RE: CM Social Civility & Responsibility (Full Version)

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BitaTruble -> RE: CM Social Civility & Responsibility (11/18/2013 3:13:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BecomingV



Beyond the prescribed rules set by the site, what do you think is a useful way to communicate here, what are your wishes for how you would like to be treated when asking a question, admitting to confusion or relating an unpopular opinion?


As I am often confused by other humans, I just ask them if they can explain their POV in a different way. My questions are usually straight-forward-just-because I'm nosy sorts of questions and I do ramble on a bit sometimes, but I try to make it a point to bold my questions so that folks can scroll right to them without having to read my pre-rambles. I have no truble relating an unpopular opinion. It's not my fault if the rest of the entire world is so very, very wrong. [;)]

quote:

There are complaints about "mob" energy, or use of "straw man" fallacies and ego-bashing. I've read here that some have a concern that these ways of relating may hinder community safety in that it may serve to silence the fearful, thereby fostering ignorance.


I'm not overly concerned by safety being hindered in these forums per se. The X button works quite well at keeping vampires at bay.

quote:

Under what circumstances do you use the "hide" button?


I started using the hide button when the jessicabots were bombing the place. It also comes in real handy to rid myself of sights best left unseen. There are several times that I wish I could Clorox my eyeballs and that's coming from a woman who can't legally drive due to poor eye-sight!

quote:

Many have posted that they have made true friends here. Some others say that they learned to think of things in a new way. Others say they have heard of things here that they would not have been privy to anywhere else.


The first two are true for me. The last.. I can't say that I would not have picked up information learned here elsewhere.. I just happen to spend time here and I'm not at elsewhere!

quote:

What do you find to be of most value here?


The diversity.

quote:

Do you have a favorite anecdote on what you have learned from a thread?


Yes. I'm going to go see if I can find the thread.

I didn't find the original thread.. but here is the quote.


ORIGINAL: PryderiLoup

Part of the confusion, I think comes from the fact that for many of us, (not all) are more committed to this type of relationship because it fulfills us, and satisfies us like no vanilla relationship would. Because we value it more, we work harder at it. Then we say “Wow, these D/s relationships are…” Harder, deeper, etc. The reality is that we choose to work harder, communicate better, develop more trust.


quote:

What inspires you to respect the same poster, over time?



From my perspective, the highest respect I can give to someone on a message board is to read them. I read people who are interesting, can educate or illuminate or who make me laugh. P&R is hands down, the best place for laughs. [8D]



LadyPact -> RE: CM Social Civility & Responsibility (11/18/2013 3:44:22 PM)

There are a lot of questions contained in the original, so I'm going to break this up a bit in order to not lose My place.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BecomingV
Beyond the prescribed rules set by the site, what do you think is a useful way to communicate here, what are your wishes for how you would like to be treated when asking a question, admitting to confusion or relating an unpopular opinion?

I'm pretty used to the unpopular opinion part. Being one of the few leather people that are still on the forums puts Me in the category that I think tends to make it so.

If I do ask a question here, I want one key thing. Honest opinions. I don't need fluff and I don't need kid gloves. If I didn't want the truth, I wouldn't have asked.


quote:

There are complaints about "mob" energy, or use of "straw man" fallacies and ego-bashing. I've read here that some have a concern that these ways of relating may hinder community safety in that it may serve to silence the fearful, thereby fostering ignorance.

I see the "straw man" thing more in P&R more than anywhere else. There aren't a lot of topics that draw Me in there and they usually aren't the ones where the "straw man" gig comes up.

On mob mentality, I do think that we have a couple of posters who like to use that particular term to stir the pot. It's not every time and it's not every poster that uses it. Just a small minority.

As to silencing the fearful, I think that might be a stretch. If CM was the one and only way to acquire a kink education, I might give it a little bit more. Also, I think some personal fortitude is required. There are very few long term posters here, including Myself, who haven't come along to the boards, asked a DAQ, (dumb ass question) and got a few answers they didn't like during their history. It didn't run them off, make them give up on kink, or stop their learning process. In a lot of cases, that first DAQ was their first step to becoming sincerely valued posters here.

quote:

Under what circumstances do you use the "hide" button?

