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RE: Is the time right for a PUBLIC OPTION? - 11/15/2013 12:10:28 PM   
Arturas


Posts: 3245
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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Given that health insurance companies don't provide any healthcare services, and are by definition an expense, by bother wasting money on them?


Because they give free citizens a choice. Choice is important to free citizens. Therefore Choice is important in the United States.

This is so easy because we can always go back to the Constitutional preamble, we are guaranteed Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Liberty means nobody can force us to buy policies managed and controlled by the Government. Simple. Bingo. Any argument for ACA falls flat on the fact that Americans are Free and they told Obama to go fuck himself when he lied and tried to force Americans to do his will and not theirs.

< Message edited by Arturas -- 11/15/2013 12:11:17 PM >

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RE: Is the time right for a PUBLIC OPTION? - 11/15/2013 12:14:42 PM   
Arturas


Posts: 3245
Status: offline 		BTW, pursuit of happiness does not mean a guarantee of happiness and all that entails including health care. You don't like it? Move. The Dems are dead on this and as much as I like Dems, the current crop including Pelosi did "tread on citizens" and in America that means you are fucked when we find out, and we found out, all of us.

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RE: Is the time right for a PUBLIC OPTION? - 11/15/2013 12:19:00 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		LOL, we will await the coming slaughter. Pursue your happiness.

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RE: Is the time right for a PUBLIC OPTION? - 11/15/2013 12:27:04 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas
Any argument for ACA falls flat on the fact that Americans are Free and they told Obama to go fuck himself when he lied and tried to force Americans to do his will and not theirs.

That'll be why none of you were drafted during any war during the twentieth century as well, then.

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(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to Arturas)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Is the time right for a PUBLIC OPTION? - 11/15/2013 12:50:22 PM   
itsSIRtou


Posts: 836
Joined: 3/20/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: papassion

Obviously because we need someone who knows how to run a healthcare system. Clearly, the government does not. Correct me if wrong, but aren't most public option healthcafe systems in the world, running into problems and are unsustainable?




most CEO's and many of top tier of hospital's and health insurance companies have never brought a child into the world, had a scalpel, or as much as a tongue depressor in their hands making decisions on healthcare......

working with your premise, that the government does not know what its doing,...

.....Why do you think the government has to have more knowledge than the CEO's already in charge? and really? if the for-profit model of healthcare was working so well, why is the close-second leading cause of personal bankruptcy, behind credit card debt ( with the caveat that many people put some of their healthcare bills on a credit card.) ......healthcare bills?





_____________________________

I will allways be a knight, instead of a prince.

What would the internet be like if we couldn't say trump is a moron?

The Republican party complains government doesnt work for people, and then makes darn sure it cannot.

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Is the time right for a PUBLIC OPTION? - 11/15/2013 1:07:59 PM   
papassion


Posts: 487
Joined: 3/28/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: itsSIRtou


quote:

ORIGINAL: papassion

Obviously because we need someone who knows how to run a healthcare system. Clearly, the government does not. Correct me if wrong, but aren't most public option healthcafe systems in the world, running into problems and are unsustainable?
[/quote

most CEO's and many of top tier of hospital's and health insurance companies have never brought a child into the world, had a scalpel, or as much as a tongue depressor in their hands making decisions on healthcare......

working with your premise, that the government does not know what its doing,...

.....Why do you think the government has to have more knowledge than the CEO's already in charge? and really? if the for-profit model of healthcare was working so well, why is the close-second leading cause of personal bankruptcy, behind credit card debt ( with the caveat that many people put some of their healthcare bills on a credit card.) ......healthcare bills?






Ah, but the CEO's have a track record of successful operation of running hospitals and making a tidy profit. The personal bankruptcy you talk about is not the CEO's. Can you name anything (other than the military, which is not run by government) that could make it on its own?

(in reply to itsSIRtou)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Is the time right for a PUBLIC OPTION? - 11/15/2013 1:11:03 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		The IRS?  They're pretty good.

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Is the time right for a PUBLIC OPTION? - 11/15/2013 1:51:29 PM   
itsSIRtou


Posts: 836
Joined: 3/20/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: papassion


quote:

ORIGINAL: itsSIRtou


quote:

ORIGINAL: papassion

Obviously because we need someone who knows how to run a healthcare system. Clearly, the government does not. Correct me if wrong, but aren't most public option healthcafe systems in the world, running into problems and are unsustainable?
[/quote

most CEO's and many of top tier of hospital's and health insurance companies have never brought a child into the world, had a scalpel, or as much as a tongue depressor in their hands making decisions on healthcare......

working with your premise, that the government does not know what its doing,...

.....Why do you think the government has to have more knowledge than the CEO's already in charge? and really? if the for-profit model of healthcare was working so well, why is the close-second leading cause of personal bankruptcy, behind credit card debt ( with the caveat that many people put some of their healthcare bills on a credit card.) ......healthcare bills?






