...So long as it is legal

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MistressOfGa -> ...So long as it is legal (7/3/2006 9:57:32 PM)
I keep reading these words over and over on these boards "I will do it, so long as it is legal". What if it isn't? Most of WIITWD isn't legal, yet the very ones who are saying the above statement are the first to say they love to be restrained and spanked. Wouldn't that be assault? Wouldn't that be illegal? I suppose the question I am asking is this: What if the very activities that we enjoy so much were in fact illegal? Would you still be willing to jump up and down saying you won't do it if it is illegal? In the case of the age play question, is it legal? Does it matter? Wouldn't most of us do it anyway in the privacy of our own homes? Is it legal to take someone who is willing into the woods, tie her/him up and leave them there all day? If it isn't, would that stop us from doing it? If my partner has given me his consent to tie him to a tree and leave him there all day, it doesn't matter to me if it is illegal. If my partner has told me that he wants to do age play, and it is illegal, it doesn't matter one lick to me. We are two consenting adults playing in the privacy of our own home/property and it is no ones business, but ours. That is my opinion of the whole "As long as it is legal" argument. I know this subject has been touched on several times, and it wouldn't bother me at all if someone (LA? lol) wants to post links to past discussions. I am not the best of writers, so please don't get caught up on how I worded this post. I think my meaning is pretty clear <s>

Caretakr -> RE: ...So long as it is legal (7/3/2006 10:11:48 PM)
This is why a lot of us fly under the radar. Perhaps a person wants to be kept like a historical slave. Restrained,out of sight,isolated and cloistered,the authorities might look askance at this. Then it get as bit knotty,the slave initally consents then withdraws it. The master refuses to let the captive go. There was actually a real case involving this,the Master and an accomplice actually did prison time. So when it comes down to it-no. I'm going to respect the law-it's not worth going to jail over kink.

ownedgirlie -> RE: ...So long as it is legal (7/3/2006 10:12:05 PM)
Maybe it's selective illegatily? Isn't sodomy illegal in most states, after all? Maybe what people really mean is, "There are certain illegalities I will not do." I'm not sure. It's never come up with Master and I. I have never been required to do something that would lock me up. I can't imagine he would have me locked up, because his access to me would be limited :)

truesub4u -> RE: ...So long as it is legal (7/3/2006 10:18:27 PM)
I make sure I am specific on my "Only if it's legal statements... living in the bible belt.. there are so many crimes against nature... it isn't funny. I prefer the.. let's go break the law baby... lol

MistressOfGa -> RE: ...So long as it is legal (7/3/2006 10:22:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Caretakr This is why a lot of us fly under the radar. Perhaps a person wants to be kept like a historical slave. Restrained,out of sight,isolated and cloistered,the authorities might look askance at this. Then it get as bit knotty,the slave initally consents then withdraws it. The master refuses to let the captive go. There was actually a real case involving this,the Master and an accomplice actually did prison time. So when it comes down to it-no. I'm going to respect the law-it's not worth going to jail over kink. Caretakr, You raise some really interesting points. Because my interests are geared more towards submissives, not slaves, I hadnt thought about a Master/slave relationship. I am not sure what I would do if I owned a slave and ended up going to jail for something that was clearly consentual to begin with. But I suppose the law would supersede the consent of the slave.

MistressOfGa -> RE: ...So long as it is legal (7/3/2006 10:27:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie Maybe it's selective illegatily? Isn't sodomy illegal in most states, after all? Maybe what people really mean is, "There are certain illegalities I will not do." I'm not sure. It's never come up with Master and I. I have never been required to do something that would lock me up. I can't imagine he would have me locked up, because his access to me would be limited :) This is why trust is so important. This is why I dont understand people who can form such a trusting relationship with someone they just met. It takes a long time for that kind of trust to be in place in my opinon. You trust your Master to not have you locked up, but he trust that you do not get pissed off at him one day and accuse him of illegal acts with/upon you and you want to press charges against him. Forget love, I will take trust over love any day of the week <s>

MistressOfGa -> RE: ...So long as it is legal (7/3/2006 10:28:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: truesub4u I make sure I am specific on my "Only if it's legal statements... living in the bible belt.. there are so many crimes against nature... it isn't funny. I prefer the.. let's go break the law baby... lol Oh Jessica, don't even get me started on "life in the bible-belt" lol

