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A stolen gun..... FFL checks on gun sales. - 11/23/2013 12:41:27 PM

MercTech

Posts: 3706
Joined: 7/4/2006
Status: offline

Just reporting some experience with FFL sale documentation.

A month ago, my uncle's house was broken into while he was out of town visiting his daughter. A computer, television, and his old work pistol were taken, among other things.

Two days ago, my uncle received his pistol back from the local ATF office. It was taken off a 17 year old kid trying to trade the .38 caliber revolver for an automatic at a gun show. The kid did a plea bargain and admitted guilty to possession of stolen property in exchange for identifying the persons he received the gun from. Hopefully the persons who have been doing lunch time house breaking will finally be caught.

Yesterday I had a look at the paperwork my uncle received when the ATF returned his pistol. The gun was manufactured in 1979. It was sold to a local gun shop in 1980. It was sold to my uncle in 1981. It came back to him because when they gun shop closed, the owner turned all of his records over to the ATF and they migrated into their computer database.

If I went down to a gun shop today and bought a firearm:
My ID would be checked and my info phoned in for a background check. The answer on my eligibility to buy a firearm would come back either over the phone or via computer in a few minutes.
The FFL paperwork would be completed and signed by myself and the seller.
The seller keeps the complete paperwork in his files for ATF inspection should they request.

The hard copy information on which weapon I bought stays with the seller.

Now, some states have further requirements such as registering ownership of a firearm with local law enforcement and even providing a ballistics sample of the firearm. My state only implements the federal requirement on records.

The ATF and FBI have wanted to maintain a computer database on ALL gun sales for several years. The funding to do so and the legislation making such legal has yet to pass Congress.

I thought I'd toss out this out as an advantageous effect of gun sales tracking and see if we can get some opinions tossing around about background checks for gun sales and who should get access to the records.

Post #: 1

RE: A stolen gun..... FFL checks on gun sales. - 11/23/2013 3:19:27 PM

EdBowie

Posts: 875
Joined: 8/11/2013
Status: offline

I have no overwhelming problem with screening out convicts, those adjudicated a danger, and those below a certain age from being able to walk into a store and walk right out with a weapon.

My only real caveat with the rest of us registering our ownership, is that in certain cities the media has seized upon the 'clever' idea of using the FOIA to get public gun records, and they've listed the names and addresses (minus their own of course)... sort of a 'break into this house when there's no one home' shopping list.

Of course I'm sure that we all understand that they have sagging profit margins to boost, and the more stolen guns out there, the better it is for the journo biz.

(in reply to MercTech)

Post #: 2

RE: A stolen gun..... FFL checks on gun sales. - 11/23/2013 7:02:13 PM

sloguy02246

Posts: 534
Joined: 11/5/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

Of course I'm sure that we all understand that they have sagging profit margins to boost, and the more stolen guns out there, the better it is for the journo biz.

Upon some reflection, I think you could have added that the more stolen guns out there, the better it is for the gun manufacturers as well.

(in reply to EdBowie)

Post #: 3

RE: A stolen gun..... FFL checks on gun sales. - 11/23/2013 7:17:46 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sloguy02246

quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

Of course I'm sure that we all understand that they have sagging profit margins to boost, and the more stolen guns out there, the better it is for the journo biz.

Upon some reflection, I think you could have added that the more stolen guns out there, the better it is for the gun manufacturers as well.

When stolen guns provide an excuse to put them out of business?

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to sloguy02246)

Post #: 4

RE: A stolen gun..... FFL checks on gun sales. - 11/23/2013 8:21:14 PM

tj444

Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: sloguy02246

quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

Of course I'm sure that we all understand that they have sagging profit margins to boost, and the more stolen guns out there, the better it is for the journo biz.

Upon some reflection, I think you could have added that the more stolen guns out there, the better it is for the gun manufacturers as well.

When stolen guns provide an excuse to put them out of business?

oh, stolen guns wont put gun manufacturers out of business (gun theft has been happening since guns were first invented) but 3D printers might some time in the future (perhaps sooner than people think)..

