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RE: Control - 7/3/2006 5:36:41 PM

Vancouver_cinful

Posts: 1911
Joined: 2/3/2004
Status: offline

This post has really made me think, RM, and it's clarified something for me that needed a firm stance.

I guess the answer for me is to put aside any expectations that I should submit and thus prove to myself and my partner that I really am a sub, and accept that if the compulsion to submit arises, then great. If it doesn’t, then it’s not meant to be.

It may be frustrating to be without an outlet for my natural need to submit…but putting pressure on myself to perform in a submissive way just destroys some of the joy that I feel about being submissive.

It’s absolutely not worth it.

Thanks for this thread. {HUG}

_____________________________

Cin

quote:

My Karma Account is huge, but I just can't seem to make a withdrawal!!

http://cinful.wordpress.com

(in reply to Vancouver_cinful)

Post #: 21

RE: Control - 7/3/2006 5:40:39 PM

Caretakr

Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PlayfulOne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr

quote:

ORIGINAL: PlayfulOne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr

A few days spent pissing into a bucket in a cage, might convince these "do_mes" that forced control is not as exciting as they might think.

lol Care, it usually convinces them to do_me their way out the door.

K

I know, why do you think I find it appealing?

I know care, We had one who was here interacting with us who talked an excellent game, but in the end showed she was a self centered do_me. She has since been directed to the exit and thinks I am overly harsh. I am not sure how I will live with myself, :).

K

You do realize that she will report you to the union, and that they will take away your priness cookies?

(in reply to PlayfulOne)

Post #: 22

RE: Control - 7/3/2006 5:58:48 PM

Bearlee

Posts: 2311
Joined: 10/25/2004
From: South Central CO
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vancouver_cinful

This post has really made me think, RM, and it's clarified something for me that needed a firm stance.

I guess the answer for me is to put aside any expectations that I should submit and thus prove to myself and my partner that I really am a sub, and accept that if the compulsion to submit arises, then great. If it doesn’t, then it’s not meant to be.

It may be frustrating to be without an outlet for my natural need to submit…but putting pressure on myself to perform in a submissive way just destroys some of the joy that I feel about being submissive. It’s absolutely not worth it.

Thanks for this thread. {HUG}

Isn’t it funny…I generally just AM submissive. I’m a pleaser…I want others happy. While this sounds far more Pollyanna than I am, it really is true. Okay, ya’all know from my posts that I’m no milquetoast; I am an independent woman….but it is IN me to please; and not based on performance toward someone I want to impress. Yup, I can call a donkey an ass with the best of ‘em…but what IS that really about? It doesn’t make me feel comfortable to debate what ‘Is’ is…

Oh gawd…PLEASE do not think this is directed at you cinful……..it is NOT. This is a general response. Dang, I do hate how we all must clarify our points of view so as not to trod upon another’s belief.

(in reply to Vancouver_cinful)

Post #: 23

RE: Control - 7/3/2006 5:59:58 PM

LadyHugs

Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Dear Bearlee, Ladies and Gentlemen;

How about relieving yourself into a funnel? That has been done, as slaves earn the right to have a litter box in time. Newspapers on the floor and or a twig on a spot over a drain. Ah--so many ways to ammend behavior.

Respectfully submitted with a bit of sadistic wit,
Lady Hugs

(in reply to Bearlee)

Post #: 24

RE: Control - 7/3/2006 6:04:42 PM

Bearlee

Posts: 2311
Joined: 10/25/2004
From: South Central CO
Status: offline

HUH? ...are we back in the box-training thread?

<winks @ the Lady>

Actually...I'd rather wet right into da box...and me thinks so would he. LOL I've become fairly proficient directing my stream (per instructions online). I can about ‘go’ where he wants me… <big grinz>

(in reply to LadyHugs)

Post #: 25

RE: Control - 7/3/2006 6:26:08 PM

Caretakr

Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHugs

Dear Bearlee, Ladies and Gentlemen;

How about relieving yourself into a funnel? That has been done, as slaves earn the right to have a litter box in time. Newspapers on the floor and or a twig on a spot over a drain. Ah--so many ways to ammend behavior.

Respectfully submitted with a bit of sadistic wit,
Lady Hugs

I still think the diapers look cuter.

