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What influences world opinion on the US...does it mattter? - 7/3/2006 4:52:54 PM   
Dtesmoac


Posts: 565
Joined: 6/22/2006
Status: offline 		Cards on the table...I'm from the UK working in the US for 18 months and have been travelling to various states across the country for the last 5 years. A recent survey in the UK showed a significan drop in favourability towards the US and particulalry GWB  ( see www.telegraph.co.uk) other global poles also show very negative favorabilty towards the US  (www.pewglobal.org  /  www.worldreview.org) . After 9/11 there was universal sympathy and solidarity towards the US (in many countries) ....... what is the US preception on the reason for the change and does it matter? A recurrent question I have been asked in the US is why does everyone hate us? The forums I've looked at on CM seem to give straight talking opinionated responses......
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RE: What influences world opinion on the US...does it m... - 7/3/2006 5:01:04 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		it is bush- big business and yes it matters. we have to get along with others.

they underestimate the value of good will.

i am downright embarrassed over what we have come to be. we [usa] is like a rude univited dinner guest-

bush tactics and policy- demeanor will have a trickle down version= and imitators elsewhere.

not good.


(in reply to Dtesmoac)
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RE: What influences world opinion on the US...does it m... - 7/3/2006 6:46:50 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Our habit of invading sovereign nations and installing our own puppets.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dtesmoac

After 9/11 there was universal sympathy and solidarity towards the US (in many countries) ....... what is the US preception on the reason for the change and does it matter?

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RE: What influences world opinion on the US...does it m... - 7/3/2006 7:31:19 PM   
Estring


Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Most people envy our lifestyle. They also seem to think we are arrogant for believing that our country is the best.
It doesn't matter whether we are liked by the rest of the world because we are the best.  

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RE: What influences world opinion on the US...does it m... - 7/3/2006 8:11:15 PM   
Dtesmoac


Posts: 565
Joined: 6/22/2006
Status: offline 		:)  lol   three good responses (so far). 
LordandMaster - other countries also invade and set up puppets, so does this alone explain the view on the USA or is it something to do with the way the US does it.....?
Estring - perhaps a very American response.....or a Calafornia one.....  !!  Sweeping statements but can they be substantiated in the 21st Century what of the lifestyle do they / do you think they "envy" and what is the best from an American view point?

In other countries the perception of the USA can often be a limited caricature based upon George W, is it disapointment that the ideals quoted are not those displayed....... or are they / we missing something?   One aspect I think is the diversity and variety combined with at times a narrow outlook ...  look forward to other responses.


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RE: What influences world opinion on the US...does it m... - 7/3/2006 8:31:13 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Like who?  The Soviet Union wasn't beloved either.  What other country does it today?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dtesmoac

LordandMaster - other countries also invade and set up puppets

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RE: What influences world opinion on the US...does it m... - 7/3/2006 9:36:10 PM   
Dtesmoac


Posts: 565
Joined: 6/22/2006
Status: offline 		On the UN global security watch there are quite a few conflicts listed going back over the last 3 decades or so. From memory France often pops into old colonies to support / prop up Governments, the UK sends troops into the odd African country now and then sometimes to assist local African forces, the Democratic Republic of Congo has been helped by Rwanda, |Zimbabwe, Angola, Burundi & Ugandian troops, Russia Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, India and Pakistan have all had troops move across disputed boarders. Britain and Argentina had a spat over some islands, there is a constant supply of conflicts. On 13 May 2004 it was estimated there were 70 active armed conflicts in the world.

When Kosovo (Soverign nation Yugoslavia) and Afghanistan were invaded by Nato / US Coalition the view in many countries was positive.   LordandMaster I dont disagree with your statement I just think there is more to it than a simple perception that the US is throwing its weight around,...... thats part of it but is goes deeper and is more complex. Russia is / has been far more brutal in Chechnya  but does not evoke the same condemnation from the public of other countries - perhaps because they are expected to be brutal and aggressive?

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RE: What influences world opinion on the US...does it m... - 7/3/2006 10:53:00 PM   
Lordandmaster


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Status: offline 		I don't hear too much warm fuzzy rhetoric about Russia in the international media either.  Most people who bother to talk about Russia at all characterize it as a bully (and Putin as a hamfisted technocrat).  So I'd say it's a combination of things: (A) people don't consider Russia as much of a threat as the U.S.; (B) when they do talk about Russia, they usually don't have very many complimentary things to say about it.  (When I think of Russia, I can't decide whether to think of the recent pipeline conflict with Ukraine, or all the websites touting Russian mail-order bitches.)

