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Ponder Legitamacy - 7/3/2006 11:29:22 AM   
aleshaDreams


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HUMMM I have been reflecting on some threads started on the board and questions that at some point or another I have pondered myself. And, this mental note that keeps surfacing is that many a time when we seem to express distaste for someone elses conduct it is because there are exist our own underlying issues that are making critizms of others justified.  Let me give an example, many many years ago my mother found me sulking, and asked why.  I was distraught that all my friends were going out and having fun, and I was left at home and unable to have any.  The turn of events is that in fact I made choices in my life, and in light of these choices I had to change aspects of my life that perhaps I was not ready to or being forced to.  The bottom line is that it came down to jealousy of others, or envy (call it what you must).  Why one person has an easy road compared to another is really in essence a reflection of choice, and who the hell are we to critize those.  I think this treads pretty close to giving advice to strangers, unless you are prepared to deal with the outcome and should the stranger accept your advice, why give it unless you know the individual on a personal bases and know a good deal about what makes them tick or not.  Our good will advice can in effect be depremental on another, and the ramifications of bad advice not too many stand to take responsibility for, rather pass it off as saying you had the choice to take it or leave it.  Perhaps a more appropriate method would be to provide viable options.

I don't wish to trash anyone on this board but reading the constant recommendations to leave that Dom, walk away blah blah blah without knowing the whole dynamic has become a fustration in my mind.  What.....should we all walk away when the going gets tough, or should we standup and fight for those that have meaning in our lives so that they stay close.

Yes I know certainly there is the common sense issue, but then again common sense to you may not be common sense to another.

KOM (if I may be so bold to use one of His posts as example - I have much admiration for the Man) posted an news article clipping in another post.  There seemed to be awhole lot of people responding on character of the individuals without knowledge of them.  How do we do that without that knowledge?  The people that in fact actually new of this person, KOM did not even go to such lengths to bash the person, but others took liberty.  I just don't understand how we can do this so freely, and at such great lengths?
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RE: Ponder Legitamacy - 7/3/2006 11:32:46 AM   
Caretakr


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Because seeing other humans suffering strikes a chord in us that must be answered-or we feel helpless.

< Message edited by Caretakr -- 7/3/2006 11:33:03 AM >

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RE: Ponder Legitamacy - 7/3/2006 11:36:49 AM   
aleshaDreams


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Caretakr perhaps you could elaborate on your statement exponentially so that logic can be seen.  Thank you kindly

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RE: Ponder Legitamacy - 7/3/2006 11:39:41 AM   
Caretakr


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You cannot argue this statement with logic.
The answer is emotive.

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RE: Ponder Legitamacy - 7/3/2006 11:48:06 AM   
feastie


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The woman in the article from KoM's post allowed a man she'd never met to induce her to the sexual abuse of her own child and sending pictures of the abuse to him.  This is not supposition or assumption, as the woman is standing trial and the trial has been covered by the news media. 

Is there anything in that situation which you can excuse while castigating anyone for dealing out harsh judgments about this woman and this man?

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RE: Ponder Legitamacy - 7/3/2006 11:48:19 AM   
darkinshadows


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I dont think that particular thread bashed the individuals persay - but the judgements are based on fact that has been presented in court.  People do not have to know anyone to make an assumption.
I will never know MLK - but I respect and have admiration for the man.  De'Sade, I will never know, but its a man that, but my standards, was a horrid man.  These are based on the facts as they are presented by writings, by word of mouth, vicarious experiences or by the media.  Humans make choices and part of those choices is to make a decision through judgement.
Assumptions are based on unverified information, judgements are made on the supported information.
 
I do not agree with Caretakr that its about helplessness.  Its human nature to choose.  Its nature to make a choice.
I do not feel helpless for someone else.  I respond because I have the freedom to exist.
It's all about choice and decisions.
 
Peace and Rapture


< Message edited by darkinshadows -- 7/3/2006 11:49:54 AM >


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RE: Ponder Legitamacy - 7/3/2006 12:30:48 PM   
Caretakr


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To wield power is the opposite of being helpless.

