RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it??

RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? (Full Version)

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JetOnly -> RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? (11/23/2013 9:35:12 AM)
Seeing as I cant edit my initial post I can only reiterate again here (and apologise if I wasnt clear enough) Forced to do something WITH the persons consent, sometimes people DO enjoy the responsibility for something taken away from them So please can we stop focusing on the forced bit as if it is something evil, if you dont enjoy pushing someones limits - that they want and ask for them to be pushed - then its fair enough - but dont diss others who do again please stop with the judgments of what type of person would want something like this - I can now fully understand why many men dont come to their partners telling them they would like to dress up in womans clothing sometimes, I can imagine from the anger on here where some of the shame comes in the desire - from the fear of being misunderstood for what at the end of the day is a simple and harmless thing All I was asking was why some ladies choose to do it, and thankyou to those that answered. I totally understand it as doing something for someone you love :) and Michael Bolton!! no amount of showers could wash that dirty away ;) I was interested to see if any ladies enjoyed it. I guess the answer seems to be very very few, which I suppose I can understand that to be another part of a humiliation for the man knowing that it isnt something the lady enjoys I guess as with everything I did learn something in this conversation, not what I expected, but I like to learn so no bad thing really. Thank you all for your time anyways

kalikshama -> RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? (11/23/2013 11:13:54 AM)
I don't see women looking down on men wanting to dress in women's clothes - I see women looking down on men wanting to dress in women's clothes when part of the man's kink is to be humiliated by the experience.

OsideGirl -> RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? (11/23/2013 11:24:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kalikshama I don't see women looking down on men wanting to dress in women's clothes - I see women looking down on men wanting to dress in women's clothes when part of the man's kink is to be humiliated by the experience. Well, I didn't see any anger either...... quote: ORIGINAL: JetOnly I can imagine from the anger on here where some of the shame comes in the desire

MistressDarkArt -> RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? (11/23/2013 1:00:29 PM)
For me, it's 'person related'. I'm completely straight, think women's bodies are beautiful but do no get sexually aroused by them. Therefore if a guy wants to dress as a female and I love the other 99% maleness of him, I will indulge that desire from time to time just as he does things for me that aren't necessarily his favorite. Is it a sexual turn-on for me? Nope, not in the least. But I can't imagine he gets hard while pounding nails into a broken fence in 102 degree heat, either, and knowing he's doing that for me is a great turn-on on every level. There has been exactly ONE person I was willing to do this with, and eventually he was just too obsessed with it for my taste, so I sent him on. The rest of my limited experience with cross-dressers (NOT actual trans* folks) was that right from the get-go the guys were all about his fetish, and I was just an upgrade. I, I, I, me, me, me, aren't I cute, aren't I slutty, don't I have a nice ass, oh look my legs are so long and sleek in these hose and high heels, are you going to fuck this slutty little girl, Mistress, tell me to put my little pantied ass up in the air for your strap-on. I'd say I have much better things to do and frankly so do you...go weed the cathouse. If it motivates you to do a more thorough job wearing hose , heels and my black sparkly minidress, I have no problem with that but I will not be ooohing and aaaahing at you. Get your work done. So for me...meh, no enjoyment whatsoever. It's not completely off the table, but if/when it happens, it's a concession, an indulgence...not a turn-on.

RedMagic1 -> RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? (11/23/2013 1:15:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JetOnly So please can we stop focusing on A quick note about shepherding a thread: if you ask people in an indignant tone to stop focusing on X, the next couple pages f comments are likely to be about either X or why you're copping too much of an attitude about X. Instead of waving a flag in front of a bull, it's worth remembering that if you want people to talk about their private sexual interests, they are more likely to be open if they don't think the OP will fight them about it.

JetOnly -> RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? (11/23/2013 1:17:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MistressDarkArt For me, it's 'person related'. I'm completely straight, think women's bodies are beautiful but do no get sexually aroused by them. Therefore if a guy wants to dress as a female and I love the other 99% maleness of him, I will indulge that desire from time to time just as he does things for me that aren't necessarily his favorite. Is it a sexual turn-on for me? Nope, not in the least. But I can't imagine he gets hard while pounding nails into a broken fence in 102 degree heat, either, and knowing he's doing that for me is a great turn-on on every level. There has been exactly ONE person I was willing to do this with, and eventually he was just too obsessed with it for my taste, so I sent him on. The rest of my limited experience with cross-dressers (NOT actual trans* folks) was that right from the get-go the guys were all about his fetish, and I was just an upgrade. I, I, I, me, me, me, aren't I cute, aren't I slutty, don't I have a nice ass, oh look my legs are so long and sleek in these hose and high heels, are you going to fuck this slutty little girl, Mistress, tell me to put my little pantied ass up in the air for your strap-on. I'd say I have much better things to do and frankly so do you...go weed the cathouse. If it motivates you to do a more thorough job wearing hose , heels and my black sparkly minidress, I have no problem with that but I will not be ooohing and aaaahing at you. Get your work done. So for me...meh, no enjoyment whatsoever. It's not completely off the table, but if/when it happens, it's a concession, an indulgence...not a turn-on. Thankyou, that makes a whole lot of sense :) and yes I have met a lot of cross dressers who it is all about them them them and I so cant be dealing with that :)