Edited to add: Your examples of Afghanistan and Yugoslavia aren't really the same thing as, say Iraq, because the international community agreed that those governments had to be stopped.  There was far from the same universal agreement in the case of Iraq, and there isn't going to be anything like universal agreement concerning Iran, either.  Besides, it's not just Iraq.  We have a history of this shit.  Ousting Mossadegh?  Installing Noriega?  Uhhh...Saddam himself?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dtesmoac

Russia is / has been far more brutal in Chechnya  but does not evoke the same condemnation from the public of other countries - perhaps because they are expected to be brutal and aggressive?


< Message edited by Lordandmaster -- 7/3/2006 10:56:45 PM >

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RE: What influences world opinion on the US...does it m... - 7/4/2006 12:11:48 AM   
Kedikat


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Joined: 4/20/2006
Status: offline 		The US as in a lot of other countries, does not get a good unbiased recounting of it's history. Particularly the motives for what was done in it's past.
And I STRESS, as in a lot of countries. When you live in a country, you are likely to be told the very best version of it's actions. A key point in US and to a great extent Canadian views of the world, is the very real isolation of the continent. In most European countries you get a bombardment of radio and television signals from many neighbouring countries. ( one reason for the multi lingual capabilities of most Europeans ).

North America has been incredibly isolated in so many ways. Different views and takes on things are constant in Europe. In North America, it can be so very monotone. And it is getting worse in the mass media.

North Americans can be very one dimensional in their views. No real fault of their own. It takes an extra effort here to get more varied views on many international things.

It is no accident that American universitys are the sites of rude awakenings to the more harsh and detailed aspects of the countrys exploits. It is there that many are first exposed to the deeper more complex histories and motives. Were Europeans are exposed to it, on a more daily basis, from other countrys media. North Americans are often very sheltered from reality. Dissenting views being harder to find exposure to in the general media.

In no way am I saying we are stupid or willfully unaware. It is just not so much of our everyday experience to hear the complexity of things internationally, or historically.

This does lead to a great deal of the rest of the world, seeing us as very blatant and unquestioning of our rightness in what we do. To a great extent, they see us as quite shallow and maybe ignorant. But often is the case, that any individual real contact, reveals all human beings to be the same. Decent, striving, caring. But caught in the whirlpool.

I have the good fortune to travel in my work. And better yet, I see no tourist areas. I get to go out into the wilderness of some area and be a co worker with the local people. It is wonderful and an eye opener. For myself and them. Stereo types fall away. Reality is wonderful.


< Message edited by Kedikat -- 7/4/2006 12:16:51 AM >

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RE: What influences world opinion on the US...does it m... - 7/4/2006 12:37:24 AM   
srllile7


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Joined: 3/30/2006
Status: offline 		Personally the collapse of government during Katrina i think is another factor some over look.  With everything that happened during this catastrophe it be came apparent that even daily life in the U.S.  was not as it appeared.  With pictures of these wonderful American people killing and rapping each other in the face of a disaster while their government sat by and shot at them lol not exactly the American dream.  Just a little note to add  my thoughts.

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RE: What influences world opinion on the US...does it m... - 7/4/2006 1:35:37 AM   
philosophy


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Status: offline 		i don;t think the impact of guatanamo should be underestimated. One of the problems that america has is it says one thing and does another, sadly occasionally the opposite. You cant tell the world you stand for justice and, at the same time, hold people indefinitely without trial. Starts people down the line that begions with 'can you spell hypocrisy'.........

Oh, and as for lines like this "It doesn't matter whether we are liked by the rest of the world because we are the best." .....just imagine if you knew an individual who was like that, how incredibly annoying they'd be.........and america clearly isn't the best in all things. Some countries actually look out for the poor if natural disasters strike........

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RE: What influences world opinion on the US...does it m... - 7/4/2006 1:40:03 AM   
meatcleaver


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Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline 		I have to agree with a lot of what Kedikat says. I live in the Netherlands, I receive Dutch (of course), the British, Belgian, French, German, American CNN, Spanish and Turkish news (though I don't understand Turkish and Spanish but many people do). When it comes to major news events I always listen to several national versions and it is so so revealing and it means that politicians can't hide from people who take an active interest (though I wish more people would take an active interest). When I've been to the US, I can really feel isolated (maybe insulated is the correct word) from the rest of the world. The news does feel very one dimensional and there is very little international news. It is like the rest of the world exists on another planet.

Getting back to the original question. When Bush got power he pulled out of every meaningful international treaty or at least that was the perception, Kyoto, ICC etc and was very hostile to the UN. After 9/11, there was a genuine sense of goodwill towards the US but soon Bush was making it clear how hostile he was to international cooperation and thought he could bully countries into doing what America wanted for America's sake. He insulted much of Europe for questioning the war in Iraq and then when things went bad in Iraq he wanted people to help out. The French and Germans in particular thought, your mess, you sort it.