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RE: Ponder Legitamacy - 7/3/2006 12:34:41 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


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I suggest walking away when I think the person made a bad choice to start with, or when I don't see any reasonable road to recovery once it's gotten to a certain point of dramatic destruction.

But if I see a sincere effort to communicate, and people taking responsibility for their choices, I give them what I consider sufficient advice and perspectives to help them start helping themselves.

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RE: Ponder Legitamacy - 7/3/2006 12:38:39 PM   
justheather


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quote:

ORIGINAL: aleshaDreams
Yes I know certainly there is the common sense issue, but then again common sense to you may not be common sense to another.



Actually, I think it is called "common" sense because people agree that based on natural understanding and human experience, a person would be expected to know the value or relative prudence of the thing in question.

Hence, the term "common". Common meaning "shared", as opposed to "not rare".

Unless, of course, a person comes from a culture and life course so radically different that they hold nothing in common with the general public in question. But really, is that they type of person we are talking about here?

< Message edited by justheather -- 7/3/2006 12:41:03 PM >


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I want the scissors to be sharp
And the table perfectly level
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And paste me in that book you always carry.
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RE: Ponder Legitamacy - 7/3/2006 1:00:18 PM   
darkinshadows


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr

To wield power is the opposite of being helpless.

And which is the most positive to have?
Peace and Rapture


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.dark.




...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

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RE: Ponder Legitamacy - 7/3/2006 1:05:12 PM   
Caretakr


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rhetorical.

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RE: Ponder Legitamacy - 7/3/2006 1:28:05 PM   
Raindrops


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Hi, is a submissive person supposed to be helpless?

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RE: Ponder Legitamacy - 7/3/2006 2:04:11 PM   
sophia37


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Maybe I have a different take on this. I think what you see on this board is not so much advice as it is opinion. If it's taken as a whole, you might even see some ideas and thoughts arise, that might well be of help to a poster who asks a quuestion. I know I've seen some posts that actually were helpful to me.

Yes yes theres lots of bashing. And sometimes I wanna laugh and sometimes I wanna spit. But that's all part of finding a few bits of gold dust in the river. You gotta do a lot of sifting.

I really don't fear that people here will take some crazy opinion and go out and do something stupid with it. I give people credit for having a brain. Yes we're emotional, tempramental and full of ourselves. But we're also interesting enough to keep reading stupid and smart replies alike.

 I think you should just be the kind caring thoughtful person that you are, and respond in the most helpful manner that you choose. That would be your contribution. And a good one it would be. xoxoxxo Sophie

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RE: Ponder Legitamacy - 7/3/2006 5:18:56 PM   
aleshaDreams


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feastie, thanks for the contribution....... the actions of the individuals inexcusable, the characters however whom are we to say.  Dynamics of their lives, influences through the years that make them act and behave in the fashion they have, we have not a clue about besides what the defense and prosecution have decided to use as argument.  (hell I am not saying the actions are right).  A person on the street homeless, I experience many calling useless, a thorn to society, scum amounst a few character definitions.  Have we looked at why the person is on the street? For the most part people do not, rather attact the character of a person prior to having any knowledge.

What I seek clarification on is why we are so quick to judge the character of individuals we have little to no knowledge of?

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RE: Ponder Legitamacy - 7/3/2006 5:28:03 PM   
aleshaDreams


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justheather, common sense would tell me in accordance with the 'general public' that this forum should be abolished and all players here reformed to agree with the rest of society.  Common sense tells me that being bound and tortured are not normal in accordance with the rules and structure of society.  But hey, if you enjoy it have fun. 

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RE: Ponder Legitamacy - 7/3/2006 5:40:39 PM   
catize


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quote:

 
What I seek clarification on is why we are so quick to judge the character of individuals we have little to no knowledge of?  


The information I have tells me that 2 adults perpetrated harm on another human; that, in my judgment, means they are not of good character. 