On the forum side, I honestly don't. (The profile side is a completely different story and I use hide/block quite frequently there.) On the other hand, I'm perfectly cool with being hidden. If somebody feels that I'm that bad and it improves their CM experience not to see what I have to say, I'd encourage them to use it.

quote:

Many have posted that they have made true friends here. Some others say that they learned to think of things in a new way. Others say they have heard of things here that they would not have been privy to anywhere else.


On the first, I absolutely have and that's probably the reason I'm still on the forums of CM. Some of those friends are still on CM and others are not. I've been very fortunate that I've had the opportunity to meet a lot of people from this place. For example, when we moved from GA to CA, I met people from the forums during the trip and was at another member's home within days of arriving. Many of the people that I've met from here, I'm still in regular contact with.

Since I'm a member of My local kink community and have been in various locations across the country, as far as learning to think of things in a new way, I get a lot of that from kinksters in person, too. This is not to say that CM doesn't contribute to that, also. It's just that CM isn't My primary source for it. I rely more heavily on munches, demos, cons, and other 'in person' education tools for it.

The stuff that I can't get in My local community is the international flair and I'm very interested in those subjects. The "Play like Grey" thread was a great example of this because it opened that opportunity for Me.

quote:

What do you find to be of most value here?


Currently, I'd probably have to go with entertainment/time wasting. There's education in there, too, but I think it's different than it was when I first joined. Fet changed a lot of things and most of the folks that I've known in the real time community have congregated there. Many CM threads are entry level questions and I'm not always interested in those.

quote:

Do you have a favorite anecdote on what you have learned from a thread?


This took Me a minute. I think it relates to a thread that JuliaOceana started regarding how she felt that kinky people were often negative specifically toward Daddy/lg dynamics. All kinds of people contributed to that thread to say they felt the same way because we were anything besides your standard male Dom/female submissive D/s. Leather people, non leather M/s, top/bottom with no power dynamic, people who don't play, people who play casually, edge players, etc, etc, etc.

The point was that we've all felt that way at times. No matter what kinks you like and which kinks you don't. Sometimes, we're also looking at things too personally and we need to check ourselves to see which is which.

quote:

What inspires you to respect the same poster, over time?


Staying power and genuine contributions.

quote:

Your thoughts?


A lot of this has revolved about how we see the discussions here and the other posters. My philosophy regarding this place and those who inhabit it tends to go like this. On any given day, for any variety of reasons, over the course of different subjects, I and any given poster are probably going to find topics on which we don't agree. At other times, we going to find areas where we agree and find those things in common. Sometimes, it's going to be in the same day. I can be furiously debating one subject with a poster on one thread and singing their praises on another.

That is a quality that I tend to also admire in others. It takes the braver (wo)man to have the courage of their convictions than to spend their time being concerned if they are making everybody happy all of the time. The people I tend to value most are the ones who are willing to say they don't agree on anything and everything and they don't base their opinions on what those opinions make others think of them.

I get told pretty often that I'm a respected poster around here. I'm not nearly as nice as Althena or as patient as OttersSwim. I just try to tell people what I think. Somehow, that seems to have value, even though I don't always present it in the best way.





littlewonder -> RE: CM Social Civility & Responsibility (11/18/2013 7:46:05 PM)

I'm fine with it just the way it is.

I've only ever put one person on hide in all the many years I've been here.

I don't come here to make friends. There are people here that I enjoy talking to but I can't really call them friends unless I know them i real life, face to face.

I'm just fine with the way I'm treated on here. I have no complaints at all.



OsideGirl -> RE: CM Social Civility & Responsibility (11/18/2013 8:13:35 PM)

To add my two cents:

Many here have a vast experiences that differ from mine, I find them interesting to read, even if I don't always "get" them.

But, one thing I wanted to specifically address: I tend to be blunt in my statements. For a couple of reasons. The first being that soft, fluffy head pats rarely get the message through when people have thrown common sense out the window. Second, because I think it's it's important for everyone to take responsibility for their learning path. Be proactive. Do your own research.

The best example I can give is that I belong to a soaper's forum. We frequently get people that come on and say "I want to start a business, how do I make soap?"

Well, soap, much like BDSM D/s can actually be harmful if done wrong. So, we don't tell those get rich quick folks how to make soap, we tell them where to find the answers for themselves, so that they can learn.

I feel the same way about BDSM D/s. I shouldn't have to tell you how to be a Master. You should be looking for every piece of knowledge you can find rather than looking for the quick fix. I'm happy to share my experiences but, I'm not giving you a "D/s Relationships for Dummies" guide. You need to find your own answers.

