RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it??

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RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? - 11/25/2013 10:06:00 AM

PeonForHer

Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
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quote:

. . . "shame" combined with arousal . . .

One small point: I've kind of given up trying to make the point that an awful lot of what we do is dependent on the tension between contradictory feelings. I have an image of myself as a strong man which is why I like feeling powerless with (certain) women. Some would like to be forced to feel feminine. If you want to be raped, it can't be rape. Etc., etc. "It's got to be one of the other, it can't be both!" goes the triumphant cry, every time. Jesus. Why do people assume that everyone's feelings when it comes to such primitive, irrational feelings as those of the sex drive must (and implicitly can) be so neat and logical?

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 11/25/2013 10:07:15 AM >

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Post #: 101

RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? - 11/25/2013 10:12:07 AM

SylvereApLeanan

Posts: 8275
Joined: 11/1/2007
From: Hell
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I'm still reading through all the responses but OMFG...

quote:

you can't understand
there ARE differences between the genders which is WHY you can't.
There are, indeed, weak feminine stereotypes.
Maybe we're the ones trying to escape the stereotype.
Maybe we just want to stop trying to live up to the title of male, for a moment.
Are you really that insecure?
you already overreacted
You're the only one with the problem
you're the one who needs to change.
People like you read into things what you already expect to see.
misandry
At least you guys got an equal rights movement.
You seem to be paranoid
If you think there aren't differences between the sexes, then you're a fool.
I've never met such a large group of uptight, judgmental[sexist slur removed by Moderator]all in one place

Guize...guize...

I think we got Bingo.

< Message edited by VideoAdminRho -- 11/25/2013 10:56:35 AM >

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Post #: 102

RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? - 11/25/2013 10:14:10 AM

VideoAdminRho

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This is a reminder: You may attack the post, but not the poster.

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Post #: 103

RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? - 11/25/2013 10:15:42 AM

Mxybunny

Posts: 17
Joined: 3/30/2012
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Boy I sure do love contentless criticism. Maybe you could give the cheerleading squad something more substantive to chant against me in the locker rooms. You know, really try to rub some salt in. You can do it!

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Post #: 104

RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? - 11/25/2013 10:15:50 AM

ChatteParfaitt

Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
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Let me see if I can break this down in sentences you can understand.

You told us how emasculated you feel when you are feminized. How women don't get to dress pretty, etc. From what you've said, you have an idea in your head that men are on one side, women on the other, and there's a huge chasm between them. Again, this is binary thinking.

Fluid thinking would be that everyone, male and female, is a combination of both male and female characteristics, and that enhancing one (feminine) does not detract from your *primary* characteristic (male).

You keep posting, and all your posts support my thinking that you see gender as binary, not fluid. You feel embarrassment and shame b/c you haven't accepted your feminine side.

If you had accepted it you WOULDN'T need to be forced.

There's the issue....you get turned on by being shamed when someone forces to accept a side of you you don't want to accept.

Now it's my very firm opinion that it's unacceptable not b/c females are different, but b/c they are lesser.

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Post #: 105

RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? - 11/25/2013 10:24:04 AM

ChatteParfaitt

Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

I've posted before about the time a friend asked me to rape her in exactly the same way as a real rapist really raped her. I learned that this is not uncommon -- a lot of victims want to replay the experience in a safe situation so they aren't victims anymore. I think doing something humiliating might have similar roots, at least for some people. Deep scars from being made fun of for liking girly things as a child, and I'm being humiliated again as an adult, but this time it's by someone who accepts and desires me. So the kink is imprinted because of the suffering caused by misogyny, rather than misogyny itself.

I take your point. Now, what would you think if that same person expected you to FORCE her to reenact her rape? Would you think that was healthy?

I like feminizing males. One of the most intimate moments I've had with my male sub was when we went out and bought make up for him and I did his face.

The big issue I have with sissies in general is it's all about THEM.

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Post #: 106

RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? - 11/25/2013 10:35:20 AM

RedMagic1

Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt
I take your point. Now, what would you think if that same person expected you to FORCE her to reenact her rape? Would you think that was healthy?

