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RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? - 11/25/2013 8:21:12 AM   
BecomingV


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JetOnly

A little thought I had that I thought would amuse some, make some think and of course many will just ignore
Dom, Domme and sub
Somehow we have to feminise the contraction of dominant yet dont have to feminise submit


This brought to mind the submissive male (but the feminized version) - boi.

(in reply to JetOnly)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? - 11/25/2013 8:31:38 AM   
RedMagic1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MAINEiacMISTRESS
"Real men wear pink". Well, it's a start...but I see no reason why a man cannot wear taffeta and lace if he so chooses. Prior to the 1800's men wore very frilly clothing and high heels. Just look at some of the period paintings.

Yes, and, as you may know, there's a lot more. It's only been about 100 years that pink was considered a female color, and blue a male color. In 1900, pink was masculine and blue was feminine.

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/When-Did-Girls-Start-Wearing-Pink.html

Beyond that, the word "girl" (gyrle) meant "child of either sex" for centuries, and both boys and girls wore dresses. Makes a lot of sense in a world before diapers or public toilets.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=girl

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to MAINEiacMISTRESS)
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RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? - 11/25/2013 8:37:06 AM   
Mxybunny


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MAINEiacMISTRESS

However, as a female who from a very young age has always worn and been more comfortable in traditional "male" clothing (when most of My female friends growing up were wearing dresses and pink clothing, styling their hair and wearing makeup, I wore boy's sneakers, jeans, baseball shirts, denim jackets, carhartt's, etc), I fail to see how it is "BDSM" to wear clothing of the opposite gender. If you want to wear women's clothing, JUST DO IT and stop being so damn chicken about it.


Here's the problem, though. When we do it, and enjoy it on our own terms, we get judged and accused for it. Look at this thread. It's stunning how many women look down on men just because they are aroused by the genderfuck. I get that you were talking about forced feminization specifically, but really that's just putting crossdressing into a sub context. What's really on the table here is crossdressing. People can dress the issue up any way they like, at the end of the day they're getting their panties in a bunch over the fact that I have a bunch of panties, and I DARE do so in the context of a sub.

As you said, you can wear boy clothes all you want.

Girls can wear boy clothes. Boys can wear boy clothes.
Girls can wear strong confident women clothes. Boys can wear strong confident women clothes.
Girls can wear sweet girly subby clothes. Boys-OMGHOWFUCKINGDAREYOUMISOGYNISTSCUM.

Welcome to the age of enlightenment, everybody.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MAINEiacMISTRESS

I suppose, if a man's head is so rigidly boxed in by his upbringing and society's expectations of what a man "should" act like, then yes it could be a Mindwarp to dress him in heels and dresses to create a different "headspace" for him....but to do it because "feminization means becoming inferior" rather defeats the purpose if he believes in female Dominance.


EXACTLY. You hit the nail on the head, MAINEiacMISTRESS. It's all about that different "headspace" (although it doesn't require any special mental rigidity on part of the man), and it doesn't make any sense at all to call someone who submits to female dominance a misogynist just because he resigns himself to a NON-dominant female role.

This whole thread is fucking absurd.


quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt
It's the humiliation itself that is at issue This is not brain surgery to unravel. Here's a common definition of humiliation:

1. The act of humiliating; degradation.
2. The state of being humiliated or disgraced; shame.
3. A humiliating condition or circumstance.


If being feminized is so uplifting, why would you feel shame?

You can talk around it all you wish. And no, I don't know what's in your brain. But that you need to use the sort of hyperbole you did with me would indicate you're backed into a corner and lashing out.


I don't know what's in your brain but this is what's in your brain. Great...

Since I've pretty much given up trying to expect anything sensible out of your camp I'll just let it go and answer your question.

Why would I feel shame? I don't I feel embarrassment. I find the sensation of embarrassment arousing. Why embarrassment? Because it is male stereotype to not be feminine. The fetish is not a condemnation of feminine roles but rather, and I say this for the millionth time, the abandonment of the masculine role. That's what makes it *liberating*.

What about exhibitionists? (Specifically of the humiliation variety). Are they wrong or prejudice somehow by being "embarrassed" to be naked and paraded around in front of others? Is this shame of their own body? What about those human furniture people? Or the ones who crawl around like dogs on collars?

How many fetishes shall we apply your harsh judgement to, before you'll stop judging?