However, I think there is something more fundemental going on that has nothing to do with America itself and that is the rise of the east. When I was a teenager we looked towards all things US. Levis and Harley Davidisons and what they represented, freedom and the open road and we dreamt of travelling across the US, Easy Rider style. Japanese products were seen as a joke. Now my daughter and her friends look east to Japanese and Korean fashions, films and technology. When my daughter had the chance to travel, the US never entered her head, she wanted to go to Japan and Korea. It is not just her but many of her friends too.

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RE: What influences world opinion on the US...does it m... - 7/4/2006 2:39:13 AM   
Kedikat


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Status: offline 		I have found that the international version of CNN to be so much better than the homegrown one. But maybe I just saw it on good days.

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RE: What influences world opinion on the US...does it m... - 7/4/2006 4:52:19 AM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		Let's not forget the millions of people around the world that desire to make their way to America, to find their dreams.
 
Yes, America makes mistakes, as does every other nation--and the often abundant marxist and uber-feminist garbage one can find in our universities can indeed be "eye-opening", as well as one-sided bullshit.
 
There are those that will never like America, and never have, and that get a hard-on pointing out every negative they can. Do some of these make up a portion of the foreign news-corps that brings illumination to the rest of the world?
 
This isn't a condemnation of all the decent people of the world, certainly not of those with good hearts and fair minds that speak truth to power, whether that power be America, or someone else. It is a reminder that just because someone stands opposite of America, they aren't neccesarily right, or well-intentioned.
 
Happy Birthday, America .

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RE: What influences world opinion on the US...does it m... - 7/4/2006 5:00:08 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
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Status: offline 		I think politics is as much about perception as fact Level and Bush has introduced an icey feeling towards the US that wasn't there under Clinton. Even American business men aired their concern on the BBC world service that the perception of American politics is having an affect on the sale of US products which they said had never happened before and which they view with concern.

I think the fact is that wherever you go in the world, the majority of people are decent. It is only a few that affect the perception of their country. The war on Islam for instance, is really only a war on a relatively small extreme group.

Anyway. Happy Birthday America. Up the rebels!

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RE: What influences world opinion on the US...does it m... - 7/4/2006 5:08:28 AM   
Level


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Status: offline 		Well said, Meatcleaver. The one thing I would offer is that yes, Bush has had some adverse effects on our image, but I think much of those "icey feelings" were allready there; Bush just acted as an activating agent, of sorts, allowing those feelings to come out more in the open.
 
I do hope for more cooperation between America and it's allies, and even with some of our non-allies. A peaceful world is something I may never see, but I'll never stop wanting one.
 

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RE: What influences world opinion on the US...does it m... - 7/4/2006 5:35:56 AM   
peterK50


Posts: 433
Joined: 1/12/2006
Status: offline 		My father was a WWII vet. I cannot believe for second he would ever think his own government would: attack another country unprovoked, imprison & torture people, deny people access to the courts, spy on it's own citizens. This administration & its' supporters are a dangerous group. They believe they are one thing but are clearly another. When God is directing you who needs the voters? When the world dosen't buy their message the right attacks claiming treason & disloyalty. Ann Coulter calls them "Godless." The NY Times is attacked for pointing out their crimes. The world is justified for having a low opinion of the USA, just look around.

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RE: What influences world opinion on the US...does it m... - 7/4/2006 5:40:46 AM   
slavejali


Posts: 2918
Status: offline 		Some people from other countries dislike america for the influence it has had on changing their culture. Thats not my personal opinion. I think america rocks, but from travel experiences thats what I have heard.

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RE: What influences world opinion on the US...does it m... - 7/4/2006 5:44:35 AM   
pahunkboy


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Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		...what one ...just talk to small town folks in USA. you will find a decent bunch of people. the cities are frantic.

ild agree 100% the US media is insulated.



***
Post shortened to take out lengthy blank space.

< Message edited by Moderator15 -- 7/4/2006 6:58:43 AM >

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RE: What influences world opinion on the US...does it m... - 7/4/2006 5:48:49 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali

Some people from other countries dislike america for the influence it has had on changing their culture. Thats not my personal opinion. I think america rocks, but from travel experiences thats what I have heard.


I think this is a biggy and there is a lot of hypocrisy involved. People don't have to go to the cinema and watch American films, people don't have to buy American fashions, people don't have to buy American music. There is so much American stuff around because people buy it.

Though Coca Cola does seem all pervasive or some reason.

I have plenty of American literature and music on my shelf as well as plenty of European stuff and stuff from other parts of the wolrd. People shouldn't really complain about American culture if they are supporting it with their hard earned money but they do all the same!

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