I didn't think the lady in my story was healthy, and I said no to her. In general, though, I think "forced" sex is a lot of fun, and I have rape-type fantasies in both directions. Even in vanilla, there are a lot of women who want to be sort-of-forced to have sex, because they've internalized that good girls don't open their legs.

I'm not saying that's the same kind of "forced" as "forced feminization," but I'm not saying it's different either. I don't know either way. I think Peon makes a good point about contradiction driving a lot of behavior.

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Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to ChatteParfaitt)

Post #: 107

RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? - 11/25/2013 10:36:08 AM

Mxybunny

Posts: 17
Joined: 3/30/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

Let me see if I can break this down in sentences you can understand.

You told us how emasculated you feel when you are feminized. How women don't get to dress pretty, etc. From what you've said, you have an idea in your head that men are on one side, women on the other, and there's a huge chasm between them. Again, this is binary thinking.

Haha, right. Because if there were men dressing up as women, you know, breaking the binary, there would be absolutely no criticism against that. I mean, shucks, what the hell was I thinking? All this time I've just been blind to the fact that crossdressing exists!

Wait...

quote:

Fluid thinking would be that everyone, male and female, is a combination of both male and female characteristics, and that enhancing one (feminine) does not detract from your *primary* characteristic (male).

Everything you post reveals a continuing trend of not listening to a single damn thing I'm saying. It's like having a conversation that goes:

"You like chocolate ice cream."
"No, I like strawberry."
"But I don't get why you like chocolate so much."
"I don't, I like strawberry."
"So you're saying you don't like raspberry?"
"I...guess...?"
"Therefore you like chocolate."
"No... see... look. I like strawberry ice cream. That doesn't mean I also like chocolate, just because it is also ice cream. And just because I don't like raspberry doesn't mean I must not like strawberry."
"I hear what you're saying."
"Thank you."
"Here's why I think you like chocolate ice cream so much..."

You're accusing me of being binary (y'know, the guy who sits between both genders) yet you can't comprehend a middle ground between being a woman or feeling embarrassment at being a woman BECAUSE you hate them. I have explained... oh, just so many times that it is the abandonment of the MALE role that causes the embarrassment. Being in a highly feminine role is entirely utilitarian, because it's simply the most not-male a person can be.

Being a woman does not DETRACT from my masculinity. Stepping OUT of my masculinity enables the stepping IN to a female role.

quote:

You keep posting, and all your posts support my thinking that you see gender as binary, not fluid. You feel embarrassment and shame b/c you haven't accepted your feminine side.

Now I know you're not taking this seriously. I've put myself out there, coming into this snake-pit to defend people with my specific gender preference, and you think I HAVEN'T accepted my feminine side? Oh for the love of god, just stop. I came into a public thread and admitted I like wearing heels and makeup and spilled my guts on the deepest aspects of my sexual identity. I struggle to believe YOU are as at peace with your sexuality as I am.

quote:

If you had accepted it you WOULDN'T need to be forced.

Let's play the "No one's listening to anything Mxybunny says" game again.

I'll repeat for your specific benefit the same point I have only just made several times.

Subs. Enjoy. Force.

YOU'RE the one making this about gender. Everything you say can be interpreted as a general judgement against the entire sub-population of this site. Are you really going to take on those odds?

quote:

There's the issue....you get turned on by being shamed when someone forces to accept a side of you you don't want to accept.

I *LOVE* the feminine side of myself, and the joy I get from indulging it is beyond measure. You can keep on speculating about how ashamed I am of it though, if you want. (Even though I responded to your last post with the specific point that I do NOT feel shame.)

"There's the issue, you love chocolate ice cream so much you won't even admit it!"

quote:

Now it's my very firm opinion that it's unacceptable not b/c females are different, but b/c they are lesser.

You seem to be under the impression that the more certain you proclaim yourself to be about a supposition, the more true it becomes. Are you trying to use your escalating insistence in my phantom misogyny as some kind of punishment for my continuing to explain to you what the truth is? Because, honestly, that's a little bit twisted.

