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RE: Common Core - 11/26/2013 5:55:37 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: leonine
When my son needed to get a job in the US, he checked and found that the surest way was to get a teaching diploma here in the UK. He explained that when "No Child Left Behind" called for lots more teachers, but didn't provide any extra money to train them, the target was met by dropping the standards and turning out "qualified" teachers who knew less than their classes. So any school that can afford it, hires teachers with foreign diplomas.
So yes, some of the US trained ones may well be outraged that they're now being expected to do a job they were never trained for.


WARNING!!! Good-natured ribbing ahead!

[ribbing]So, we've been outsourcing the training of our teachers to the UK?!? No wonder my kids didn't know why 1776 and 1791 were important. [/ribbing]

That's part of the problem we have in this country; if we don't have enough people meeting the standard, we just lower the standard. Rather than work to improve those not meeting the standard, or putting out incentives for people to improve themselves to meet the standard, we lower the standard. It's quite distressing, imo.

[tangent]
Much ado has been made about CC and proficiency standards based on race. It's also been much about truly nothing. Many criticize certain states that have different proficiency goals based on race, but ignore that it isn't individual proficiency, but aggregate proficiency.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/20/florida-education-race-based-goal_n_1991258.html

http://www.blackenterprise.com/news/florida-defends-different-school-standards-for-different-races/

FLA has set different standards for 2018, based on race. But, it reflects the reality that there are different proficiency gaps. With hypothetical numbers (purely hypothetical), if whites are proficient to 80% now and blacks are proficient only to 60%, would setting the 2018 bar at 90% for both groups truly be achievable, with the 2023 standard to be 100% for both groups? Or, would it be more realistic to have the white students' standard by 90% and the black students' standard to be 80%? Both reflect halving the proficiency gap from the current mark.
[/tangent]

This is something that could happen with Obamacare, as the need for physicians may rise dramatically while current medical school enrollment is effectively limited.

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
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(in reply to leonine)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Common Core - 11/26/2013 6:00:18 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
This is something that could happen with Obamacare, as the need for physicians may rise dramatically while current medical school enrollment is effectively limited.

That isn't actually much of a concern. We really train a lot more doctors than we need. We export a lot of medical training every year.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Common Core - 11/26/2013 6:13:54 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
This is something that could happen with Obamacare, as the need for physicians may rise dramatically while current medical school enrollment is effectively limited.

That isn't actually much of a concern. We really train a lot more doctors than we need. We export a lot of medical training every year.


Are we exporting Americans, or foreigners who have come here for training and then choose to go back to their home countries?




_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Common Core - 11/26/2013 11:27:25 AM   
EdBowie


Posts: 875
Joined: 8/11/2013
Status: offline 		I'm referring to the painfully obvious... that switching names from Passport Exams, to No Child Left Behind, to Common Core is purely cosmetic, and the bottom line is simply an attempt to quantify the 'biz' of education so that profits can be projected, and shares can be sold.

The standardized testing approach has been proven over and over and over to yield predictable results... teaching to, and cheating for, the test.

And the pedagogy that is packaged along with the test by the for profit education corporations, is set to the lowest common denominator... how to present the material so that the largest number of students will fall within the acceptable score range and the students who might do well in a more flexible learning environment are considered 'outliers' by the companies, and 'incompetent teaching' by the rich politicians that run the schools.


Is this really all news to you? 


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie
You can't use the lowest common denominator to make everyone above average.


I'm not sure what you're referring to, Ed.


(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Common Core - 11/26/2013 11:35:02 AM   
EdBowie


Posts: 875
Joined: 8/11/2013
Status: offline 		If education is simply a business, what concern is it of anybody's where the customers come from, or what they do with what they've bought and paid (often handsomely) for?

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
This is something that could happen with Obamacare, as the need for physicians may rise dramatically while current medical school enrollment is effectively limited.

That isn't actually much of a concern. We really train a lot more doctors than we need. We export a lot of medical training every year.