< Message edited by Mxybunny -- 11/25/2013 8:52:28 AM >

(in reply to ChatteParfaitt)
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RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? - 11/25/2013 8:49:17 AM   
RedMagic1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mxybunny
I even took the time, in my last post to spell out for you in simple terms WHAT the burdens of manhood are, to me, and WHY I find release in feminization.

If you want real content, start there, and then go deeper. Instead, you're staying in an airy, intellectual realm, when almost everyone else is talking about things they've done and what they've learned from that. It seems strange to me that you haven't talked about a single personal experience, despite the length of your posts. That's why I'm saying there is less there than meets the eye.

Also, when someone doesn't understand something I say, my first instinct is that I must not have expressed myself correctly. Your first instinct appears to be to decide that the other person must be less intelligent than you are.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to Mxybunny)
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RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? - 11/25/2013 8:56:56 AM   
Mxybunny


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mxybunny
I even took the time, in my last post to spell out for you in simple terms WHAT the burdens of manhood are, to me, and WHY I find release in feminization.

If you want real content, start there, and then go deeper. Instead, you're staying in an airy, intellectual realm, when almost everyone else is talking about things they've done and what they've learned from that. It seems strange to me that you haven't talked about a single personal experience, despite the length of your posts. That's why I'm saying there is less there than meets the eye.

Also, when someone doesn't understand something I say, my first instinct is that I must not have expressed myself correctly. Your first instinct appears to be to decide that the other person must be less intelligent than you are.



No, that's my instinct when I've explained the same thing at least five times and am still met by accusations of not having explained myself. Accusations, by the way, that are far more vague than I am accused of being.

What the hell do you want, exactly? I've spelled out for you EXACTLY how it effects me and why. Examples? What, you want me to walk you through my process of getting dressed up? What we're talking about IS a mental change and you're telling me nothing cerebral can count.

GTFOutahere I'm not playing these stupid games. Can't believe I wasted several paragraphs spilling my soul to you just for this crap.

(in reply to RedMagic1)
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RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? - 11/25/2013 9:01:11 AM   
RedMagic1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mxybunny
What, you want me to walk you through my process of getting dressed up?

Sure. I'd find that very interesting. Why you created a particular ritual for yourself, what the order you do things in means to you, anything like that. If you only do things in private, if you have a partner (pro or otherwise). Anything along those lines.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to Mxybunny)
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RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? - 11/25/2013 9:07:00 AM   
Mxybunny


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mxybunny
What, you want me to walk you through my process of getting dressed up?

Sure. I'd find that very interesting. Why you created a particular ritual for yourself, what the order you do things in means to you, anything like that. If you only do things in private, if you have a partner (pro or otherwise). Anything along those lines.


If you had regarded anything I already took the trouble to communicate to you with the slightest respect I'd be inclined to. You've made it clear that there's nothing but dismissive ignorance to expect in going further. So thank you, but no thank you. I'm like a bank, you get out only what you put in.

(in reply to RedMagic1)
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RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? - 11/25/2013 9:16:55 AM   
RedMagic1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mxybunny
You've made it clear that there's nothing but dismissive ignorance to expect in going further.

That seems really unlikely to me. People tend to respect posts that are deeply personal, and were clearly hard to write.

I also think there's a 99.999% certainty that if your first post had talked about such things, your reception on this thread would have been very different.

You may find, at some point in your life, that it isn't that women were rejecting and judging your fetish. Rather, they were rejecting and judging your relation to your fetish. You don't sound very comfortable with yourself yet, to me. Please take that for whatever you think it's worth. I certainly wish you the best.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to Mxybunny)
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RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? - 11/25/2013 9:19:57 AM   
OttersSwim


Posts: 2860
Joined: 9/1/2008
Status: offline 		The Facts of Forced Feminization:

1. The vast majority of the women you would like to participate with you in this fantasy find it offensive.

2. The vast majority of the women you would like to participate with you in this fantasy simply don't share that kink.

3. It tends to take the focus away from the Female Dominant and put it squarely on the submissive and a single kink.

4. It is a male-driven fantasy (see #2 above) created largely out of BDSM porn

5. It tries to shunt ownership of deep, substantive, and personal choices onto another in an effort to make them -acceptable-.

Go over to Fetlife and take a look at the hundreds of groups oriented to this fetish and the thousands of males looking and posting page after page of desire - and the almost total lack of any females participating.

