationship with another woman,but he stayed married to Du Pre and took care of her, he never abandoned her. Some would judge this, but he at least tried to make the best of a bad situation, so for me it would be hard to judge.

This came up from time to time while he was conductor of the Chicago Symphony. He married Bashkirova very soon after Du Pre died and has been, apparently, faithful to her ever since. He stuck with Du Pre for 20 years, married her in 1967 and she died in 1987, and has been married to Bashkirova ever since.

I think it says a lot about the man that he stayed with his first wife even though she could not share his life in any meaningful way the last decade of her life. That he sought physical intimacy with another woman when his wife could no longer share that with him is something some may condemn but I wonder how many would if put into the same position.

As to men leaving their wives during or after a major illness, sometimes the illness was the final stress on a relationship already in trouble. The rest of the time the man is simply shallow and the women is likely far better off.

that is not the normal "cheating" situation.. and its probably the only time I wouldn't condemn him/a cheater.. that is similar to my friend that had MS.. but she died in only 3 or 4 years, bedridden for about 1 of those years.. her hubby started seeing another woman, and my friend knew about her (the three of them even went shopping together once).. my friends concern was not about his cheating, it was about what happens to her hubby (& their young son) once she is gone.. she knew she was going to die and wanted someone to take her place and take care of her family..


There's a movie about a farmer's wife with terminal cancer finding her husband another woman to marry after her death. It's called The Substitute Wife.




JeffBC -> RE: Divorce due to cancer (11/16/2013 8:56:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama
Gender Divorce Gap After Illness Strikes
Study Shows Women With Cancer or MS More Likely Than Men to Become Separted or Divorced

Nov. 12, 2009 -- When faced with the serious illness of a spouse, men are far more likely to walk away than women, a study shows.

Some days you run across stuff that just makes you embarrassed to be your own gender. This is one of those days.




littlewonder -> RE: Divorce due to cancer (11/16/2013 7:51:53 PM)

I had men leave me because of my depression. At the beginning they all said they were ok with it and not a big deal but when they realized that my depression was something more than "just the blues", they split. I've had men who were no longer interested when they learned I was a young widow and that I have a child or that I came from a broken, poor home and lots of other stupid reasons. They saw me as damaged goods.

So when Master came along I was already at the point where I just assumed he would run after the first month or so at the most if not earlier. But it's been 7 years and still going. [;)]

Some men (and women) just can't handle anything that may take away from them in the relationship. At least some split before anything is ever really started. But some stick around longer than necessary because they can't get up the balls earlier than that to just say so.




Zonie63 -> RE: Divorce due to cancer (11/17/2013 7:09:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sloguy02246
Honestly, the divorce statistics cited do not surprise me as I feel that men would be the more likely to "cut and run" during a spouse's medical crisis. In general, men have never been very dependable during medical crises (yes, there are exceptions).


The stats in the posted links stated that 21% of men divorce their wives during a serious illness, which would indicate that 79% still stay with their wives. I don't think it would be correct to make a generalized statement about men not being very dependable during medical crises, since the stats would show otherwise.

quote:


But my question is why a husband would openly state that his wife's sudden and involuntary lack of breasts is his reason for seeking an exit.
Is that a justifiable reason for a man to want his marriage to end?
I know that in some states the inability to have sexual intercourse is an acceptable reason for a divorce (for a man or woman), but should a double mastectomy also be an acceptable reason?


I suppose it would depend on who you ask and what would constitute an "acceptable reason." I think people can get divorced for whatever reason they wish. If they just don't want to be with each other anymore, irreconcilable differences, etc. It doesn't seem to matter if there even is a reason, let alone whether it's "acceptable." With the people I know who have gotten divorced - and some of the reasons given - I sometimes wonder why they even got married in the first place.

Other than that, I know that there are some people who are uncomfortable with any kind of crisis, illness, or serious medical condition. Some people are out of their element, they get frustrated, they don't know what to do, and sometimes they even become resentful and angry towards the person who is sick. I know it sounds horrible, but it's not all that uncommon. Some people can get caregiver burnout, too.

I'm not sure why men would be more likely to bail than women in cases where the spouse is seriously ill. It might also depend on how much other support the spouse/caregiver might be receiving from family, friends, or whatever personal support system they might have. That's also important, since a lot of men might feel compelled to "go it alone" and not ask for help when they so badly need it. His friends might feel the same way so they may not want to deal with the subject either; a lot of people don't really know what to do or what to say when faced with those kinds of situations.