"Texas company makes metal gun with 3-D printer"
http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/08/tech/innovation/3d-printed-metal-gun/

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to BamaD)

Post #: 5

RE: A stolen gun..... FFL checks on gun sales. - 11/23/2013 8:42:00 PM

OsideGirl

Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

I have no overwhelming problem with screening out convicts, those adjudicated a danger, and those below a certain age from being able to walk into a store and walk right out with a weapon.

Agreed. I was perfectly happy to submit to a background check when I bought my pistols.

I do wish the authorities were more proactive about confiscating weapons from those that have been under 5150 holds, though.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to EdBowie)

Post #: 6

RE: A stolen gun..... FFL checks on gun sales. - 11/23/2013 9:24:22 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

I have no overwhelming problem with screening out convicts, those adjudicated a danger, and those below a certain age from being able to walk into a store and walk right out with a weapon.

Agreed. I was perfectly happy to submit to a background check when I bought my pistols.

I do wish the authorities were more proactive about confiscating weapons from those that have been under 5150 holds, though.

And prosecute those who are ineligible and try to buy anyway.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to OsideGirl)

Post #: 7

RE: A stolen gun..... FFL checks on gun sales. - 11/23/2013 9:32:49 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: sloguy02246

quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

Of course I'm sure that we all understand that they have sagging profit margins to boost, and the more stolen guns out there, the better it is for the journo biz.

Upon some reflection, I think you could have added that the more stolen guns out there, the better it is for the gun manufacturers as well.

When stolen guns provide an excuse to put them out of business?

oh, stolen guns wont put gun manufacturers out of business (gun theft has been happening since guns were first invented) but 3D printers might some time in the future (perhaps sooner than people think)..

"Texas company makes metal gun with 3-D printer"
http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/08/tech/innovation/3d-printed-metal-gun/

Your right I should have said an excuse to attack gun ownership

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to tj444)

Post #: 8

RE: A stolen gun..... FFL checks on gun sales. - 11/24/2013 2:55:38 AM

joether

Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline

I believe the moderators will agree with me that this thread belongs in the : unmoderated gun thread. And most if not all of you know that thread exists. Good try with trying to side-step the nature of this thread....

(in reply to BamaD)

Post #: 9

RE: A stolen gun..... FFL checks on gun sales. - 11/24/2013 6:48:49 AM

EdBowie

Posts: 875
Joined: 8/11/2013
Status: offline

Who says this thread isn't moderated? Not everyone wants to wade through all the name calling, and 'unmoderated' doesn't mean 'omnibus'.

(in reply to joether)

Post #: 10

RE: A stolen gun..... FFL checks on gun sales. - 11/24/2013 6:55:06 AM

VideoAdminChi

Posts: 3086
Joined: 8/6/2012
Status: offline

While part of the purpose of the unmoderated Zimmerman thread was to control the proliferation of Zimmerman threads, the unmoderated gun thread's purpose is simply to have an unmoderated thread.

In other words, this thread may continue.

(in reply to joether)

Post #: 11

RE: A stolen gun..... FFL checks on gun sales. - 11/24/2013 7:44:33 AM

sloguy02246

Posts: 534
Joined: 11/5/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: sloguy02246

quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

Of course I'm sure that we all understand that they have sagging profit margins to boost, and the more stolen guns out there, the better it is for the journo biz.

Upon some reflection, I think you could have added that the more stolen guns out there, the better it is for the gun manufacturers as well.

When stolen guns provide an excuse to put them out of business?

Respectfully, that wasn't the point of my post.

The post I was commenting about stated that stolen weapons could increase the revenue stream of various media outlets.
My point was that in addition to that, if someone's weapon was stolen, presumably the person who suffered the loss would need to purchase another weapon, thereby increasing the revenue stream of gun manufacturers.

I was not addressing any issue of gun manufacturing or gun ownership - only that the loss of a weapon would likely result in the purchase of another.

(in reply to BamaD)

Post #: 12

RE: A stolen gun..... FFL checks on gun sales. - 11/24/2013 5:04:01 PM

EdBowie

Posts: 875
Joined: 8/11/2013
Status: offline

Looking at the bigger picture...
Trying to find ways to lower the body count that aren't magical thinking, less stolen guns would seem to be good for society.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sloguy02246

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: sloguy02246

quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

Of course I'm sure that we all understand that they have sagging profit margins to boost, and the more stolen guns out there, the better it is for the journo biz.