"Uh-oh, there you go replying again. Now I'm really REALLY sure you like chocolate!"

< Message edited by Mxybunny -- 11/25/2013 10:45:44 AM >

(in reply to ChatteParfaitt)

Post #: 108

RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? - 11/25/2013 10:39:41 AM

ChatteParfaitt

Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline

Oh I love rape play....that is my number one fetish, if you can call it a fetish.

And I agree peon made an excellent point about contradiction driving behavior.

It's just it's been my experience that male subs who want to be forced into feminization b/c they find it humiliating are in a certain head space. Which is that they have huge parts of themselves that they do not accept.

I never once said all of them are like that, I've not met and interacted with all of them. But it does seem to be a strong trend.

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Post #: 109

RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? - 11/25/2013 11:25:12 AM

RedMagic1

Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt
It's just it's been my experience that male subs who want to be forced into feminization b/c they find it humiliating are in a certain head space. Which is that they have huge parts of themselves that they do not accept.

That's a comment I've seen from many femdoms over the years, along with the comment that the vast majority of sissies are self-absorbed.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to ChatteParfaitt)

Post #: 110

RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? - 11/25/2013 12:59:01 PM

ChatteParfaitt

Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline

I would agree with that as well; most sissies are self absorbed. I've met a few who seem not to be, but being sissy wasn't their primary interest.

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Post #: 111

RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? - 11/25/2013 4:54:37 PM

Rochsub2009

Posts: 2536
Status: offline

I was reluctant to participate in this thread because it has become so (unnecessarily) hostile. But I have a different take on forced fem, so I thought I'd share it.

For the most part, I am not into forced feminization. But past experience has shown that it can be erotic for me under the right circumstances. For those of you who don't know my background, I am a former Division I college basketball player. In many ways, I am a stereotypical jock. I go to the gym 4-5 times per week. Working out and playing basketball is a part of my lifestyle.

I remember one Domme who used to make me wear pink silk panties whenever I went to the gym. It was my first experience with forced feminization. After my workout, I wasn't allowed to wear my workout clothes home and then change clothes at the house. Nope, I had to put on the pink panties right there in the mens' dressing room for all to see.

It was humiliating. Not because I am a misogynist (as the ladies here always like to imply whenever the topic of forced feminization comes up), and not because I think that women are "less than". For me, the embarrassment stemmed from my jock friends seeing me wearing panties. Most of the guys know my reputation, and even at my age, i can still play basketball very well. I hold a certain amount of esteem in their eyes because of my b-ball prowess. But putting on the panties completely seemed to rip away any esteem that I held in their eyes.

I could see the poorly masked stares and snickers. I could tell from the looks on their faces that they were thinking "Is he gay?" My legend was being torn down right before my eyes. Yet, for some odd reason, despite my shame, I also found myself getting an erection each time I put on those panties.

Like Peon, I don't pretend to know why I got aroused. Nor do I understand the totality of why I felt humiliated. But I do know that the thought that women are inferior, or weak, or anything like that NEVER entered my mind. It was more about me being ashamed because I wasn't living up to the image that I had built up among the guys. I was breaking societal norms, and violating expectations. I would have been just as humiliated if I had to wear a clown suit to a business meeting. Yet, don't think it would be fair to say that my shame was an insult to clowns.

I shared that story because what I experienced differed from anything that I had read in this thread. I thought that it might be good to share a different perspective on the same kink (forced fem). Also, unlike some who have commented on this thread, my feminization was actually forced (i.e. I didn't ask/beg for it).

< Message edited by Rochsub2009 -- 11/25/2013 5:29:20 PM >

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Post #: 112

RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? - 11/25/2013 5:09:01 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mxybunny

Subs. Enjoy. Force.

No, subs enjoy submitting to the will of another.

Some bottoms enjoy force play, which is another thing totally.