For older couples, they might already have strong supports in place, especially if they have grown children and/or are firmly established in a neighborhood and community. There's more likely to be found those in their peer group who have experience with what they're going through, so they're more likely to get the support they need. That might be more difficult with younger couples going through similar crises. If they're new to a place and don't know many people, or if they don't really have any family they can turn to, then it's going to be doubly difficult to weather any kind of crisis.





TheBanshee -> RE: Divorce due to cancer (11/17/2013 8:15:39 AM)

Without knowing these people at all I would also like to speculate on what might also have been a component.

When something like this happens, it may also become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Not saying she did this but it may also have been someone who was always confident and expressive and comfortable in her own skin to someone who becomes a bit bitter, much less confident, insecure, and professing "how can you love me like this" attitude.

I had a friend who's husband had a serious injury and who had lost a leg. He became angry, mean-spirited, and blamed everything and anything for things not being easy for him anymore. When they divorced, it seriously wasn't because of his leg, it was the fact that he was completely different.

I'm not saying this was what happened, just trying to speculate from a different vantage point.




njlauren -> RE: Divorce due to cancer (11/17/2013 9:38:52 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheBanshee

Without knowing these people at all I would also like to speculate on what might also have been a component.

When something like this happens, it may also become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Not saying she did this but it may also have been someone who was always confident and expressive and comfortable in her own skin to someone who becomes a bit bitter, much less confident, insecure, and professing "how can you love me like this" attitude.

I had a friend who's husband had a serious injury and who had lost a leg. He became angry, mean-spirited, and blamed everything and anything for things not being easy for him anymore. When they divorced, it seriously wasn't because of his leg, it was the fact that he was completely different.

I'm not saying this was what happened, just trying to speculate from a different vantage point.

That is a good point and a very valid one. People who get sick or have something happen can become bitter or worse, and it ends up where they alienate friends and family, so there can be other factors. From what I have read of married military people who are seriously injured, it is not uncommon for it to break up relationships and families, in many cases because the wounded person becomes angry or whatever and can drive people away (it is why the lack of emotional care for soldiers is a fucking tragedy, even 10 years into wars that have left so many seriously injured and such, still given short shrift).




DommeinRochester -> RE: Divorce due to cancer (11/17/2013 1:09:55 PM)

As others have said, there are 3 sides to every story.  Perhaps they were on the edge of divorce prior to her diagnosis and he stayed longer so he could take care of her.

For what it's worth, I had a mastectomy this past May.  While I've just about recovered physically, I'm still riding the Cancer Crazy Train.  There are days when I'm just a beast to be around.  The part of my body that I liked the most was my breasts.  Well nope, not any more.  I've now got a 14 inch scar staring me in the eye every fucking day.  No matter what my partner tells me, there are days I wonder how can anyone find me attractive. 

In additon to that, since my surgery, my "downtown" closed up shop tight.  Finally, I'm on hormones.  Yeee Haw!  Hourly hot flashes some days.  Yes, it's all settling down, but there is a lot to contend with physically, emotionally and mentally.





sheisreeds -> RE: Divorce due to cancer (11/17/2013 2:07:56 PM)

Illness is a crucible for a relationship. No matter how the couple plays its cards the holes, rough spots, differences, etc will come out. A couple will know if they are meant to be by the time the illness is over.

I wonder if he really left because of the mastectomy, or if it was other factors.

I would be thankful that my relationship survived my 18+ months of illness, however, that would short change the work we did on our relationship to survive. Instead I am thankful for a partner who was willing to be there for me and do the work, I am thankful that the work I did in turn was worthwhile enough for him to stay.

There were fights, there were times both of us almost walked. When striped of my ability to be who I was when we got together we really got a chance to learn what we were made of. What was right, and what was broken, and whether or not it was in us to fix it.

Illness also tends to turn each member of the relationship into their very own island. As the sick partner either isolates, or due to being overwhelmed with the situation cannot express or connect with anyone regarding the experience. And the supporting partner has their own emotions and grief that they either feel do not deserve a place, or they are not given a place.

And for women when sexual and/or physical identities are put on the line by illness, it compounds the stress on the relationship.

Looking back I can't tell what was more devastating, medically induced menopause, physically being incapable of sex due to a locked up pelvic floor, the debilitating pain after sex, going most of a year with no ability to orgasm at all.

I can't tell looking back who was more affected, me, or him. I at least was so fucking sick most of the time to not even be able to think about intimacy, yet I had to directly deal with the pain of being a shadow of my self.

What makes me the saddest about the OP's story is that neither party in that marriage is learning what led to the downfall, instead excusing it on a double mastectomy. There are deeper issues present, there was something lethal that came about, that no one is addressing.

Edited for shitty typing ;)




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