Upon some reflection, I think you could have added that the more stolen guns out there, the better it is for the gun manufacturers as well.

When stolen guns provide an excuse to put them out of business?

Respectfully, that wasn't the point of my post.

The post I was commenting about stated that stolen weapons could increase the revenue stream of various media outlets.
My point was that in addition to that, if someone's weapon was stolen, presumably the person who suffered the loss would need to purchase another weapon, thereby increasing the revenue stream of gun manufacturers.

I was not addressing any issue of gun manufacturing or gun ownership - only that the loss of a weapon would likely result in the purchase of another.

(in reply to sloguy02246)

Post #: 13

RE: A stolen gun..... FFL checks on gun sales. - 11/24/2013 5:04:38 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sloguy02246

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: sloguy02246

quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

Of course I'm sure that we all understand that they have sagging profit margins to boost, and the more stolen guns out there, the better it is for the journo biz.

Upon some reflection, I think you could have added that the more stolen guns out there, the better it is for the gun manufacturers as well.

When stolen guns provide an excuse to put them out of business?

Respectfully, that wasn't the point of my post.

The post I was commenting about stated that stolen weapons could increase the revenue stream of various media outlets.
My point was that in addition to that, if someone's weapon was stolen, presumably the person who suffered the loss would need to purchase another weapon, thereby increasing the revenue stream of gun manufacturers.

I was not addressing any issue of gun manufacturing or gun ownership - only that the loss of a weapon would likely result in the purchase of another.

And I was merely pointing out that stolen guns used in crimes are one excuse anti gunners use to attack gn ownership.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to sloguy02246)

Post #: 14

RE: A stolen gun..... FFL checks on gun sales. - 11/24/2013 5:12:13 PM

EdBowie

Posts: 875
Joined: 8/11/2013
Status: offline

Just speaking for myself, I'd be just fine if this thread didn't turn into yet another endless pooh flinging game of dueling 'pro-gun' vs. 'anti-gun' soundbites.

The OP has brought up a useful and pragmatic notion, that unless one is wealthy enough to afford to replace stolen weapons on a whim, there is some possible advantage to law enforcement being able to get your property back to you.

(in reply to BamaD)

Post #: 15

RE: A stolen gun..... FFL checks on gun sales. - 11/25/2013 11:13:05 AM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

Just speaking for myself, I'd be just fine if this thread didn't turn into yet another endless pooh flinging game of dueling 'pro-gun' vs. 'anti-gun' soundbites.

The OP has brought up a useful and pragmatic notion, that unless one is wealthy enough to afford to replace stolen weapons on a whim, there is some possible advantage to law enforcement being able to get your property back to you.

Here in Alabama you can register your firearms with the Sheriff to be used only in case of theft.
I prefer keeping a record of serial numbers and using that if a gun were stolen.
If you give the cops the serial numbers of any guns stolen that should give you the same chance of getting them back without big brother watching you.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to EdBowie)

Post #: 16

RE: A stolen gun..... FFL checks on gun sales. - 11/25/2013 11:18:28 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

nope big brother in the guise of any cops, if they have them and have them stolen have to give those serials to ATF.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to BamaD)

Post #: 17

RE: A stolen gun..... FFL checks on gun sales. - 11/25/2013 11:48:19 AM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

nope big brother in the guise of any cops, if they have them and have them stolen have to give those serials to ATF.

Which is why I suggested keeping your own records.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 18

RE: A stolen gun..... FFL checks on gun sales. - 11/25/2013 11:52:26 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

nope big brother in the guise of any cops, if they have them and have them stolen have to give those serials to ATF.

Which is why I suggested keeping your own records.

If you give the cops the serial numbers of any guns stolen that should give you the same chance of getting them back without big brother watching you.

^^^^^^^^^^^hence my confusion, not clarity insofar as I am able to detect.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to BamaD)

Post #: 19

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