JetOnly -> RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? (11/23/2013 1:21:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kalikshama I don't see women looking down on men wanting to dress in women's clothes - I see women looking down on men wanting to dress in women's clothes when part of the man's kink is to be humiliated by the experience. But that is the problem - you are judging the reason why he feels humiliated without even knowing the person - you are assuming he feels humiliated because of certain feelings towards women - I can tell you that is not the case, all I asked was from people to move on from that assumption, the only reason I added the humiliation point was that I figured that some people may enjoy things that they wouldnt inherently find a turn on because it was causing the other person to feel a little humiliated

RedMagic1 -> RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? (11/23/2013 1:27:07 PM)
I decided to make a second post to talk about the content of the thread so far; here goes. I used to date a very vanilla woman, and I don't have any CD urges myself. But one day we were goofing around, and there was a miniskirt on the floor, and I modeled it for a second to make her laugh before I kissed her. Well, she got horny as hell, and after that would occasionally ask me to wear a miniskirt when we made out. So there are women who really like it, even if they "aren't" kinky. One thing to bear in mind, JetOnly, is that properties like empathy, generosity, caring, have nothing to do with sexual submission. Maybe they "should," but there are at least as many sub men who are sexually greedy and ungiving as there are sub men who put the needs of their partners as equal or first. And a lot of women have posted on this forum over the years that a higher percentage of CDs are selfish than even the "general population" of sub men. So if it's a false belief, it a widespread one. Also, I thought the post by KYSissy was beautiful -- best post I've read in at least a month. But I have to say, I wouldn't be surprised if I could stalk KYSIssy's post history and figure out the exact date he began the relationship with his dominant hapa cutie, because for a long time his posts did nothing special for me -- and then one day it was as though a switch flipped, and he started writing things that were really fucking good.

SylvereApLeanan -> RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? (11/23/2013 1:31:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MistressDarkArt The rest of my limited experience with cross-dressers (NOT actual trans* folks) was that right from the get-go the guys were all about his fetish, and I was just an upgrade. I, I, I, me, me, me, aren't I cute, aren't I slutty, don't I have a nice ass, oh look my legs are so long and sleek in these hose and high heels, are you going to fuck this slutty little girl, Mistress, tell me to put my little pantied ass up in the air for your strap-on. I'd say I have much better things to do and frankly so do you...go weed the cathouse. If it motivates you to do a more thorough job wearing hose , heels and my black sparkly minidress, I have no problem with that but I will not be ooohing and aaaahing at you. Get your work done. This x1000. Same for the ones who want to prance about in a frilly maid's outfit and ballet boots while you follow them around in a corset and thigh-high stiletto boots, riding crop in hand, so you can have the "privilege" of flogging them when they miss a spot with the feather duster (which they will make certain they do on a regular basis). I'm like, bitch please...how do you plan to accomplish anything wearing fishnets and stripper heels? Get your work done. Of course, they don't want to do any actual work, they just want to be the center of attention while they pretend to be whatever it is they think we want and really have no use for whatsoever.