Ah, but the CEO's have a track record of successful operation of running hospitals and making a tidy profit. The personal bankruptcy you talk about is not the CEO's. Can you name anything (other than the military, which is not run by government) that could make it on its own?




ah,.....but too many of the end-users ARE the ones who ARE going into bankruptcy, pa........ the point of the AHCA is to help (Them/Wwe/Uus ) who don't have CEO "golden parachutes" contracts with FREE LIFETIME HEALTHCARE and where they get paid no matter how many end-user's go broke or die paying them.

and I don't know where you live but in these United States of America, the military IS a (funded by, controlled by, answers to...) .... branch of the government who's medical section has a LONG list of well documented (funding and service) issues as well.



_____________________________

I will allways be a knight, instead of a prince.

What would the internet be like if we couldn't say trump is a moron?

The Republican party complains government doesnt work for people, and then makes darn sure it cannot.

(in reply to papassion)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Is the time right for a PUBLIC OPTION? - 11/15/2013 2:19:46 PM   
papassion


Posts: 487
Joined: 3/28/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

The IRS?  They're pretty good.


You obviously missed all the news about the tons of money the IRS WASTES. Extravagant company outings, sending tons of money to the dead, massive overpayments, sending hundreds of refunds to a SINGLE overseas address, etc, etc, etc. Got any other examples?

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Is the time right for a PUBLIC OPTION? - 11/15/2013 2:38:12 PM   
itsSIRtou


Posts: 836
Joined: 3/20/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: papassion


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

The IRS?  They're pretty good.


You obviously missed all the news about the tons of money the IRS WASTES. Extravagant company outings, sending tons of money to the dead, massive overpayments, sending hundreds of refunds to a SINGLE overseas address, etc, etc, etc. Got any other examples?


all they were doing was following business's lead..... like super bowl & golf parties after taking the bailout money,....getting pay raises while outsourcing or massive worker layoffs are going on...... on top of the bush tax cuts they got to NOT produce AMERICAN jobs with for well over a decade that make what you complain about the IRS look like chicken feed...... every last penny ALSO out of YOUR pockets......neither one is anything less than shameful .....but where is your outrage about that? or have you missed all THAT news?




_____________________________

I will allways be a knight, instead of a prince.

What would the internet be like if we couldn't say trump is a moron?

The Republican party complains government doesnt work for people, and then makes darn sure it cannot.

(in reply to papassion)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Is the time right for a PUBLIC OPTION? - 11/15/2013 2:49:31 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: papassion


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

The IRS?  They're pretty good.


You obviously missed all the news about the tons of money the IRS WASTES. Extravagant company outings, sending tons of money to the dead, massive overpayments, sending hundreds of refunds to a SINGLE overseas address, etc, etc, etc. Got any other examples?


Oh, how about Bernie Madoff, BofA, American Express, Mastercard, Visa, NOrthwest Airlines, Panasonic,  Exxon, Enron, Washington Mutual, Wachovia,  Lehman Bros, AIG, Adelphia Communications, AOL Time Warner, Arthur Anderson, Bristol Squibb Meyers, CMS Energy, Duke Energy, Global Crossing, Halliburton, Merck, Perigrine, Quest, Reliant, Tyco, Worldcom, Xerox..........just to name a few?  

How much news you missing?

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Is the time right for a PUBLIC OPTION? - 11/15/2013 3:48:17 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Given that health insurance companies don't provide any healthcare services, and are by definition an expense, by bother wasting money on them?


Because they give free citizens a choice. Choice is important to free citizens. Therefore Choice is important in the United States.

This is so easy because we can always go back to the Constitutional preamble, we are guaranteed Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Liberty means nobody can force us to buy policies managed and controlled by the Government

Except the Constitution does say Americans can be made to buy insurance policies managed and controlled by the government. Your auto insurance is mandated by the government, what it covers is controlled by the government.

(in reply to Arturas)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Is the time right for a PUBLIC OPTION? - 11/15/2013 3:51:51 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

BTW, pursuit of happiness does not mean a guarantee of happiness and all that entails including health care. You don't like it? Move. The Dems are dead on this and as much as I like Dems, the current crop including Pelosi did "tread on citizens" and in America that means you are fucked when we find out, and we found out, all of us.

Sure. The fact is the Republicans just tried to blow up the world economy and the tea party is trying to primary those Republicans who broke ranks and voted to not default. No one is going to forget that the tea party lunatics just tried to cause a world wide recession that would have made the Great Depression look like a minor correction.

The minor problems with the ACA will be fixed, are actually already mostly fixed. In a year no one but rapid lunatic cons will even care about this nonsense.

(in reply to Arturas)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Is the time right for a PUBLIC OPTION? - 11/15/2013 4:28:26 PM   
itsSIRtou


Posts: 836
Joined: 3/20/2007
Status: offline 		Somebody sent me this today....in My personal email box..... I am going to address this in this forum.....

I'm not going to mention his name..... You know who you are....

quote:

ItsSIRtou
"why is the close-second leading cause of personal bankruptcy, behind credit card debt ( with the caveat that many people put some of their healthcare bills on a credit card.) ......healthcare bills? "



quote:

"person"

This bullshit claim has been debunked numerous times. Those statistics used any bankruptcy had any health related issue mentioned. In reality in the vast majority of the "health related bankruptcies" any unplanned financial expense would have caused bankruptcy and medical costs were rarely the most significant portion of the debt.