So, yeah, I'm hard on newbies that want all the answers handed to them.



TheHeretic -> RE: CM Social Civility & Responsibility (11/18/2013 10:24:13 PM)

I wish I'd seen this thread a bit earlier in the evening. I'll make an effort to get back with the right energy to offer my thoughts, after work tomorrow (assuming it doesn't get locked).

[:D]



Missokyst -> RE: CM Social Civility & Responsibility (11/19/2013 9:26:37 AM)

For me this is more about killing time. I quickly skim the posts I know will draw in the rancor of the mob. I know that what might have become an interesting discussion will soon focus on one point which has nothing to do with the topic.

When I open a topic, I don't expect any different behavior than that I have seen. So, I don't care about popular opinions and I don't mind putting things out there that might be off-putting. I am probably on several hide lists and that does not bother me.

I don't know what I find most valuable here except for the recipes which I sometimes use to feed the local homeless in our area. I have no anecdotes on what I have learned because I really don't find the responses here any different from regular life. There will always be the popular crowd, the gossips, those who stand in judgement, those that embrace anger, fantasy, joy, pleasure, fear, ect. This place is just a microcosm of society.

There are a few posters here I respect for their consistancy and that includes both popular members and those on the other end of the spectrum. I don't jump on the bandwagon to be part of the in crowd. But I will admit to dismissing people because I don't view what they do as BDSM.



kdsub -> RE: CM Social Civility & Responsibility (11/19/2013 9:40:28 AM)

Message boards of this type or unique in their anonymous nature and because of this the true nature of the posters will come out.

So often in conversations true feelings must be filtered through social constraints. Here on CM there are no constraints and you will receive an honest reply to your posts.

I believe you can get a better measure and understanding of a person on these boards than you can in normal social interactions simply because there is no reason for them to hide their true feelings.

So I am all for knowing who is an asshole and who is not…how about you.

Butch



Apocalypso -> RE: CM Social Civility & Responsibility (11/19/2013 9:50:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BecomingV
Beyond the prescribed rules set by the site, what do you think is a useful way to communicate here,


It's worth mentioning this is contextual, even across the site. What's acceptable in P&R is not necessarily acceptable in General BDSM.

Generally, just say what you mean. I think directness can actually be helpful for people and past threads have borne that out. Sometimes people really do need smacking round the head with a clue by four and are actually appreciative after it happens. That doesn't generally justify outright rudeness, though that's a thin and subjective line.

This is aspirational and I don't always stick to it as much as I should, but I try to remember that stupidity generally isn't a) something people consciously choose and b) isn't actually a serious crime. I'm aware that I have bad intellectual snob tendencies, so when I feel those kicking in I'll try and vacate the thread.

quote:

what are your wishes for how you would like to be treated when asking a question,


Answer it directly. Preferably, explain why that answer is being given. If you don't know the answer, don't pretend you do.

quote:

admitting to confusion


Similar to above. Explain where the confusion stems from. I don't think that's much of an issue here though- "Help, I'm new and confused" threads don't seem to meet with much snark.

quote:

or relating an unpopular opinion?


See, that's a complex one with me. Because I have a tendency to play up my unpopular opinions, sometimes to the point of self-caricature. So I really don't need people to pussyfoot round in their replies. If you disagree with me, say so and let's argue it out. Also, note there are some opinions that are unpopular, where I consider them offensive enough that I will not be, in any way, civil. Holocaust deniers can go fuck themselves. I don't feel the need to be nice to scum.

quote:

Under what circumstances do you use the "hide" button?


I don't think I ever have on here. On the other side, all the time, often for trivial reasons.

quote:

What do you find to be of most value here?


Similar to LadyPact, it's mostly entertainment these days. I probably miss different posters to her though. I mainly miss the more philosophical discussions we used to have here, which seem to have fallen out of favour.

quote:

Do you have a favorite anecdote on what you have learned from a thread?


It's more of a general process for me then a specific one.

quote:

What inspires you to respect the same poster, over time?


I prefer debate to discussion. I like well articulated posts which contain thought-provoking arguments to engage with. All other things being equal, I generally find intelligent posters who disagree with me more useful then intelligent posters who agree with me. Posters with a level of self-awareness that don't take themselves too seriously (pomposity just makes me want to poke people with sharp things until they explode). If people are making factual, as opposed to opinion based posts, I want sources. And I want them to be able to defend those sources properly rather then using them as a shield to hide behind.