AAkasha -> RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? (11/23/2013 1:39:21 PM)
I'm a femdom and I have several views on f/fem and wrote a huge article about it and will link to it at the bottom of the post, but here's the cliffnotes version. First, I don't enjoy ANY fetish if a submissive is very self indulgent about it, pushing me to follow his lead, or is 100% about THAT fetish and not at all interested in what turns me on. ** Regarding men wearing female attire or looking feminine - I was a teenager in the 80s when the "new romantic" style of music became popular. The first guys I kissed wore lipstick and eyeliner. My first teenage crushes (and bondage fantasies, naturally) were on members of Duran Duran and Adam Ant. These were NOT masculine men. Even as I got older I got into industrial music where men wore ripped stockings and still had eyeliner. Even when the fashion faded, I still LIKED how men looked in eyeliner, some lipstick, stockings. When I would "strongly encourage" my very straight boyfriends into adopting this look to please me they would balk. Even get insecure. That nervousness and vulnerability pushed my femdom buttons. I found a lot of "closet" sissies for lack of a better word. Dressed them appropriately for the clubs I liked and they hated it at first but did it for me, and looked quite hot. I stumbled accidentally on the realization when messing around that if you make a guy wear panties (mine at the time, as I used to only date men who were skinny as hell- huge hipbone fetish) they would be totally embarrassed but instantly aroused. It was as harmless as "Well if you are going to the club wearing a dog collar and eyeliner you should wear my panties too!" Light bulb moment. The idea of feminizing men for my pleasure came because I liked men who looked pretty - for me. It came from objectification. If they didn't want it, it was even hotter, because I would be like, "Such a pretty bitch, look at you!" and the feminine clothes turned them on despite making them UNEASY. That conflict is HOT. They get aroused despite themselves. I understand how this works because I did this to vanilla guys. I'd pick them out and think, "mmmm...he'd going to look HOT in thigh highs and eyeliner with the right shade of gloss on his lips." Now, in college, this was acceptable dating behavior. It's playful. As an adult, not so much. If I want to engage in this kind of playful f/fem games it has to be with men who are already "in the know" about how the dynamic works. Unfortunately, MOST men into f/fem are EXTREMELY self indulgent. I tend to enjoy men who are really self aware and comfortable in their role, or the other end of the spectrum - total novices or have never done it. And in the scheme of things, bondage is my main fetish, with f/fem not as much. It was a huge fetish of my youth however. Here's a much larger article: http://akashaweb.com/updates/FFemwhyfree.html Akasha

SylvereApLeanan -> RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? (11/23/2013 1:41:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JetOnly quote: ORIGINAL: kalikshama I don't see women looking down on men wanting to dress in women's clothes - I see women looking down on men wanting to dress in women's clothes when part of the man's kink is to be humiliated by the experience. But that is the problem - you are judging the reason why he feels humiliated without even knowing the person - you are assuming he feels humiliated because of certain feelings towards women - I can tell you that is not the case, all I asked was from people to move on from that assumption, the only reason I added the humiliation point was that I figured that some people may enjoy things that they wouldnt inherently find a turn on because it was causing the other person to feel a little humiliated I call bullshit. Earlier in the thread you said: quote: In my mind it is totally understandable that someone could feel humiliation at the idea without any negative thoughts about women, from an early age boys are told to wear x type of clothes but they are not permitted to wear y type, that is nothing against women The only reason wearing women's clothes is humiliating is because of the misogyny inherent in gender stereotypes. "Don't wear pink, that's a girly color," "Quit crying like a little girl," "Man up, you don't want people to think you're a pussy," are all comments people toss around like confetti and these are the things we teach little boys. All of these things are derogatory toward women. The simple fact that a man can be humiliated by wearing women's clothes has a direct correlation with his level of internalized misogyny.

kalikshama -> RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? (11/23/2013 1:46:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JetOnly quote: ORIGINAL: kalikshama I don't see women looking down on men wanting to dress in women's clothes - I see women looking down on men wanting to dress in women's clothes when part of the man's kink is to be humiliated by the experience. But that is the problem - you are judging the reason why he feels humiliated without even knowing the person - you are assuming he feels humiliated because of certain feelings towards women - I can tell you that is not the case, all I asked was from people to move on from that assumption, the only reason I added the humiliation point was that I figured that some people may enjoy things that they wouldnt inherently find a turn on because it was causing the other person to feel a little humiliated Actually, you asked us to stop focusing on the "forced" aspect, despite it being the first word in the subject line and in your OP. So I graciously moved on to the humiliation aspect. I'm not judging the reasons he feels humiliated at all - I have no idea what causes the humiliation and would welcome a discussion on the reasons for this. The point I was trying to make is I have often seen Dommes say they are not interested in participating in feminization that leads to humiliation because of sentiments such as: quote: ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan ... if there's humiliation involved, it insults women, it belittles the struggles of trans* people, it borders on and may even cross over into appropriation of trans* experiences...the list could go on all day. Please note SylvereApLeanan went on to say: quote: As far as helping someone who identifies as trans*, gender queer, or gender fluid to do things like select flattering clothing and apply makeup goes, I'm all for it. I love to go shopping, do makeovers, and have home spa days and I have a Thing for feminine-leaning androgyny. But force? Nope, no way.