I have asked to be forced when I was having trouble doing something I wanted to do for him. But the point of it wasn't that I was being forced. It was having him help me submit to him.

You have the force as the endpoint and not the submission. And that's pretty much a definition of a do-me sub.

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Post #: 113

RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? - 11/25/2013 5:09:29 PM

OttersSwim

Posts: 2860
Joined: 9/1/2008
Status: offline

Oh Roch...now we must despise you.

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Post #: 114

RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? - 11/25/2013 5:26:49 PM

Rochsub2009

Posts: 2536
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim

Oh Roch...now we must despise you.

But I still love you, OttersSwim.

(in reply to OttersSwim)

Post #: 115

RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? - 11/25/2013 5:47:33 PM

AAkasha

Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mxybunny

Subs. Enjoy. Force.

No, subs enjoy submitting to the will of another.

Some bottoms enjoy force play, which is another thing totally.

I have asked to be forced when I was having trouble doing something I wanted to do for him. But the point of it wasn't that I was being forced. It was having him help me submit to him.

You have the force as the endpoint and not the submission. And that's pretty much a definition of a do-me sub.

It can also be a totally simple, simple, painfully simple thing.

Have any femdoms ever put a totally VANILLA guy in panties?

Guess what. BOING.

Despite his best efforts. Instant raging hard on. Instant. I don't care how masculine he is. He gets instantly erect simply because that glorious, gorgeous feminine piece of lingerie, so associate with the thing he treasures most, that item he associates with the part of the body he often desires most, and the article of clothing made of SUCH soft, silky material. Add thigh high stockings? Doubly whammy. And it's tight. Snug. Impossible to ignore.

It has nothing to do with misogyny. And then he can't stop thinking about it. Triple whammy. Then often the next thing that happens? Orgasm. Boom. Reinforcement.

Everyone is overthinking it as an excuse to give them a reason to resent it.

Hell, I resent self indulgent, demanding, "Look at me! I am a sissy! Indulge me! Indulge my fantasies!" types just as much as the next femdom. Just as I tire of the foot fetishists who are looking for feet who happened to be attached to a woman.

Akasha

< Message edited by AAkasha -- 11/25/2013 5:48:06 PM >

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Post #: 116

RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? - 11/25/2013 5:51:58 PM

MAINEiacMISTRESS

Posts: 1180
Joined: 9/12/2012
Status: offline

I prefer to do it as a REWARD. If he's a GOOD BOY, he gets to wear his sissy clothes or maid uniform.

Where is the Humiliation if it's a Reward? ...I have him tend the flowers on the front lawn next to the road.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mxybunny

Subs. Enjoy. Force.

No, subs enjoy submitting to the will of another.

Some bottoms enjoy force play, which is another thing totally.

I have asked to be forced when I was having trouble doing something I wanted to do for him. But the point of it wasn't that I was being forced. It was having him help me submit to him.

You have the force as the endpoint and not the submission. And that's pretty much a definition of a do-me sub.

It can also be a totally simple, simple, painfully simple thing.

Have any femdoms ever put a totally VANILLA guy in panties?

Guess what. BOING.

Despite his best efforts. Instant raging hard on. Instant. I don't care how masculine he is. He gets instantly erect simply because that glorious, gorgeous feminine piece of lingerie, so associate with the thing he treasures most, that item he associates with the part of the body he often desires most, and the article of clothing made of SUCH soft, silky material. Add thigh high stockings? Doubly whammy. And it's tight. Snug. Impossible to ignore.

It has nothing to do with misogyny. And then he can't stop thinking about it. Triple whammy. Then often the next thing that happens? Orgasm. Boom. Reinforcement.

Everyone is overthinking it as an excuse to give them a reason to resent it.

Hell, I resent self indulgent, demanding, "Look at me! I am a sissy! Indulge me! Indulge my fantasies!" types just as much as the next femdom. Just as I tire of the foot fetishists who are looking for feet who happened to be attached to a woman.