Or, someone that makes me laugh regularly. I probably give people more of a by for that then I really should. I'd condone genocide if the perpetrator wore a pair of Groucho Marx glasses.





TheHeretic -> RE: CM Social Civility & Responsibility (11/19/2013 7:47:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BecomingV


Beyond the prescribed rules set by the site, what do you think is a useful way to communicate here, what are your wishes for how you would like to be treated when asking a question, admitting to confusion or relating an unpopular opinion?


If I think there is any hope of communication, I'm fine with engaging on whatever level seems to works. If people want to exchange ideas, I can do that, if people want to flip shit back and forth, that can be fun too. I'm mostly a creature of the P&R area, and we do play a little rough down there, from time to time.

quote:

There are complaints about "mob" energy, or use of "straw man" fallacies and ego-bashing. I've read here that some have a concern that these ways of relating may hinder community safety in that it may serve to silence the fearful, thereby fostering ignorance.


Fuck-em. I have no interest in participating in discussions that are limited to what the timid feel comfortable with.

quote:

Under what circumstances do you use the "hide" button?


When I see no point in allowing someone access to my screen. Typically, it goes to the character of the other individual, and a determination that there is no use in attempting to engage in any sort of communication with them. A couple more found their way onto the list by demonstrating themselves to be vile human beings, and I'd just as soon not take the time out for telling them to fuck off and watch their children die in a car fire.

quote:

What do you find to be of most value here?


This is an outlet for me. God knows, my wife would go nuts if she had to deal with all my rants on a daily basis.

quote:

Do you have a favorite anecdote on what you have learned from a thread?


Learned from a thread? No. I have seen a few spectacular train wrecks, and some very amusing meltdowns, though

quote:

What inspires you to respect the same poster, over time?


Intelligence, and wit.


A last word, regarding civility. This is a place where sadists gather to amuse ourselves. If you don't want needles shoved into your tits, don't stick them in the wrong places.



BecomingV -> RE: CM Social Civility & Responsibility (11/20/2013 8:30:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
A last word, regarding civility. This is a place where sadists gather to amuse ourselves. If you don't want needles shoved into your tits, don't stick them in the wrong places.


That's an interesting perspective. I know a few sadists from our local community but don't identify as a sadist myself. What I like most about them is that they seem very self-aware, very dedicated to the effect their actions have on others and perhaps because of the high risks they take, they seem to be more committed to the need for consent.

So, this leaves me with some questions when it comes to this assertion. Are you saying that participation in a BSDM thread is perceived as consent, as in, willing masochism?

This consent issue to me, would seem to make the difference between say, a sadistic criminal, versus a sadistic BDSM participant.

"tits in wrong places" is what I refer to... Is just being here the wrong place if a poster does not wish to be stuck?

These questions are not just meant to be directed to you. I wonder if other sadists could elaborate, too.





BecomingV -> RE: CM Social Civility & Responsibility (11/20/2013 8:33:19 AM)

Thanks everyone, for your thoughtful and insightful posts here. I think it has been fun to see the views behind the posts themselves and to toss around ideas on what we are doing here, how we are affected and how we may affect others.



needlesandpins -> RE: CM Social Civility & Responsibility (11/20/2013 10:03:00 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BecomingV

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
A last word, regarding civility. This is a place where sadists gather to amuse ourselves. If you don't want needles shoved into your tits, don't stick them in the wrong places.


That's an interesting perspective. I know a few sadists from our local community but don't identify as a sadist myself. What I like most about them is that they seem very self-aware, very dedicated to the effect their actions have on others and perhaps because of the high risks they take, they seem to be more committed to the need for consent.

So, this leaves me with some questions when it comes to this assertion. Are you saying that participation in a BSDM thread is perceived as consent, as in, willing masochism?

This consent issue to me, would seem to make the difference between say, a sadistic criminal, versus a sadistic BDSM participant.

"tits in wrong places" is what I refer to... Is just being here the wrong place if a poster does not wish to be stuck?