ViborgHerre -> RE: ...So long as it is legal (7/3/2006 10:39:30 PM)
Well Is the question wheather or not is it illegal: anal and even oral sex is not legal in som US States, so perhaps the question is: Do I get caught? I do accept limits, however I try to push them - taboos I leave well alone; hopefully the are the same for my partner and I. ( limits could be same sex play- taboo fecess or animals) So understanding is to be done in each case, understanding and accepting the partner as a person - a human being. What can be said in profiles and ad's is just the beginning and will be based on the rules accepted by society. Dear MoGa - Any special laws You want to have broken? Regards Peter

HarryVanWinkle -> RE: ...So long as it is legal (7/3/2006 10:41:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Caretakr This is why a lot of us fly under the radar. Perhaps a person wants to be kept like a historical slave. Restrained,out of sight,isolated and cloistered,the authorities might look askance at this. Then it get as bit knotty,the slave initally consents then withdraws it. The master refuses to let the captive go. There was actually a real case involving this,the Master and an accomplice actually did prison time. So when it comes down to it-no. I'm going to respect the law-it's not worth going to jail over kink. There's illegal and ILLEGAL. Indeed many of the things we do are, technically, illegal. This is due to literally thousands of sex laws in the various states and it would require more than a little research to find out just what activities are against local laws. Since I live in the most progressive community in my Arizona, I wouldn't refuse to participate in certain activities simply because there are laws against it.. I think that the likelyhood of being prosecuted for reasonably safe, totally consensual activities here is very small. I think the important thing is a reasonable degree of safety and consent. The case you wrote of, Caretakr, is State of Nebraska vs. Van. As the accomplice eventually helped the "victim" escape and turned states evidence against Van, he got off with a very light sentence. The fact is, what Van did wasn't just illegal, it was ILLEGAL. One cannot legally give up the right to withdraw consent. I would be quite willing to participate in quite a few activities that are illegal as long as consent was maintained. If consent is withdrawn, that's it, the activity is OVER.

BitaTruble -> RE: ...So long as it is legal (7/3/2006 10:58:16 PM)
I don't worry to much about most misdemeanors. It's the felonies which make me blink and think. Celeste

Lordandmaster -> RE: ...So long as it is legal (7/3/2006 11:02:05 PM)
Yeah, I agree with MoGa. "Legal" isn't a very good standard for the BDSM life, because the laws vary, are inconsistent--and are usually stupid, too.

MistressOfGa -> RE: ...So long as it is legal (7/3/2006 11:03:13 PM)
quote: Dear MoGa - Any special laws You want to have broken? Maybe <s>

truesub4u -> RE: ...So long as it is legal (7/3/2006 11:09:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MistressOfGa quote: ORIGINAL: truesub4u I make sure I am specific on my "Only if it's legal statements... living in the bible belt.. there are so many crimes against nature... it isn't funny. I prefer the.. let's go break the law baby... lol Oh Jessica, don't even get me started on "life in the bible-belt" lol awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww shucks!... and here I have a whole bag of grannysmiths and fresh coffee...and no one to debate with..... [;)]

ownedgirlie -> RE: ...So long as it is legal (7/3/2006 11:14:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MistressOfGa quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie Maybe it's selective illegatily? Isn't sodomy illegal in most states, after all? Maybe what people really mean is, "There are certain illegalities I will not do." I'm not sure. It's never come up with Master and I. I have never been required to do something that would lock me up. I can't imagine he would have me locked up, because his access to me would be limited :) This is why trust is so important. This is why I dont understand people who can form such a trusting relationship with someone they just met. It takes a long time for that kind of trust to be in place in my opinon. You trust your Master to not have you locked up, but he trust that you do not get pissed off at him one day and accuse him of illegal acts with/upon you and you want to press charges against him. Forget love, I will take trust over love any day of the week <s> I agree with you MoG. Without trust, we are in trouble. I did not start out trusting Master to not have me locked up. In fact believe me - that question came up a few times! But over time, I got to know him, how he thinks, what he believes, his values, his philosophies, etc...and in my experiences with him, I know he would rather keep me at his beck and call and not in a jail cell, and he would rather keep me alive to entertain him, and he would rather keep my parts in tact so he can enjoy them. And yes, he trusts that I won't expose him to his clients, his community, etc. For us, trust developed first, and love followed. If I could not trust him, how could I love him?