Akasha

(in reply to AAkasha)

Post #: 117

RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? - 11/25/2013 5:59:46 PM

KYsissy

Posts: 781
Joined: 5/12/2005
Status: offline

I am just going to throw my $0.02 in to the mix here. When I was younger, and VERY conflicted about my urges. I had the forced feminization dreams. Now as a younger guy, in the pre internet age, I was feeling very very alone. My thoughts ran to "no woman would want me" and "I have to hide this". But I could not stop my urges. A "forced" scenario would say to me that my partner wanted it. Wanted it so much as to demand it. Demanding it would have equaled acceptance at that point in my life. In my mind, 20 years ago, it was just SOOOOOOO wrong. I felt I was not deserving of a good relationship. Now, women I did see at that point, I was able to show one small part, one benefit of a guy like me, and that was that I absolutely am a fiend for providing oral satisfaction. Friends that wound up dating one of my exes complained to me about that. LOL

I guess what I am trying to say is that when I was in my pre-acceptance mode, Having someone "force" me would have been just this side of heaven. Yes it would not have been truly forced. But my inner conflict of how "wrong" it is would have been greatly reduced to acceptance much earlier I think. I hated that side of me for many years. I felt like a complete wierdo. any relationship I might have would have to be based on a lie. But if she "Forced" the matter, then obviously it is what she truly wants,so it would have been okay.

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Post #: 118

RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? - 11/25/2013 6:16:07 PM

RedMagic1

Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KYsissy

I am just going to throw my $0.02 in to the mix here. When I was younger, and VERY conflicted about my urges. I had the forced feminization dreams. Now as a younger guy, in the pre internet age, I was feeling very very alone. My thoughts ran to "no woman would want me" and "I have to hide this". But I could not stop my urges. A "forced" scenario would say to me that my partner wanted it. Wanted it so much as to demand it. Demanding it would have equaled acceptance at that point in my life. In my mind, 20 years ago, it was just SOOOOOOO wrong. I felt I was not deserving of a good relationship. Now, women I did see at that point, I was able to show one small part, one benefit of a guy like me, and that was that I absolutely am a fiend for providing oral satisfaction. Friends that wound up dating one of my exes complained to me about that. LOL

I guess what I am trying to say is that when I was in my pre-acceptance mode, Having someone "force" me would have been just this side of heaven. Yes it would not have been truly forced. But my inner conflict of how "wrong" it is would have been greatly reduced to acceptance much earlier I think. I hated that side of me for many years. I felt like a complete wierdo. any relationship I might have would have to be based on a lie. But if she "Forced" the matter, then obviously it is what she truly wants,so it would have been okay.

I had a similar youth, in a way, because I wasn't comfortable with my desire to hit women. When I was 16, I thought I wouldn't, and shouldn't, ever be in a relationship. In college, when a woman fell in love with me, I was astonished. I just didn't think that was possible.

Your evolution from forced to not-forced seems to parallel how women who "need" to be "forced" change over time. Women in their thirties (and beyond) are much more likely to initiate sex, and to ask for what they want while sex is taking place. Meant in a vanilla way, women tend to start out sub and become more dom as they gain sexual and life experience. As they gain confidence, basically. So that pattern in your own story might be part of something universal.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to KYsissy)

Post #: 119

RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? - 11/25/2013 7:00:24 PM

JetOnly

Posts: 78
Joined: 11/6/2013
Status: offline

Wanting to be forced may not be what many people want in a sub and that is fine
It is still submitting tho, noone is left with no choice, you know and they know they could stop it at any time and that can add to the conflict, they no really deep down inside they are choosing to let it happen. Personally I love riding on the edge of the safeword, its fairly easy to submit to things you enjoy and want to happen, but things that have been hidden, shameful to you that you are turned on by them, that you struggle to accept and the final tipping point in favor of doing it is because this other person wants you to and you want to please them
I have been on both sides of that and it is pretty amazing to me. It's like a million voices screaming in your head all at once, then you give in and suddenly there is this peace
It may not be what everyone wants from a sub but it is very much submitting

(in reply to RedMagic1)

Post #: 120

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