These questions are not just meant to be directed to you. I wonder if other sadists could elaborate, too.



you're being far too literal. it's an analogy meaning that people come here and act like a twat, but expect to be treated like kings and queens. they then get all butt hurt when we treat them like twats. there are people here that enjoy inflicting pain on others, they are hardly going to care that someone is getting their panties in a twist because they are not pandering to their fragile ego.

my analogy was exactly the same, just worded differently if you'd care to read it. it doesn't mean that those same sadists go ahead and inflict torment on others by sticking needles in their tits in real life without consent. what we mean is that each person is responsible for their own conduct, so if you don't like the responses you get, look to thy self first before whinging about it like a spoilt baby.

needles



directiveerror -> RE: CM Social Civility & Responsibility (11/20/2013 10:52:32 AM)

i don't use the hide button, even if perhaps i should. i'm too much of an advocate or free speech and a hater of hypocrisy to allow myself to silence the opinion of anyone even if i find their view misguided and deliberately petty.

i find it pretty simple to be 'civil' to people in person, i'm usually told i don't take things seriously enough. i have that 'boys will be boys' mentality with all humans and wouldn't try to change them for anything. online people seem to think i take everything too seriously(perhaps the way i type :/?) i have no way of knowing but its exactly the same, i say what i mean, offer my opinion, and more often than not play the devils advocate just to offer a differing viewpoint. i am almost always coming from a point of reference others are not familiar with(or do not wish to acknowledge) so i place a seedling and dont push the issue.

interacting with humans you just have to remember, a lot of people just want to be spiteful. they will look to find fault in everything they are unfamiliar with because that is what they have learned through years of dealing with the same.

sure one could follow the thought train that if you post on a forum meant for sadists you should expect to be humiliated... but i find that along similar lines to someone telling a rape survivor that she deserved it for going outside without a male escort. maybe she would have been less likely to have been assaulted sure. but should she give up her rights because of risk? hell no, you live how you would anyway, unaffected by people around you and when shit happens you deal with it and move on.

in short: do i think people should be responsible for their actions and aware of how it affects others, especially those less aware and still forming opinions of the world, yes undoubtedly. do i think they will no of course not, it is human nature to want to be right, even if the person you are proving yourself right against is someone whose first encounter with others is going to be one of negligence that will shape their entire outlook of humanity. everyone should be free to make choices as to how they affect themselves and one can always hope that they choose to use that right to shape the lives of others for the better.... but when they don't we can only hope to pick up the pieces and help show those around them that there are even more possible paths for consciousness to take than they ever imagined.



NuevaVida -> RE: CM Social Civility & Responsibility (11/20/2013 5:06:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BecomingV

Beyond the prescribed rules set by the site, what do you think is a useful way to communicate here, what are your wishes for how you would like to be treated when asking a question, admitting to confusion or relating an unpopular opinion?


I prefer more positive ideas and solutions, rather than put-downs. But that's the way I'm wired. Put-downs and mockery are a huge turn-off to me, and I tune out. This means I'm less prone to receive what they're trying to tell me, and less prone to read their posts down the road. I think there are ways of disagreeing with people without being rude to them. Some call this "fluff" and I'm OK with that. I do quite well communicating this way in the real world.

quote:


There are complaints about "mob" energy, or use of "straw man" fallacies and ego-bashing. I've read here that some have a concern that these ways of relating may hinder community safety in that it may serve to silence the fearful, thereby fostering ignorance.


"Mob" mentality has been thrown about here since I joined this site many years ago. I think it ebbs and flows, but I don't pay it much mind. Sometimes what's just a bunch of friends agreeing with something gets labeled as a "clique" when it's not. I've never much been an "in crowd" kind of person, and I'm totally fine with that. If there are mobs or cliques, then coolio for them, it's where they need to be at the time. Doesn't bother me.

quote:


Under what circumstances do you use the "hide" button?

It's a rarity for me. Years ago I had one poster on hide because just about everything he typed - in the name of humor - was offensive to me. Others just loved him. I chose to not want to see what he had to say.

Usually I just skip past someone's post if I generally don't like what they have to say. But I don't hide them because there may be a rare gem in one of their posts.

quote:


Many have posted that they have made true friends here. Some others say that they learned to think of things in a new way. Others say they have heard of things here that they would not have been privy to anywhere else.

I have made some very good, real life friends here. Some I'm in tough with regularly, some not so much anymore. I am grateful for that.

I did learn to think with a more open mind here, for many reasons, and I am glad for that. I also learned to express my own views better, too. I love hearing different perspectives, even if I don't agree with them.

quote:


What do you find to be of most value here?