It requires a "rethink" and a fairly deep examination of what you really -want-.

The Forced Feminization fantasy doesn't work.

So how will you go about getting what you need out of kink and out of life?

_____________________________

I am on a journey of authenticity and self.

(in reply to Mxybunny)
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RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? - 11/25/2013 9:21:52 AM   
Mxybunny


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1 Please take that for whatever you think it's worth. I certainly wish you the best.


I did. It wasn't worth much. Thank you for the pop psychology, though.

By the way, if the people I came here to respond to had regarded MY sexuality with anything but blind ignorance and contempt, MY reception of THEM would have been very different.

You forget which of us is actually on the defensive, here.

(in reply to RedMagic1)
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RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? - 11/25/2013 9:26:05 AM   
BecomingV


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mxybunny
Becomingv, "why not dress up as a weak male".

Well how does a weak male dress?

The question was meant to inspire some introspection on your part. How does a weak woman dress? Answers will vary with individuals. Some bois perceive the ultra high heels of one version of a femdom as a power item. As a feminist who's been educated in musculature, I see a woman who has been so inundated with marketing messages, that she is willing to trade in her skeletal well-being for an image. Furthermore, it's harder to run away from an attack in heels and it's harder to respond to an emergency to protect others in heels. Women have strong skeletons, muscles and ligaments... the heels change that, whether worn by men or women.


For that matter, have you never seen male subs before?

Really? Do you think that male subs are weak and/or feminine? They are overwhelmingly, neither. It is a tiny sub-section of sub males who are bois. And, yes, I've seen plenty of both, and respected both. Within the bois community, I've found men who love wearing women's clothes, many of them, in public. Again... this does not make them weaker. This is about the feeling of the materials, the variety of fashions... it's been playful and erotic for them. It's all good.

^^^That is different from humiliation through forced feminization - which is what so many here have found a problem with.

There is no lack of them, believe me. The crossdressing fetish contains elements of trans-fluidity. I am combining a humiliation fetish with a mild transsexual inkling. In that respect, it's absolutely no different from non-fetishistic crossdressers who also don't completely identify as female. It's the exact same thing, I just happen to also have a humiliation fetish. You say it's fine to dress up a woman as a "slut", what if I WANT to be that WOMAN? Suddenly it's sexist because I was born a male? Now who's being prejudice?


There's a woman named, Susan Faludi. She wrote 2 books which may be of interest to you. The first is called, Backlash, which is a historical and statistical analysis of women's experience. In short, after each political gain, a backlash into former patriarchal ways immediately appears in every walk of life, and there is a specific trend in fashions. (corsets, higher heels, etc...) It's not a philosophy - it's historical fact.

The other book she wrote was focused on men. It's called, "Stiffed: The Betrayal of the American Man." Here, she addresses men sacrificed in large numbers in the military, the fact that men die on average, 7 years younger than women... to name a few.

I mention both books to you because in reading your posts, you are obviously in a LOT of pain and I think these books may alleviate some of your suffering.

http://susanfaludi.com/stiffed.html

About masculine versus feminine characteristics, here's a link to a TED talk on the subject:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVI1Xutc_Ws

If you watch that short video, and then re-read what you have characterized as "feminazi" perspectives, then you may understand more. Those who disagree with you are not uninformed. They disagree. Intelligent people can do that.

As for kinks themselves... here's a story from NLP (neuro-linguistic programming) that explains why we can have deep, powerful feelings/reactions, and never know why.

A baby is being diapered on a sofa. The adult turns to grab a wipe and in that instant, the baby rolls off of sofa, bangs its head on the coffee table, sees the red carpet and the pain washes over the baby. Twenty years later, the baby is a an adult, decorating their first apartment. They absolutely refuse to negotiate using red in any part of the decor. They don't remember connecting the color red with pain, they just do.

Looking at a kink in that way makes it easy to accept that others feel pleasure from things that may cause me, personally, pain, or disinterest. I read your posts from that point of view.

However, your posts are full of victimized perspective. The need for approval from others is painfully clear. The refusal to look at why this has to be forced and why this causes humiliation is limiting you.

RedMagic likened it to rape re-enactment, but that doesn't exactly fit because you aren't seeking to right the harm done to you. There has clearly been harm done to you.