Are we exporting Americans, or foreigners who have come here for training and then choose to go back to their home countries?




(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Common Core - 11/26/2013 12:16:47 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

I'm referring to the painfully obvious... that switching names from Passport Exams, to No Child Left Behind, to Common Core is purely cosmetic, and the bottom line is simply an attempt to quantify the 'biz' of education so that profits can be projected, and shares can be sold.

Then you do not know anything on the subject. NCLB is not anything like Common Core. One is a law mandating testing and some really crappy funding cuts for poorly performing schools while the other is a set of educational standards.

(in reply to EdBowie)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Common Core - 11/26/2013 12:20:54 PM   
EdBowie


Posts: 875
Joined: 8/11/2013
Status: offline 		You are not being truthful.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

I'm referring to the painfully obvious... that switching names from Passport Exams, to No Child Left Behind, to Common Core is purely cosmetic, and the bottom line is simply an attempt to quantify the 'biz' of education so that profits can be projected, and shares can be sold.

Then you do not know anything on the subject. NCLB is not anything like Common Core. One is a law mandating testing and some really crappy funding cuts for poorly performing schools while the other is a set of educational standards.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Common Core - 11/26/2013 12:25:41 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

You are not being truthful.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

I'm referring to the painfully obvious... that switching names from Passport Exams, to No Child Left Behind, to Common Core is purely cosmetic, and the bottom line is simply an attempt to quantify the 'biz' of education so that profits can be projected, and shares can be sold.

Then you do not know anything on the subject. NCLB is not anything like Common Core. One is a law mandating testing and some really crappy funding cuts for poorly performing schools while the other is a set of educational standards.


What? Could you be slightly less cryptic? What part of what I wrote is incorrect in your opinion?

(in reply to EdBowie)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Common Core - 11/27/2013 4:29:30 PM   
SubvsSlave


Posts: 201
Joined: 4/6/2011
Status: offline 		I am against Common Core. Here is a really good link to a blog that is completely devoted to showing the side of Common Core that is not transparent. Bill and Melinda Gates are main players. The further I've dug, the deeper my heart dropped.

http://whatiscommoncore.wordpress.com/2013/04/04/hogwash-alert-national-review-on-common-core/

Has anyone heard of the Statewide Longitudinal Data System? It's just this creepy system that is now tracking all of our children from early learning through the workforce. There is no opt out option for parents. And it's directly related to the implementation of Common Core. If states wanted the money, part of the agreement was to implement this.

http://nces.ed.gov/programs/slds/

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Common Core - 11/27/2013 5:16:56 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SubvsSlave

I am against Common Core. Here is a really good link to a blog that is completely devoted to showing the side of Common Core that is not transparent. Bill and Melinda Gates are main players. The further I've dug, the deeper my heart dropped.

http://whatiscommoncore.wordpress.com/2013/04/04/hogwash-alert-national-review-on-common-core/

That has got to be one of the most ridiculous whine fests I've ever read. The gist of it was that Gate's funds Common core. So what? Does the source of the money make the standards bad? I'm a trained mathematician and have read over the math standards and they are very good. I'm less of an expert on English but the way they set up the standards for English look effective as well.

As to the teacher complaining that students are not forced to read "classical" literature, I looked over the standard and it requires extensive reading of fiction. It simply leaves what pieces up to the teacher.

quote:

Has anyone heard of the Statewide Longitudinal Data System? It's just this creepy system that is now tracking all of our children from early learning through the workforce. There is no opt out option for parents. And it's directly related to the implementation of Common Core. If states wanted the money, part of the agreement was to implement this.

http://nces.ed.gov/programs/slds/

Paranoid much? Student records already follow kids around.

(in reply to SubvsSlave)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Common Core - 11/27/2013 5:33:09 PM   
SubvsSlave


Posts: 201
Joined: 4/6/2011
Status: offline 		Another view of the Common Core math standards can be found here:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/wp/2013/10/31/a-ridiculous-common-core-test-for-first-graders/

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 31
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