JetOnly -> RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? (11/23/2013 3:50:36 PM)
AAkasha thankyou, that makes a load of sense - Im also from the Goth/industrial scene and so used to guys dressed in allsorts that it has been a mental shift for me to figure out that people can feel that humiliated/turned on way that you describe just by clothes - and very much like the whole androgynous david bowie type thing - although I always seen the men in that scene as still looking very manly Interesting things to think about :) thankyou I simply refuse to converse with people who lower themselves to rude words, I have tried to stay polite and just try and clarify my questions but of course its possible to read any type of inflection into a black and white post so I wont get into a flame war Thankyou to everyone here and in messages who are kind enough to share their experiences and thoughts

AAkasha -> RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? (11/23/2013 4:41:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kalikshama Please note SylvereApLeanan went on to say: quote: As far as helping someone who identifies as trans*, gender queer, or gender fluid to do things like select flattering clothing and apply makeup goes, I'm all for it. I love to go shopping, do makeovers, and have home spa days and I have a Thing for feminine-leaning androgyny. But force? Nope, no way. Without drowning ourselves in the semantics, isn't some segment of bondage play, for example, "forced bondage"? I know a great deal of time when I do BDSM with someone, you could just as easily label it as, "I am into forced bondage (play.)". Of course, I am not into FORCED bondage because I am not going to grab a hot guy off the street against his will and tie him up just because I get off on the thrashing about when the handcuffs are clicked on, or the muffled protests when the gag is applied. Or the look of desperation and pleading for release when the bonds actually do start to get uncomfortable. But I am, indeed, into "forced bondage." I do not get off on a partner that goes, "Oh GOODY AKASHA! It's BONDAGE TIME! Here are my wrists, let me hold ever so still. Is that a gag I see? Well, let me open wide and hold quite still." And then as I apply and tighten ever shackles, moans in appreciation and tells me, "Oh god, my Mistress, you are making me so hot, please strap me down tighter." I enjoy bondage that instills fear, vulnerability, and leads to some suffering. What I do know is my partner surrenders to me willingly and YES he is TURNED ON by this, but as a masochist or a submissive, he is enduring parallel feelings - he is feeling arousal, and at the same time, some element of discomfort. Or not in his comfort zone. Not being able to move is not natural. Being gagged is uncomfortable and dehumanizing. I often have to encourage new play partners of mine to show THESE emotions rather than the glee of finally being immobilized and objectified - because, after all, I am a sadist. I want to see him suffering for me. I know, deep down, he loves this. I want him to love it. I know he is not "forced" but I have a need to see him resist on a human level. THAT is the 'forced' part. The natural part of the human animal that does not want to be victimized. And, fine, if he has to ham it up a little for my benefit - hell, if he has to 100% act it out to get me off, I don't care as long as I get my needs met. But I like to be cruel, and applying bondage to make my partner immobile is not something I do to someone who sits there like a lump. That doesn't mean he's thrashing about and being a pain in the ass, but some natural discomfort, hesitation exist. It's forced bondage, coerced bondage, whatever you want to call it. Before I know S&M existed, it was seduction. "Here, try this for me, I think you might enjoy it. Plus it makes me really hot!" Akasha

JetOnly -> RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? (11/23/2013 4:59:49 PM)
^^ this :) I love a bit of surprise 'forced' bondage in the morning, yes its consensual but I love the conflict, the little bit of fear mixed with the excitement

SeekingTrinity -> RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? (11/23/2013 6:12:48 PM)
~FRing it~ You should probably get used to the idea that all people are not going to think like you and will have their own thoughts/opinions/ideas on things. It's a public site and you posed a question publicly. Expecting people to answer the way you want and then getting twisted out of shape when they don't respond in a manner that suits you is not likely to foster open communication. No one said you were guaranteed to always like what you hear.

MAINEiacMISTRESS -> RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? (11/23/2013 6:37:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MistressDarkArt For me, it's 'person related'. I'm completely straight, think women's bodies are beautiful but do no get sexually aroused by them. Therefore if a guy wants to dress as a female and I love the other 99% maleness of him, I will indulge that desire from time to time just as he does things for me that aren't necessarily his favorite. Is it a sexual turn-on for me? Nope, not in the least. But I can't imagine he gets hard while pounding nails into a broken fence in 102 degree heat, either, and knowing he's doing that for me is a great turn-on on every level. There has been exactly ONE person I was willing to do this with, and eventually he was just too obsessed with it for my taste, so I sent him on. The rest of my limited experience with cross-dressers (NOT actual trans* folks) was that right from the get-go the guys were all about his fetish, and I was just an upgrade. I, I, I, me, me, me, aren't I cute, aren't I slutty, don't I have a nice ass, oh look my legs are so long and sleek in these hose and high heels, are you going to fuck this slutty little girl, Mistress, tell me to put my little pantied ass up in the air for your strap-on. I'd say I have much better things to do and frankly so do you...go weed the cathouse. If it motivates you to do a more thorough job wearing hose , heels and my black sparkly minidress, I have no problem with that but I will not be ooohing and aaaahing at you. Get your work done. So for me...meh, no enjoyment whatsoever. It's not completely off the table, but if/when it happens, it's a concession, an indulgence...not a turn-on. Exactly. They forget to include some form of a benefit for Us. At least clean My house while cross-dressing!