Just because you have a sexual feeling does not mean it is a kink nor that it is healthy. Your posts are permeated with hate, anger and a kind of whine-y tone. Other people owe you neither support nor acceptance. And yes, this is a forum full of people who offer both regularly. The fact so many are saying, "Something is wrong here," is worthy of attention. If not yours, then of other readers who are ready to let in the possibility that there is more going on than is currently understood by you.

I wish you all the best.

ETA - grammar


< Message edited by BecomingV -- 11/25/2013 10:25:14 AM >

(in reply to Mxybunny)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? - 11/25/2013 9:30:16 AM   
Mxybunny


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim

The Facts of Forced Feminization:

1. The vast majority of the women you would like to participate with you in this fantasy find it offensive.

2. The vast majority of the women you would like to participate with you in this fantasy simply don't share that kink.

3. It tends to take the focus away from the Female Dominant and put it squarely on the submissive and a single kink.

4. It is a male-driven fantasy (see #2 above) created largely out of BDSM porn

5. It tries to shunt ownership of deep, substantive, and personal choices onto another in an effort to make them -acceptable-.

Go over to Fetlife and take a look at the hundreds of groups oriented to this fetish and the thousands of males looking and posting page after page of desire - and the almost total lack of any females participating.

It requires a "rethink" and a fairly deep examination of what you really -want-.

The Forced Feminization fantasy doesn't work.

So how will you go about getting what you need out of kink and out of life?


I'll assume you were posing this to me as I haven't seen any others of my persuasion posting yet.

You're quite correct on most of those points. There is a great deal more webspace dedicated to being a sissy than there is from those who want the sissies (not counting men, who seem to be positively ravenous for us.) Most women in my experience do *not* find it offensive, merely repelling. I've never met such a large group of uptight, judgmental [sexist slur removed by Moderator] all in one place before coming here. And really, it's only repelling on a relationship level. Devoid of sexual context, most women enjoy or are fascinated by the idea of the blurring of gender lines, in my experience.

How will I get what I need out of my kink? The way I *did*. Enter into a relationship with someone who is good, decent, loving and not an uptight feminazi, and share that deeply personal part of yourself with them. They may not necessarily find it arousing, but if they love you, they will share that part of you and be at least turned on by your openness and trust in them.

At the end of the day I don't dress up for anyone's benefit but myself. Why SHOULD it pose a problem? If I enjoy doing something, I'm going to do it. I don't see the issue.

It has nothing to do with BDSM porn. That is an ignorant statement. Art imitates life - the only reason this fetish is popular in porn is BECAUSE it's a popular fetish. You are correct, however, in stating that the fetish does tend to draw attention away from the dominant and towards the submissive. Sissy fetish is the very definition of "topping from the bottom". That's a tough issue to deal with, but complaining about it or, like you, trying to somehow define it out of existence does nothing.

It is what it is.

< Message edited by VideoAdminRho -- 11/25/2013 10:56:06 AM >

(in reply to OttersSwim)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? - 11/25/2013 9:31:26 AM   
RedMagic1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mxybunny
You forget which of us is actually on the defensive, here.

I'm very much aware you feel attacked. But you haven't closed the window, so, like all the rest of us posting, you're interested in being heard and understood.

Concrete personal experiences really can't be argued with. Interpretations can. If you want a post that people can't attack, emphasize concrete experience and de-emphasize interpretation. I don't mean right now, today. If you're tired of this thread, you're tired of this thread. But what I'm describing is a very useful communication tool, and not just on the internet. Lead with facts, let conclusions follow later.

EDIT: PS: Agree with BecomingV. Backlash is a great book.

< Message edited by RedMagic1 -- 11/25/2013 9:32:07 AM >

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to Mxybunny)
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RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? - 11/25/2013 9:44:21 AM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
To be fair, few people seem to know precisely why they've got this or that kink or fetish. I don't, about my own kinks. I don't know why I'm a submale, for instance. Into the void goes an awful lot of speculation. And of course, if a lot of people speculate their way towards the same conclusion . . . that speculation gets treated as something more akin to 'knowledge'. It really isn't, though, no matter how many people agree on it.

Sure, but I've never seen you make a dramatic claim that you understood something, when, in fact, you were only speculating. And I've never seen you say that everyone who disagrees with you is an idiot.

If he's going to make unsupported strong statements, I'm either going to ask him to justify them, or stop reading what he writes.