Learning about the plethora of ideas and ways of doing things that work for others, whether or not they'd work for me. Also, new ways of looking at my own world and how that can apply. I've discovered a lot about myself here.

quote:


Do you have a favorite anecdote on what you have learned from a thread?

None come to mind at the moment.

quote:


What inspires you to respect the same poster, over time?

Genuineness. Humility. Honesty. Not trying to one-up others. Kindness. Expressing oneself with clarity. Humor. The ability to try to get someone to see a point without criticizing them. Being positive.

quote:


Your thoughts?



Cool thread! I don't have a lot of time these days to post here, but the views expressed in these forums, and some of the folks I've talked to from here have inspired me to think much differently, and I love that.



TheHeretic -> RE: CM Social Civility & Responsibility (11/20/2013 10:56:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: needlesandpins


you're being far too literal. it's an analogy meaning that people come here and act like a twat, but expect to be treated like kings and queens. they then get all butt hurt when we treat them like twats. there are people here that enjoy inflicting pain on others, they are hardly going to care that someone is getting their panties in a twist because they are not pandering to their fragile ego.




Nicely said, Needles.

[:D]



BecomingV -> RE: CM Social Civility & Responsibility (11/20/2013 11:31:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: needlesandpins


quote:

ORIGINAL: BecomingV

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
A last word, regarding civility. This is a place where sadists gather to amuse ourselves. If you don't want needles shoved into your tits, don't stick them in the wrong places.


That's an interesting perspective. I know a few sadists from our local community but don't identify as a sadist myself. What I like most about them is that they seem very self-aware, very dedicated to the effect their actions have on others and perhaps because of the high risks they take, they seem to be more committed to the need for consent.

So, this leaves me with some questions when it comes to this assertion. Are you saying that participation in a BSDM thread is perceived as consent, as in, willing masochism?

This consent issue to me, would seem to make the difference between say, a sadistic criminal, versus a sadistic BDSM participant.

"tits in wrong places" is what I refer to... Is just being here the wrong place if a poster does not wish to be stuck?

These questions are not just meant to be directed to you. I wonder if other sadists could elaborate, too.



you're being far too literal. it's an analogy meaning that people come here and act like a twat, but expect to be treated like kings and queens. they then get all butt hurt when we treat them like twats. there are people here that enjoy inflicting pain on others, they are hardly going to care that someone is getting their panties in a twist because they are not pandering to their fragile ego.

my analogy was exactly the same, just worded differently if you'd care to read it. it doesn't mean that those same sadists go ahead and inflict torment on others by sticking needles in their tits in real life without consent. what we mean is that each person is responsible for their own conduct, so if you don't like the responses you get, look to thy self first before whinging about it like a spoilt baby.

needles


Hi needles,

I did read the thread twice which is why I directed those questions to all sadists. I have not responded to each post because my OP is intended to start a discussion among us, rather than the kind of original post which seeks individual advice. I'm not seeking agreement or disagreement... just a flow of perspectives, but will answer any questions directed to me, specifically, of course.

Yep, I can be a very literal thinker. Early on, I learned that most others process differently. What I've done with that is to train myself to accept my first perception (which is often hilarious), push that aside and perceive a second time. In person, that makes me appear slow to respond and not "quick on the uptake." The downside is that I have to take 2 steps for what takes others one step. The upside is that it weeds out impatient, demanding types and I find it easy to think outside the box. I also think it is why I tend towards pragmatic views and often consider egos as a secondary concern.

In this instance, when reading your idea that I am too literal, my mind went immediately here -the Heretic's statement about needles and connected that to your name and pictured your avatar being shoved into me. LOL See what I mean? So, yeah, you are not wrong! Having said that...

The point I am trying to make is that there are many words describing people who enjoy hurting others. Only one of them is "sadist" and in BDSM, that means the person has found a way of meeting their own needs without violating the rights of others.

Sadists, at least here, in R/L, are fun, caring and responsible people. Sadist does not equal mean-spirited, in my experience.

I'm open to other views on this. Right now, I reject the notion that when the boards become mean-spirited, that this is a reflection of the presence of sadists. I've seen that people who identify on any part on the BDSM continuum can lose focus on the ideas and devolve into personal ridicule or such.

If I were a sadist, I don't think I'd accept responsibility for creating a social tone that doesn't involve the consent of others. And, that's what I am questioning here.