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RE: Ponder Legitamacy - 7/3/2006 5:42:52 PM   
aleshaDreams


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sophia, in response to the following part of your response:  "I really don't fear that people here will take some crazy opinion and go out and do something stupid with it. I give people credit for having a brain."  I personally made this assumption at one time too, I gave a person 3 options to a dilemma they were in, and they chose the most unstable option but the easiest way out for them rather than being accountable for their actions.  The person ended up in a physcologist chair for some time following this decision ,,,,,, and there was a burden that I carried for quite some time and was questioned as to wether charges could be laid against me for giving unfounded advice which to this date I protest I did not do.  Yes people make choices, but we also have the power to lay the foundation for bad decisions also that we might assume are good, and may very well be good for us, but we can not assume they are good for another.

I am prone to say,...... tell people to walk with wisdom and to use their own common sense as a backdrop.

< Message edited by aleshaDreams -- 7/3/2006 5:47:21 PM >

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RE: Ponder Legitamacy - 7/3/2006 5:46:41 PM   
aleshaDreams


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catize, thanks, I am not analyzing the news paper article; I am inquiring on a general human behaviour of passing judgement without knowledge, drawing conclusions without doing the research, making statements without sound reason, and why is it that we do this.

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RE: Ponder Legitamacy - 7/3/2006 5:49:15 PM   
feastie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: aleshaDreams

feastie, thanks for the contribution....... the actions of the individuals inexcusable, the characters however whom are we to say.  Dynamics of their lives, influences through the years that make them act and behave in the fashion they have, we have not a clue about besides what the defense and prosecution have decided to use as argument.  (hell I am not saying the actions are right).  A person on the street homeless, I experience many calling useless, a thorn to society, scum amounst a few character definitions.  Have we looked at why the person is on the street? For the most part people do not, rather attact the character of a person prior to having any knowledge.

What I seek clarification on is why we are so quick to judge the character of individuals we have little to no knowledge of?



When one reaches adulthood, he accepts personal responsibility for his actions.  Life might not be kind to a lot of people, a lot of people suffer trauma, abuse, etc.
Being an adult means that you make choices.  Just because you were abused as a child, doesn't mean that you have to abuse.  Just because you were raised by an alcoholic doesn't mean you have to become one as well.  Just because you're downtrodden and feeling lonely doesn't mean that you sacrifice your child to end your own pain.

An example.  My father was a severely abused child.  I've spoken of some of the horrors he and his sisters endured as children.  He became an adult and he made the choice that he would never be like his father.  He never abused us.  I've never seen him drunk. 

I'm often lonely.  It's been a long time since I've had someone in my life.  I've become fairly apathetic about it these days, but at the times when it was the worst, I would never have consented to abusing either of my children to please some guy on the internet.

We don't need to know anything about those two people, other than these choices they've made.  There is no excuse for what they've done, none.  I don't care what kind of childhood they've had, what kind of abuse they may have suffered, their choice does not stand.  God is the only one that can truly judge them.  He will decide their ultimate fate.  Here on earth, it's we the people.  I feel no guilt in feeling or expressing my opinion of these two people. 

That being said, opinions on others on the board, their situations, the information they've asked for, etc., are formed and given based on the information presented.  I think a lot of times, the information we're given probably has many holes in it.  The responsibility for that lies with the OP of that thread, not with those that reply.

It's also the responsibility of the OP of that thread to consider the source of the advice and act accordingly.  Me, I probably wouldn't take much advice from a forum board.  I may ask for opinions of others, to assist me in making my decision, but I'd not allow any comments here to make that decision for me.

I am responsible for my actions and my choices.  No one else.  Even if I were owned, in the end, I am responsible for my personal actions and choices. 

_____________________________

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Disclaimer: Any views expressed in any post are my opinions only. They may or may not be yours.

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RE: Ponder Legitamacy - 7/3/2006 5:51:51 PM   
SmokeyM


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raindrops

Hi, is a submissive person supposed to be helpless?


Some would actually agrue with the answer to this one Raindrops.
 
- Smokey

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