Thank you. But I have to say: it's seemed that a large wedge of what's been happening in this thread has been to do with telling Mxybunny what he feels and this depends on what appears to me still to be quite heavily dependent on speculation.

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(in reply to RedMagic1)
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RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? - 11/25/2013 9:50:31 AM   
RedMagic1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
Thank you. But I have to say: it's seemed that a large wedge of what's been happening in this thread has been to do with telling Mxybunny what he feels and this depends on what appears to me still to be quite heavily dependent on speculation.

Agreed.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? - 11/25/2013 9:52:29 AM   
AAkasha


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
To be fair, few people seem to know precisely why they've got this or that kink or fetish. I don't, about my own kinks. I don't know why I'm a submale, for instance. Into the void goes an awful lot of speculation. And of course, if a lot of people speculate their way towards the same conclusion . . . that speculation gets treated as something more akin to 'knowledge'. It really isn't, though, no matter how many people agree on it.

Sure, but I've never seen you make a dramatic claim that you understood something, when, in fact, you were only speculating. And I've never seen you say that everyone who disagrees with you is an idiot.

If he's going to make unsupported strong statements, I'm either going to ask him to justify them, or stop reading what he writes.



Thank you. But I have to say: it's seemed that a large wedge of what's been happening in this thread has been to do with telling Mxybunny what he feels and this depends on what appears to me still to be quite heavily dependent on speculation.



What is more incredulous to me is the fact that I think many of us would be hard pressed to define, clearly, the way some of our more complex fetishes work in our brains. At least, that's how it is for me. For those that just say, "Oh yah I swing a whip around and it feels gooooooooooooooooooood, yay, wheee" -- well, good for you. When I am making a man suffer, and I see tears in his eyes, and I feel myself getting aroused, those are complicated and complex feelings that have taken years to unravel and analyze. Some people who post here are at the tip of sorting them out.

I have some fetishes over items and scenarios I still don't quite "get."

When it comes to "feminization," some guys tried on some panties of a babysitter when they were 9 and got aroused, got embarrassed about it (because they knew what they were doing was wrong) and still finished off their orgasm. The memory of that act may have created a fetish. It has NOTHING to do with the shame of the weakness of being associated with women. It has to do with the shame of doing something they were not supposed to do, and getting turned on by it and how good it felt, and how pretty they looked.

And what is embarrassing here is that most sophisticated kinksters who have read at least one scientific journal or case study know that this is one of many ways this kind of fetish can take hold, and that "shame" combined with arousal is where this "embarrassment" manifests and it has absolutely NOTHING to do with misogyny. Yet, you use it as a way to slam this fetish. You do it against men who cannot yet articulate their feelings, just as I sure as hell could not articulate why I got off putting my hand over a man's nose and mouth until he struggled to breath when I was 16.

It would be like a bunch of kinksters ganging up on me saying, "You have a fetish for killing people. Admit it. You are one step away from murdering people. You obviously hate men."

Akasha

< Message edited by AAkasha -- 11/25/2013 9:53:45 AM >

_____________________________

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Don't email me here, email me at [email protected]

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? - 11/25/2013 9:52:46 AM   
OttersSwim


Posts: 2860
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mxybunny

It has nothing to do with BDSM porn. That is an ignorant statement. Art imitates life - the only reason this fetish is popular in porn is BECAUSE it's a popular fetish. You are correct, however, in stating that the fetish does tend to draw attention away from the dominant and towards the submissive. Sissy fetish is the very definition of "topping from the bottom". That's a tough issue to deal with, but complaining about it or, like you, trying to somehow define it out of existence does nothing.

It is what it is.


I really want some of those guys to have a chance at a relationship, and thereby, I am advocating a rethink of the whole concept of how they relate to their gender expression and kink. It is inevitable that people looking for gender expression run across loads of Forced Fem media. It is an engaging fantasy and one that is easy to slip in to. But when you compare the fantasy to the reality of actually having a relationship with a Dominant Female, it really doesn't work.

So I advocate for people to get away from the Forced Fem concepts and into an adaptation of gender expression that -fits- a D/s relationship. This requires concepts of ownership of the expression of our kinks AND gender and not looking for anyone else to take them, or us, over. It means looking at a D/s relationship and making gender expression simply a part of an overall well-rounded person ready to engage with a Dominant Lady on Her terms.