Slipstreme -> RE: ...So long as it is legal (7/3/2006 11:24:12 PM)
I would rather run the risk of consent fading, and my submissive/ slave turning me in for assault than give up who and what I am. Thankfully the chances of this happening are nil, and I have brought out the interest in kink of many people I have talked to out of them, and on occassion helped introduce them into it. I think it all comes down to what kind of illegalities will actually bring the attention of the authorities on the submissive or Dominant that leads them to say that. For example. I would have my slave suffer a heavy beating (one she would surely enjoy as I was blessed with a pain slut), but never order her to rob a bank or murder an enemy of mine. Surely, by law, the beating counts as assualt, irregardless of whether or not consent was given, but thankfully the judges do usually politely turn their heads when the submissive or slave admits consent, when attention is drawn to the marks on her body. What you and your slave or submissive accept as legal and illegal will differ from what is law, but it is up to you to know where the lines are drawn. Life is too short not to run risks. If you are too cautious, you never really get to live.

truesub4u -> RE: ...So long as it is legal (7/3/2006 11:33:26 PM)
Hi slip.. nice to see you again posting... I do hope it's known.. when i said let's go break the law.. i was refering to gerneral things... oral.. anal.. bondage... not actual law breaking... was just refering to bible belt things is all... [:)]

Slipstreme -> RE: ...So long as it is legal (7/3/2006 11:46:29 PM)
quote: Hi slip.. nice to see you again posting... Thanks. Yeah it has been a while. My life has taken a couple drastic changes within the last two weeks. But all's good (although the distance is killing me). I just now got a chance to look at some of the new posts. I figured that much, although honestly, a lot of what we do, especially for pain and control, is, by law, illegal. We're just lucky is all. :P

ViborgHerre -> RE: ...So long as it is legal (7/4/2006 12:10:26 AM)
Helloo again SLIPSTREAM wrote: quote: Surely, by law, the beating counts as assualt, irregardless of whether or not consent was given ... So that is why so many proffesional boxers are in jail in the US? Regards Peter

hizgeorgiapeach -> RE: ...So long as it is legal (7/4/2006 6:45:55 AM)
(fast reply here) When push comes to shove - I'm of the personal opinion that "as long as it's Legal" is a matter of degrees. I've taken part in similar debates/discussions in the past (though not here on the CM forums) and inevitably, one thing comes to light. This sort of statement typically crops up for one of two specific reasons. (a) The person hasn't been involved in BDSM long enough to have found out that much of what we do (physically) is against the law in various portions of the country to lesser or greater extent. (Yep, I'm another one who lives in the Bible Belt - and where I live, it's "technically" illegal to do anything other than missionary, in your own bed, with your legal spouce. It's rarely Prosecuted unless it's adjunct charges along with something like prositution - but if they really had it in for you, it could be used.) And (b) It crops up during the course of a "no limits" discussion, as a means of showing that those who claim "no limits" do indeed have them. Sort of a "ok, so if your owner tells you to go rob a bank and murder all the tellers while you're there, you'll do it? After all, you just said you had NO limits to your obedience to your owner" type of thing. I guess that would fall under the same sort of classification as HVW's "illegal vs ILLEGAL" line of thinking. (Yes, I know, it seems a tad strange to look at "other" types of illegality in a community that centers on Sexuality - yet a distinction has to be made when discussing it, or you never know whether they mean literally anything illegal, or just those things which are non sexual but illegal.)

LokisBrat -> RE: ...So long as it is legal (7/4/2006 7:20:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: truesub4u quote: ORIGINAL: MistressOfGa quote: ORIGINAL: truesub4u I make sure I am specific on my "Only if it's legal statements... living in the bible belt.. there are so many crimes against nature... it isn't funny. I prefer the.. let's go break the law baby... lol Oh Jessica, don't even get me started on "life in the bible-belt" lol awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww shucks!... and here I have a whole bag of grannysmiths and fresh coffee...and no one to debate with..... [;)] I love a good debate......Have the coffee brewing and will be ready. Living here in the "Bible Belt" myself and being a Pagan, I generally get alot of second looks and lots of church flyers stuck in my door. As for "So long as it is legal", I would say almost all the activities I participate in can be seen as Illegal. With so many blue laws on the books in this predominately Christian based area, it's hard to move without breaking the law. LOKI Edited due to Brat waking up and being so kind as to point out my errors[sm=rolleyes.gif]

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