The Heretic's statement reflects many other people's thoughts, too. I've read that one a lot in previous threads. If only as a Devil's Advocate, consider the converse, "This is where a lot of generous-hearted, intelligent and civil people gather to amuse themselves. If you don't want to participate in that, then don't be surprised when your vitriol or immaturity are viewed as insignificant."

ETA - "your" is meant in a general sense, not specific to any individual



LadyPact -> RE: CM Social Civility & Responsibility (11/21/2013 12:11:52 AM)

There have been a few times over the years that I've pulled the sadist card on the forums. Sometimes under the circumstances when somebody comes along, acts like a royal twatwaffle, and then has a meltdown in the middle of their own thread about how people should feel sorry for them about their own circumstances, even after they've treated other people like sh*t. Those are the rare instances. I think I've said it as a joke more often, but you know how that goes. On a personal level, I'm one of those folks who's humor doesn't always come through well on a written medium. (LaT is about the only person who 'gets' Me on a regular basis.) I can be laughing My tail off because I think something is funny and I'm the only one who gets the joke.

Of course, this is a situation of My own making. 999/1000 times, My first response on a thread is going to be a serious one. (I also tend to be quite literal.) I try to keep in mind to address the OP first, even when other things on a thread are more interesting. On top of this, I tend to see the abstract as well.

While I'm sure I've got some examples out there that might make folks think otherwise, I'm really not sitting here waiting to pounce so I can inflict pain on people via the written word.



TheHeretic -> RE: CM Social Civility & Responsibility (11/21/2013 10:42:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: directiveerror

i don't use the hide button, even if perhaps i should. i'm too much of an advocate or free speech and a hater of hypocrisy to allow myself to silence the opinion of anyone even if i find their view misguided and deliberately petty.



The power has been out here, most of the evening, but I was a bit curious about this. How is it "silencing someone's opinion," to remove their access to a particular individual? Should all Democrats keep their radio tuned in to Rush Limbaugh every day, and all the Republicans watch Ed Shultz every evening? I hardly watch any television at all. Am I attacking the free speech of the networks, and the artists they employ?

I'm downright militant when it comes to issues of the First Amendment, but just because I'll load my guns over the right to religious freedom, doesn't place me under any obligation to invite the Baptists into my home, when they come a-knockin at my door. Hell, I don't even have to open the door to begin with.

Inherent in the right of free speech by person A, is the right of person B to make a judgement about it, and the person speaking it, and to express themselves in response. One of my favorite side benefits of free speech, is how easy it makes it, to spot the shitheads, and the useless, and the pointless.



directiveerror -> RE: CM Social Civility & Responsibility (11/21/2013 11:24:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: directiveerror

i don't use the hide button, even if perhaps i should. i'm too much of an advocate or free speech and a hater of hypocrisy to allow myself to silence the opinion of anyone even if i find their view misguided and deliberately petty.



The power has been out here, most of the evening, but I was a bit curious about this. How is it "silencing someone's opinion," to remove their access to a particular individual? Should all Democrats keep their radio tuned in to Rush Limbaugh every day, and all the Republicans watch Ed Shultz every evening? I hardly watch any television at all. Am I attacking the free speech of the networks, and the artists they employ?

I'm downright militant when it comes to issues of the First Amendment, but just because I'll load my guns over the right to religious freedom, doesn't place me under any obligation to invite the Baptists into my home, when they come a-knockin at my door. Hell, I don't even have to open the door to begin with.

Inherent in the right of free speech by person A, is the right of person B to make a judgement about it, and the person speaking it, and to express themselves in response. One of my favorite side benefits of free speech, is how easy it makes it, to spot the shitheads, and the useless, and the pointless.



i would assume that if i was to block someone on a message board i was reading it would somehow be directly connected to me. i.e. if i write something others are free to respond to it. personal preference and were it coincides is an entirely other matter. i completely agree with your last two sections, my problem with the first would only be in that you take a generalized approach to include "all" individuals into a matter about personal responsibility. of course it would be down right silly to say all of anyone should listen to all of anything, even one person cant listen to all of something there simply isnt enough time and there is far too much information in the world. one person can however choose whether or not to listen to those that choose to confront them on an individual basis and take time to respond to what they put them selves out there to discuss.

to put it to that metaphor: if someone turns on rush limbaugh in a car full of liberals they should expect to be scoffed at, if they turn it on knowing they are in a car full of liberals it would be just as silly if when scoffed at they told everyone to get out of the car(unless it was their car.... but thats taking the metaphor past its original point) as it would be to expect everyone to listen in silence.

television networks are not specifically targeting an individual there is no speech/response relationship. if everyone in a given area does not watch a show they may stop offering it..... in those cases it is reversed. they are in the place to offer information, watching it would be the message board equivalent of responding, not watching it would be the equivalent of not reading the message.... since a television company never entered into any personal agreement or dialogue with any individual i find it hard to make that correlate to the original point, but i digress.... i hope that assists in clearing up what may have been misconstrued in the first message, rather than farther convoluting it.