Your statement that someone who loves you is willing to engage with you in your kinks is very true - but you have to get there first and so many folks lead with that single self-focused, single threaded kink. Total turn off to most D-types...doomed to failure.

It is what it is, yes. But what it is is not working well for...well for about 99.9% of all who are pursuing it.

I would like to change that. I want to see more gender expression in relationships, take away the negative associations, and make it something that is celebrated as -part- of an overall D/s relationship.

_____________________________

I am on a journey of authenticity and self.

(in reply to Mxybunny)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? - 11/25/2013 9:56:04 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BecomingV
There's a woman named, Susan Faludi. She wrote 2 books which may be of interest to you. The first is called, Backlash, which is a historical and statistical analysis of women's experience.


Susan Faludi is very, very good when it comes to appraising the experience of women. However she'd be one of the first to say that it requires someone going through the experience to explain the experience. However she's not male and not transgender or CD. Mxybunny is one of those people. If we want men to change in the way that feminists and many others have said they've wanted men to change - then this is one of the requirements.

quote:

Your posts are permeated with hate, anger and a kind of whine-y tone. Other people owe you neither support or acceptance. And yes, this is a forum full of people who offer both regularly. The fact so many are saying, "Something is wrong here," is worthy of attention. If not yours, then of other readers who are ready to let in the possibility that there is more going on than is currently understood by you.


I haven't seen this. I've seen mainly frustration.


_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com


(in reply to BecomingV)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? - 11/25/2013 9:59:00 AM   
Mxybunny


Posts: 17
Joined: 3/30/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BecomingV

The question was meant to inspire some introspection on your part. How does a weak woman dress? Answers will vary with individuals. Some bois perceive the ultra high heels of one version of a femdom as a power item. As a feminist who's been educated in musculature, I see a woman who has been so inundated with marketing messages, that she is willing to trade in an image for her skeletal well-being. Furthermore, it's harder to run away from an attack in heels and it's harder to respond to an emergency to protect others in heels. Women have strong skeletons, muscles and ligaments... the heels change that, whether worn by men or women.


I think it doesn't really need clarifying that we're using vague language here. I said "weak" because that was the kind of language being used at the time and I wasn't interested in getting into a dictionary battle. Call it submissive, slutty, whatever you want. It doesn't matter.

As for heels, I actually love them. The taller the better! I consider it a domination tool to be made to wear them, rather than viewing them as symbolic of female dominance. Everyone has their own perspective.


quote:


For that matter, have you never seen male subs before?

Really? Do you think that male subs are weak and/or feminine?


...no? You brought it up, not me. Again, "weak" was just the phrasing I was working with. Find a synonym for submissive that you like, and there it is. I never mentioned anything about them being feminine. YOU mentioned "weak males" in juxtaposition to my description of the sissy fantasy, so femininity had nothing to do with it. The correct juxtaposition would be to focus on their masculinity, verses the femininity of females that I was referring to. Which is exactly how I responded to it.


quote:


^^^That is different from humiliation through forced feminization - which is what so many here have found a problem with.


You've slipped out of the context I was providing you and lost my point in doing so. Let me set this back up again. Your problem with forced feminization - boy becomes woman, boy is humiliated, ergo women equal bad. My retort - if getting off on humiliation is some kind of negative statement on the gender you are dressed as at the time, why wouldn't the same be true of NON-sissy subs? By your logic, they are lacking true gender awareness of males by reducing males to the negative stereotype of "sub".

I'll tell you why you're having difficulty keeping track of the analogy - because it's nonsense. And so is the thing I am directly analogizing. Calling someone who submits to women a misogynist is ridiculous. It makes no more sense than calling a male sub a misandrist. There's nothing at all wrong with feminization fetish. This is just a case of people who don't understand it deciding to look down on it.


quote:



I mention both books to you because in reading your posts, you are obviously in a LOT of pain and I think these books may alleviate some of your suffering.


Wohow. I was right with you until that line. Am I obviously in a lot of pain? Do tell me more.

My fetish, and even I'm getting sick of that word at this point, because really it's JUST crossdressing in the context of (occasionally) being a sub, is a source of great joy to me, and I don't know how I would get by without it. I love my sexuality, and I am completely at peace with myself, both en femme and not. You feel free to keep speculating about how damaged I am, and while you're doing that I'll continue pointing out the terrible logic of the people coming to this thread specifically to tell me how much of a closet woman-hater I am.