JetOnly -> RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? (11/24/2013 2:55:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SeekingTrinity ~FRing it~ You should probably get used to the idea that all people are not going to think like you and will have their own thoughts/opinions/ideas on things. It's a public site and you posed a question publicly. Expecting people to answer the way you want and then getting twisted out of shape when they don't respond in a manner that suits you is not likely to foster open communication. No one said you were guaranteed to always like what you hear. Yes Im totaly aware that not everyone will share my ideas - however the reason I brought my questions to a kink related forum was I always believed in the your kink is not my kink non judgemental stance of the community. Plenty things I dont agree with for myself - so I dont go onto threads talking about things I am not into. The only expectations I had in posting were to perhaps be speaking to open minded people, rather than being judged and lambasted for asking about a kink they dont agree with I think it is very sad in this community that there are a significant enough amount of people to fear posting openly about their kink and are contacting me quietly for fear of being judged on here I dont see how this kink is causing anyone any harm, it is between two consenting adults (note HE said HIS kink was to be forced - asking to be forced is hardly non consensual)

AAkasha -> RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? (11/24/2013 5:04:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JetOnly quote: ORIGINAL: SeekingTrinity ~FRing it~ You should probably get used to the idea that all people are not going to think like you and will have their own thoughts/opinions/ideas on things. It's a public site and you posed a question publicly. Expecting people to answer the way you want and then getting twisted out of shape when they don't respond in a manner that suits you is not likely to foster open communication. No one said you were guaranteed to always like what you hear. Yes Im totaly aware that not everyone will share my ideas - however the reason I brought my questions to a kink related forum was I always believed in the your kink is not my kink non judgemental stance of the community. Plenty things I dont agree with for myself - so I dont go onto threads talking about things I am not into. The only expectations I had in posting were to perhaps be speaking to open minded people, rather than being judged and lambasted for asking about a kink they dont agree with I think it is very sad in this community that there are a significant enough amount of people to fear posting openly about their kink and are contacting me quietly for fear of being judged on here I dont see how this kink is causing anyone any harm, it is between two consenting adults (note HE said HIS kink was to be forced - asking to be forced is hardly non consensual) [/quote I highly doubt there is little difference between when a feminizaton slave says "I enjoy f/fem" and when a bondage bottom says "I enjoy bottoming with light resistance play." What irritates me is that ever educated person in this so-called "bdsm community" knows clearly what "forced feminiazation" really means. It means seduced coercion. It does not mean a blatant, unwilling partner. Just as when you tie up a frisky bottom. he doesn't remain there like a limp noodle - there are some verbal, non-emotional cues that signal resistance. No blatant, "Let me go NOW!" resistance, but some natural human struggle. So there are a lot of men that enjoy feminization. And just like men who enjoy bondage, they prefer to be coerced into it. It's as simple as that. It is not rocket science. They want the woman in charge to make the decisions so he has no choice. He wants to be stripped of control. He wants to allow his primal side to instincitly resist so he can struggle against that and lose to the feminine allure of the moment. In the a way, indeed, it is "forced." It does NOT mean he does not want to be there. It is the same willing bondage participant arrives at my door and allows me to restraint him tightly. I often have to remind him to struggle naturally, because I know of course he wants it -- but on a human level, his body does resist. When I got to gag him, he is eager to accept it (after all, bondage = "whee!") - I have to take him firmly by the chin with a knee planted squarely and painfully into his crotch and say, "Listen BITCH. I know you love to be gagged. But I am a ruthless sadist that is ACHING to see you suffer right now. I know this gag is going to hurt. You are going to hate it. I will make it too tight. You are going to drool. You will look PATHETIC. When you are wearing it, stop thinking about how turned on you are, and start thinking how helpless, desperate, pathetic you feel. Because only after I believe you am I going to let you go. After I cum." Akaska

AliceInUndieLand -> RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? (11/24/2013 5:15:58 AM)
For what it's worth... Speaking personally.. Forced feminisation for me...( in the context of a BDSM scenario ) is about being transformed into a feminised emasculated man - rather than trying to create a convincing tranvestite alter-ego as such... ( there is a very subtle difference ) - So the "humiliation" comes from being reduced to something "less than male" - rather than being "turned into a woman" - which, - I agree with other comments, isn't necessarily humiliating at all...

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