Perpetuators of this myth also never mention that medical bankruptcies affect credit ratings post emergence far less than of other debt.


so now we come to the point where you excuse the excesses of upper management of the healthcare system by downgrading the impact of the Escalating financial costs of healthcare on middle class & poor people even to the point where you actually think that these people filing bankruptcy give a damn about their credit rating?? ….Seriously???

Even I said SECOND leading cause.....


The point of the matter is that healthcare expenses ARE ANY KIND of a leading cause for bankruptcy makes it a problem that needs to be addressed like any other... HELLO??? You trying to blow it off in any form makes you look like all you give a damn about is that the CEOs and upper management get to be the wasters of your health care dollars that they are to the tune of MILLIONS for dollars….. And that's NOT a myth….

What rock has hit you in the head that doesn't have you believing that broke for a middle class or poor family…. Is just plain broke??

u make Me think the only reason you emailed Me directly is because you knew how nuts what were going to post was in front of everyone...



_____________________________

I will allways be a knight, instead of a prince.

What would the internet be like if we couldn't say trump is a moron?

The Republican party complains government doesnt work for people, and then makes darn sure it cannot.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Is the time right for a PUBLIC OPTION? - 11/15/2013 5:04:08 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: itsSIRtou
u make Me think the only reason you emailed Me directly is because you knew how nuts what were going to post was in front of everyone...

Look at the rest of this thread (and forum, come to that): do you really think that fear of looking like a nutcase would deter some of the posters in here?

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to itsSIRtou)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Is the time right for a PUBLIC OPTION? - 11/15/2013 5:15:15 PM   
itsSIRtou


Posts: 836
Joined: 3/20/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: itsSIRtou
u make Me think the only reason you emailed Me directly is because you knew how nuts what were going to post was in front of everyone...

Look at the rest of this thread (and forum, come to that): do you really think that fear of looking like a nutcase would deter some of the posters in here?


now that you mention it....good point

_____________________________

I will allways be a knight, instead of a prince.

What would the internet be like if we couldn't say trump is a moron?

The Republican party complains government doesnt work for people, and then makes darn sure it cannot.

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Is the time right for a PUBLIC OPTION? - 11/15/2013 8:28:36 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
Given that health insurance companies don't provide any healthcare services, and are by definition an expense, by bother wasting money on them?

Because they give free citizens a choice. Choice is important to free citizens. Therefore Choice is important in the United States.
This is so easy because we can always go back to the Constitutional preamble, we are guaranteed Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Liberty means nobody can force us to buy policies managed and controlled by the Government. Simple. Bingo. Any argument for ACA falls flat on the fact that Americans are Free and they told Obama to go fuck himself when he lied and tried to force Americans to do his will and not theirs.


Actually, the preamble does not contain anything like that. The Declaration of Independence, however, certainly does.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Arturas)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Is the time right for a PUBLIC OPTION? - 11/16/2013 2:38:49 AM   
eulero83


Posts: 1470
Joined: 11/4/2005
Status: offline 		FR

the problem with having only private sector to run health care are:
1) it is not a service that follows the "demand and supply law" because in 90% of cases you can't freely decide if buying or not the service, because it would impaire your life, and many times save your life.
2) it requires a very high initial investment, so there could be no private interest in providing the service at an affordable price just because there are other investments that are more prifitable for that ammount of money, while health is a basic need and so it should be always provided.

No most of the national health care systems are perfectly affordable, just consider the fact an hospital costs as one mile of an highway, so we are not talking about huge money compared to a nation's budget.

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Is the time right for a PUBLIC OPTION? - 11/16/2013 6:31:22 AM   
leonine


Posts: 409
Joined: 11/3/2009
From: [email protected]
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Given that health insurance companies don't provide any healthcare services, and are by definition an expense, by bother wasting money on them?


Because they give free citizens a choice. Choice is important to free citizens. Therefore Choice is important in the United States.


In every other country that claims to be civilised, there is government provided healthcare AND private healthcare. Anyone who doesn't like the service the state provides, and can afford it, has a free choice to go private.

Only in the US are the choices limited to pay or die. I guess that shows how important choice is to you.

_____________________________

Leo9


Gonna pack in my hand, pick up on a piece of land and build myself a cabin in the woods.
It's there I'm gonna stay, until there comes a day when this old world starts a-changing for the good.
- James Taylor

(in reply to Arturas)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Is the time right for a PUBLIC OPTION? - 11/16/2013 6:36:03 AM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Given that health insurance companies don't provide any healthcare services, and are by definition an expense, by bother wasting money on them?


Because they give free citizens a choice. Choice is important to free citizens. Therefore Choice is important in the United States.

This is so easy because we can always go back to the Constitutional preamble, we are guaranteed Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Liberty means nobody can force us to buy policies managed and controlled by the Government

Except the Constitution does say Americans can be made to buy insurance policies managed and controlled by the government. Your auto insurance is mandated by the government, what it covers is controlled by the government.


Whether the constitution say it or not hasn't been entirely settled.

I proffer no opinion at the moment, I just note the supremes have several potential cases in the pipeline.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 40
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