Because, you know, that makes me the bad guy.

quote:


If you watch that short video, and then re-read what you have characterized as "feminazi" perspectives, then you may understand more. Those who disagree with you are not uninformed. They disagree. Intelligent people can do that.


No, actually. They can't. It is possible to have an incorrect opinion, you know. Especially when regarding something definitely introspective. I'm being told WHAT I think and WHY. You don't get to have a "your way and my way", you don't get to have an "agree to disagree", you don't get to look down on me for challenging that mindset, because what's happening here is people are telling me what is going on in my head and condemning me for disagreeing.

If you expect me to stop fighting that, you have a lot to learn about just how tenacious a sub can really be when he/she is pissed off.

quote:

However, your posts are full of victimized perspective. The need for approval from others is painfully clear. The refusal to look at why this has to be forced and why this causes humiliation is limiting you.


Is it a requirement of this forum that rather than attempt to see someone else's point of view you must instead simply invent in vast, labyrinthine detail, what they must really be thinking? I don't need or care about anyone else's approval. What I am here to do is tell the people that are posting plenty of material telling the world that people like me are secretly woman-hating misogynist filth that they are wrong. There is a difference between wanting acceptance and simply not wanting hate.

As for why the "forced" element? Well that depends what we mean by forced. People seem to be responding as though the only thing we're talking about is a domme forcing a sub to dress up. Not necessarily the case. Often it's simply about BEING en femme around a domme. The "force" is merely that of any dom/sub relationship. So if we're going to speculate, I'd very much like to see you subject every single sub in this highly public BDSM community to your thorough psychoanalysis of why every sub is secretly broken and mentally unwell.


quote:

I wish you all the best.


If this is how you wish people well, I'd hate to see how you treat your enemies.

(in reply to BecomingV)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? - 11/25/2013 10:04:25 AM   
Mxybunny


Posts: 17
Joined: 3/30/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
To be fair, few people seem to know precisely why they've got this or that kink or fetish. I don't, about my own kinks. I don't know why I'm a submale, for instance. Into the void goes an awful lot of speculation. And of course, if a lot of people speculate their way towards the same conclusion . . . that speculation gets treated as something more akin to 'knowledge'. It really isn't, though, no matter how many people agree on it.

Sure, but I've never seen you make a dramatic claim that you understood something, when, in fact, you were only speculating. And I've never seen you say that everyone who disagrees with you is an idiot.

If he's going to make unsupported strong statements, I'm either going to ask him to justify them, or stop reading what he writes.



Thank you. But I have to say: it's seemed that a large wedge of what's been happening in this thread has been to do with telling Mxybunny what he feels and this depends on what appears to me still to be quite heavily dependent on speculation.



What is more incredulous to me is the fact that I think many of us would be hard pressed to define, clearly, the way some of our more complex fetishes work in our brains. At least, that's how it is for me. For those that just say, "Oh yah I swing a whip around and it feels gooooooooooooooooooood, yay, wheee" -- well, good for you. When I am making a man suffer, and I see tears in his eyes, and I feel myself getting aroused, those are complicated and complex feelings that have taken years to unravel and analyze. Some people who post here are at the tip of sorting them out.

I have some fetishes over items and scenarios I still don't quite "get."

When it comes to "feminization," some guys tried on some panties of a babysitter when they were 9 and got aroused, got embarrassed about it (because they knew what they were doing was wrong) and still finished off their orgasm. The memory of that act may have created a fetish. It has NOTHING to do with the shame of the weakness of being associated with women. It has to do with the shame of doing something they were not supposed to do, and getting turned on by it and how good it felt, and how pretty they looked.

And what is embarrassing here is that most sophisticated kinksters who have read at least one scientific journal or case study know that this is one of many ways this kind of fetish can take hold, and that "shame" combined with arousal is where this "embarrassment" manifests and it has absolutely NOTHING to do with misogyny. Yet, you use it as a way to slam this fetish. You do it against men who cannot yet articulate their feelings, just as I sure as hell could not articulate why I got off putting my hand over a man's nose and mouth until he struggled to breath when I was 16.

It would be like a bunch of kinksters ganging up on me saying, "You have a fetish for killing people. Admit it. You are one step away from murdering people. You obviously hate men."

Akasha



**hugs**

Thank you...

(in reply to AAkasha)
Profile   Post #: 100
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