(in reply to LadyHugs)

Post #: 26

RE: Control - 7/3/2006 6:32:24 PM

LadyHugs

Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Dear RavenMuse, Ladies and Gentlemen;

I do agree with your assessments, concerning brats.

In my mind's eye, a brat really provokes response from a dominant, as to cause a response to use discipline/corporal. It really is a forced from below or 'topping from the bottom' in my mind's eye, as it really is a manipulation to which it is a 'control' a brat uses to get what they want. To stop the brat behavior, the dominant has to give in and administer the discipline. Whereas, a slave would just approach and request 'slave maintainence' such as, kneeling with their favorite flogger, cane or such; which is a silent request, plea to be fed.

That said, I will submit for consideration that there are those who pursue the dynamic more as a parent/child and or Daddy/Mommy-child; to which being brat is merely in 'role' with the dynamic. Unlike, the full time in-scene and out-of-scene behavior of a 'brat,' to which makes sport of everybody in a dominant role, depends on the knee jerk reaction by being a brat. I believe that the line to which separates the Daddy/Mother-child style of the relationship from the brat/rude/manipulator/control sorts, is the boundaries to where it is defined and boundaries are not crossed in certain situations, such as public/vanilla venues.

In my mind's eye, a slave submits from the heart, the spirit, the soul and or the belly. The want to please for the pleasure of pleasing. That is their reward, to be recognized as a valued enhancement to a Master's/Mistress's life. Their service is art, it also is healing and soothing, it feeds the dominant with energy and gives us the vessel to fill in return. I do not wish to be placed into the position of discipline/punishment. I rather embrace my slave with affection, praise and all things positive.

Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs

(in reply to RavenMuse)

Post #: 27

RE: Control - 7/3/2006 6:40:33 PM

LadyHugs

Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Dear Caretakr, Bearlee, Ladies and Gentlemen;

Well, there are ways to deal with brats indeed. I'll agree to the diapers Caretakr if I can pre-moisten them and add itching powder or some unpleasant addition into them before the brat wears them.

Bearlee, with a accomplished lass as you, I would give you a box indeed--it would just be a little ring box. Sometimes it is fun to change the size of the box, as well as thinking outside the box as a sadist/disciplinarian/executioner.

Respectfully submitted with much teasing and humor,
Lady Hugs

(in reply to Caretakr)

Post #: 28

RE: Control - 7/3/2006 6:43:17 PM

Caretakr

Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHugs

Dear Caretakr, Bearlee, Ladies and Gentlemen;

Well, there are ways to deal with brats indeed. I'll agree to the diapers Caretakr if I can pre-moisten them and add itching powder or some unpleasant addition into them before the brat wears them.

Respectfully submitted with much teasing and humor,
Lady Hugs

Suppositories

(in reply to LadyHugs)

Post #: 29

RE: Control - 7/3/2006 6:48:34 PM

slaveaurora

Posts: 157
Joined: 6/30/2006
Status: offline

~fast reply~

I am a slave, and it is my nature and personality to please.   I do it because I want too, and because it is who I am.

However, on the flip side of that, I have been known to poke him in the ribs, or otherwise do something to get attention. It is all in fun though, and never have I had to be forced to submit.

As we all know the sheer joy I feel inside just by making him happy, and knowing that he is pleased, is the best natural high I can think of.

Sorry if  I am rambling a bit, I am utterly exhausted tonight.

~aurora~

(in reply to LadyHugs)

Post #: 30

RE: Control - 7/3/2006 7:16:00 PM

WayWardSoul

Posts: 869
Joined: 6/13/2006
Status: offline

On these profiles that state I'm a brat, force me to submit. There seems a lot throw in the I'm not a doormat. So is it there way to prove there not a doormat?

(in reply to slaveaurora)

Post #: 31

RE: Control - 7/3/2006 7:18:13 PM

Caretakr

Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WayWardSoul

On these profiles that state I'm a brat, force me to submit. There seems a lot throw in the I'm not a doormat. So is it there way to prove there not a doormat?

By proving ability.

(in reply to WayWardSoul)

Post #: 32

RE: Control - 7/3/2006 7:26:24 PM

Bearlee

Posts: 2311
Joined: 10/25/2004
From: South Central CO
Status: offline

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.... <eyes widen> wowwwwwwwwwwww!!! Who'da thunk it?!!!
...and soooo simple, too!