BecomingV -> RE: CM Social Civility & Responsibility (11/22/2013 10:45:14 AM)

The hide button is a tool of time management. It's also about taking responsibility for my own experience. I don't hide someone who disagrees with my views.

I hide those whose posts, regardless of whom they direct them to, show a lack of respect for others, repeatedly.

I also hide those who think the answer for all is therapy, prayer or a restraining order. If a poster repeats themselves, then once I know that, I have no need to read it again. It's like giving full attention to learning the ABC's again, otherwise. It's not that those suggestions are invalid... it's that they are potentially dangerous and to use them as a knee-jerk reaction or a one-size fits all band aid; shows me a limited and self-serving, thinking process.

For instance, Gavin De Becker, author of The Gift of Fear, and expert on prediction of violence, advises that restraining orders NOT be used without individual assessment. This is because some offenders maybe experience the RO as an escalation that tips them over the edge into murder. While I'm not saying a post has the power to cause murder, I am saying that words do influence others. Posters who take responsibility for their influence hold my attention.

Take the "I'm in a long-term or successful relationship and this is my credential for advising others" sources. I disagree with the premise. I think experience matters a whole lot but when it comes to advising others, if humility and an acknowledgement of differences is not also present, then these posts are useless. They may as well write, "I'm so insecure that I use my relationship, and your 1) lack of one or 2) struggle with one, as a basis for telling myself that I am wise and you are not as wise." Again, I am talking about the repetition of the viewpoint as well as the pomposity itself. That is different than saying that we couldn't all benefit from the sharing of the experienced and successful.

The chronic use of the suggestion of therapy says more about the poster than about the reader, I've found. Robert Hare, author and expert on psychopathy (he created the checklist on psychopaths), found that current therapies are used by incarcerated psychopaths as tools for learning how to manipulate the vulnerabilities of future victims more successfully. The statistics bear out that psychopaths come out of prison to commit more intensely violent crimes after having been in therapy, than without therapy. Some posters do lack conscience and no amount of therapy will change that. It only teaches them the words.

In terms of domestic violence or domestic abuse victims, therapy can work on an individual basis. Domestic violence is a personal behavior choice that we each, as individuals either engage in, or don't. No victim is responsible for the behavior choice of another. I do, however, believe that victims need to look at themselves should any second occurrence happen. Did they choose to stay? Did they choose to not protect kids? That sort of thing. In terms of being an abuser, the same questions apply. Beyond the obvious... why are they choosing violence and what other choices work better... they should question why they would stay with someone whose presence supports their weakness (violence). I think it gets confusing for people to hear, "get therapy" in these situations. Because both parties need some introspection and changes in behavior choices, it does not follow that this is a couples or relationship issue. Some victims think that couples' therapy will work. Rarely, it has worked, but only after the couple has separated, taken responsibility for learning new ways of relating and has dealt with their individual issues that made them relate in those ways to begin with. Even then, it is rare to heal the relationship because it takes a very, very long time of living apart first.

So, IMO, "get therapy" is too limited a response to be considered valuable, and may at times, be destructive. Posters who advise therapy while also providing reasons they think the other person's situation would benefit (specific to them, rather than, "It worked for me; it works for all), are of interest to me, so I want to see those posts.

These are some examples of my overall use of the hide button to manage time. Again, it is the repetitive nature of those kinds of posts that make them not worth my time. On a less serious note, it's also boring and begins to sound like Charlie Brown's teacher, "blah, blah, blah." When given 100 posts to read, I've found it rewarding to hide posters who have nothing original to contribute. There are simply too many enlightened, kind and interesting posts and I want more time to focus there.

Freedom of speech means I get to say what I wish (barring inciting violence). It doesn't mean I get to make others listen to me.

ETA - some clarity



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