And no, I am NOT being facetious...

(in reply to Caretakr)

Post #: 33

RE: Control - 7/3/2006 7:33:19 PM

WayWardSoul

Posts: 869
Joined: 6/13/2006
Status: offline

Ok I'll quote from LadyHugs because she has a great way of saying things that i don't and I can see this point.

quote:

In my mind's eye, a brat really provokes response from a dominant, as to cause a response to use discipline/corporal. It really is a forced from below or 'topping from the bottom' in my mind's eye, as it really is a manipulation to which it is a 'control' a brat uses to get what they want. To stop the brat behavior, the dominant has to give in and administer the discipline. Whereas, a slave would just approach and request 'slave maintainence' such as, kneeling with their favorite flogger, cane or such; which is a silent request, plea to be fed.

What i'm asking is, If its there way to rationalize in there mind that there not a doormat for wanting it to happen, so they feel to act out or be braty is the way to do that.

(in reply to Caretakr)

Post #: 34

RE: Control - 7/3/2006 7:43:27 PM

feastie

Posts: 1793
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline

I'm not a brat, but neither am I a doormat. What that means to me is that I'm not going to submit to every Tom, Dick and Harry that comes along. If a man wants my submission, he'll take the necessary steps to get it. It's not as if he'd have to "pry it from my cold dead fingers", but he'll have to do a damn sight more than show up.

_____________________________

Snarky and loving it.

Disclaimer: Any views expressed in any post are my opinions only. They may or may not be yours.

(in reply to WayWardSoul)

Post #: 35

RE: Control - 7/3/2006 7:44:53 PM

Caretakr

Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WayWardSoul

Ok I'll quote from LadyHugs because she has a great way of saying things that i don't and I can see this point.

quote:

In my mind's eye, a brat really provokes response from a dominant, as to cause a response to use discipline/corporal. It really is a forced from below or 'topping from the bottom' in my mind's eye, as it really is a manipulation to which it is a 'control' a brat uses to get what they want. To stop the brat behavior, the dominant has to give in and administer the discipline. Whereas, a slave would just approach and request 'slave maintainence' such as, kneeling with their favorite flogger, cane or such; which is a silent request, plea to be fed.

What i'm asking is, If its there way to rationalize in there mind that there not a doormat for wanting it to happen, so they feel to act out or be braty is the way to do that.

Brats are expressing insecurity in thier need for control,so they feel compelled to try to control HOW they are controlled.

If you can manipulate the Master's response, you don't have to feel humbled as much by surrendering. I will control property-but I will do it my way. Much in the way that I will not reward a dog with attention when it bites me-it would be spending a great deal of time in the kennel-or go to the pound.

In short, I will not tolerate dishonesty in the expression of submission. Be real, or begone.

(in reply to WayWardSoul)

Post #: 36

RE: Control - 7/3/2006 7:46:41 PM

LadyHugs

Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Dear WayWardSoul, Ladies and Gentlemen;

For those 'force me to submit' statements, to my mind's eye is a trigger response for some dominants. Some will respond and some will not.

The real focus for me, is that the use force as a word. This lifestyle promotes consent, so 'choice' and 'will' is paramount. But, until anybody controls the mind and the heart/spirit/emotion of a slave you only have the physical remaining.

In my mind's eye, the most enticing slave is one who speaks with genuine passion without having to behave unkind or attacking the person but, stay with the issues of dispute and or debate and or shows different positions as to bring both Master/Mistress and slave to a better understanding. This has been demonstrated by the use by Imperial/Nobility in civilizations past, such as the wisdom and far sight contemplations made by two male slaves but, are best known as Philosophers, Socrates and Aristotle. Slaves have often held offices, had the trust, influence and really is the original 'Switch' as these Philosopher slaves had slaves of their own.

So many beautiful lads and lassies, that identify as slave and or submissive, as well as Switches have posted beautiful and passionate posts that did well to speak on their personal opinions, observations, experiences and such. Some are kind, some are tart and some peppered with wonderful humor. So, in summary--there are ways to speak up with fire and passion without being unkind.

Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs

(in reply to WayWardSoul)

Post #: 37

RE: Control - 7/3/2006 7:57:05 PM

LadyHugs

Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Dear Caretakr, Ladies and Gentlemen;

You wrote;

Brats are expressing insecurity in thier need for control,so they feel compelled to try to control HOW they are controlled.

In short, I will not tolerate dishonesty in the expression of submission. Be real, or begone.
[/quote]

I do agree that 'some' brats are insecure. Some wilfully are brats by choice and not from insecurity.

Those who mainfest the brat behavior due to insecurity, are worth the patience in giving them another way to channel insecurity. If those who don't know any other way of expression should be given options or 'remedies' to choose as to replace the behavior with a more agreeable behavior. Unfortunately, many individuals--Masters and slaves a like have history/baggage and are products of what has happened prior to our keeping. However, the slave who acts as a brat must make the choice to change. Masters, Mistresses and or Dominants can only 'inspire' them to change.

Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs

(in reply to Caretakr)

Post #: 38

RE: Control - 7/3/2006 8:19:04 PM

Vancouver_cinful

Posts: 1911
Joined: 2/3/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bearlee
Isn’t it funny…I generally just AM submissive. I’m a pleaser…I want others happy. While this sounds far more Pollyanna than I am, it really is true.

I believe we are talking about two different things here. The desire to please, and defer to loves ones, is not the same as the deep submission needed for obeying without struggle.

While one may present itself as a constant way of interacting with the world, the other in general, can not. Instance obedience without hesitation is not something that I can, or should, give to just anyone.

_____________________________

Cin

quote:

My Karma Account is huge, but I just can't seem to make a withdrawal!!

http://cinful.wordpress.com

(in reply to Bearlee)

Post #: 39

RE: Control - 7/4/2006 2:05:50 AM

RavenMuse

Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bearlee
Just to be clear…doing things to please the Dom/me does NOT (in my book) mean being a door-mat. It does include being able to hold a feisty conversation on many topics, having an opinion and being to state it."

It most certainly doesn't mean doormat and that is something I am very glad of because I find doormats terminaly boring and almost as little interest to me as brats. All you have with a doormat is the physical, a piece of meat to flog, cane, fuck.... where is the person to interact with, to have a relationship with. D/s or M/s it is still supposedly a relationship.

helen is a very fiesty girl, friendly, bubbly, loves to please (Especialy loves to please me) and yep a cheeky little minx, cute with it. Since we got together there have been exactly ZERO arguments and at no point has she crossed any boundery I have set. She has approached them once or twice and all it has taken is a word, a reminder of that boundery, a small indication that we where heading toward a situation I was not going to be pleased with. Does that mean there is no fun.... hell no, but it is done appropriatly.

she is allowed, even encouraged to disagree with me. She can express her opinion (And does so freely, good girl). That is information *I* need. I know my opinion, my wants, my needs..... I am not a mind reader, I need open and clear communication to be sure I know hers. Also she may have some info that I don't have that would change my decision, something I can't take into account unless I know. What she is NOT allowed to do is argue. Once I make the decision, that is it made unless there is new info or situation change that I need to account for. Even when it is not the decision she hoped for, she accepts it readily, she submits to MY decision.

Poking Master in the ribs till he spins her round and plants a stinging slap on her behind is part of our play too, but thats all it is, play, not discipline, not punishment, play. When something serious comes up... we talk, usualy she is asked if she knows what it was that I wasn't happy with and mostly she doesn't have to think too hard about it to give the correct answer. Where she has missed some part of it, it is explained to her, the reasons behind why it annoys/irritates/disapoints me is restated and we look at if there is anything WE can do to ensure that barrier is not crossed in future.

IMO that is all that is needed. She wants to please me, things that are doing the opposite are pointed out, they stop. Now with some girls and/or some circumstances a girl will beat herself up too much for having disapointed me.... she punishes herself and can't get closure on the incident. THAT is the only time I will use what most understand as 'punishment'. Because if she can't get closure without something then it needs to be me doing so, it isn't her responcibility, it is MINE and I will be the one deciding what is justified.... but the aim is to close the matter and let her focus possitivly on correcting the behaviour rather than negativly on feeling guilty for the error.

_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to Bearlee)

Post #: 40

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