RE: ...So long as it is legal

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truesub4u -> RE: ...So long as it is legal (7/4/2006 7:30:43 AM)
Oh you are right there..... NC just recently removed one old law... that a husband could take his wife to the court house steps on the 3rd sunday of each month and beat her for Xamount of time ( I forget just how long)... but due to the spouse abuse laws.. it was finally removed.. but the small print in it strongly urged the husband to sleep with all sharp objects tucked safely away.... guns locked up...and 1 eye open at all times...LOL Alot of what we think of is a good time.. is illegal... just like.. if it taste good.. it's not good for you now a days... if it feels good... it's wrong....

MHOO314 -> RE: ...So long as it is legal (7/4/2006 7:41:55 AM)
First of all MoG, I am pleased to see you active posting again, I assume there are now more joyous rainbows in your life---<smiles> You ask a good question---however, having been a police officer in and worked for safety in our life for years---I think we need to look at legallity, consensuality and common sense---for example: Two consenting adults engage in breath play--legal-- as they consented and it is not an act against the law---one dies--now legality, consensuality and common sense have flown out the window and a crime has been committed. Two consenting adults--agree that one will be tied to a tree naked in the woods and left--said tree hugger gets snake bit and dies while waiting for the other to return---legal, consensual--common sense--well one could argue---but at the point of death---it becomes illegal, proof of consent lost and common sense will be tested before a jury of peers. Yes, these may be extreme cases, BUT they prove a point-- When most of us talk of legality, consensuality---we ASSUME this is all tempererd with common sense--and this is no different than in vanilla life---but we tend to dance on the saber in our world more than others. IMHEO, at all times those three things must be factored in together--then the fourth and fifth ingredients must be added----skill and ego. Lack of skill and an overinflated ego can make the three key elements fly in the face of illegality---My point is, legal--as long as you don't get caught, something goes wrong, or someone doesn't get peod and scream abuse---once that happens---it becomes a crime.

agirl -> RE: ...So long as it is legal (7/4/2006 7:46:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster Yeah, I agree with MoGa. "Legal" isn't a very good standard for the BDSM life, because the laws vary, are inconsistent--and are usually stupid, too. Yes, if legality was applied in the full sense.. I am aware that I break the law on a regular basis. I have never been quite sure what people mean when they say * as long as it's legal* ....they rarely elaborate. Sometimes people mean as long as it's a law I'M prepared to break......and in the next breath, condemn others for THEIR law-breaking. People can be rather selective about what they believe or decide applies to them...... as in * I'm able to decide that this law needn't apply to ME , but I'm pleased that it applies to others*. I am guilty of being selective in such a way. agirl

Caretakr -> RE: ...So long as it is legal (7/4/2006 7:50:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: agirl quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster Yeah, I agree with MoGa. "Legal" isn't a very good standard for the BDSM life, because the laws vary, are inconsistent--and are usually stupid, too. Yes, if legality was applied in the full sense.. I am aware that I break the law on a regular basis. I have never been quite sure what people mean when they say * as long as it's legal* ....they rarely elaborate. Sometimes people mean as long as it's a law I'M prepared to break......and in the next breath, condemn others for THEIR law-breaking. People can be rather selective about what they believe or decide applies to them...... as in * I'm able to decide that this law needn't apply to ME , but I'm pleased that it applies to others*. I am guilty of being selective in such a way. agirl I really just prefer to be with someone who wants the same things that I do-and have some mutual trust. And I'd still prefer to keep things on the up and up-even if it means relocating to do that. A sense of security is worth it.

MistressOfGa -> RE: ...So long as it is legal (7/4/2006 7:55:57 AM)
quote: Dear MoGa - Any special laws You want to have broken? Yes, I would like to tie my giraffe to a lamp post after sunset in Atlanta. Can you arrange that? If not, perhaps you can take me to Montgomery Alabama so I can walk down the street with an icecream cone in my back pocket after sunset. Can you arrange that? rotflmao!!! Both are against the law!

truesub4u -> RE: ...So long as it is legal (7/4/2006 7:56:24 AM)
MHOO..... morning Ma'am... you bring up very good points.. The part I always worried about ..... was someone crying wolf. And I often think of what doms go thru... someone yelling foul.... after not getting what they want.. nilla's too go thru the same.. not just doms. I've raised my girls not to cry wolf.. for if the wolf ever shows..no one will believe.. just like the story..

agirl -> RE: ...So long as it is legal (7/4/2006 8:03:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Caretakr quote: ORIGINAL: agirl quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster Yeah, I agree with MoGa. "Legal" isn't a very good standard for the BDSM life, because the laws vary, are inconsistent--and are usually stupid, too. Yes, if legality was applied in the full sense.. I am aware that I break the law on a regular basis. I have never been quite sure what people mean when they say * as long as it's legal* ....they rarely elaborate. Sometimes people mean as long as it's a law I'M prepared to break......and in the next breath, condemn others for THEIR law-breaking. People can be rather selective about what they believe or decide applies to them...... as in * I'm able to decide that this law needn't apply to ME , but I'm pleased that it applies to others. I am guilty of being selective in such a way. agirl I really just prefer to be with someone who wants the same things that I do-and have some mutual trust. And I'd still prefer to keep things on the up and up-even if it means relocating to do that. A sense of security is worth it. Hello Caretakr, I can understand your ideas there. I haven't always kept to the law* from the time I was a child.........I have few qualms about that at all. It's something that I have a healthy appreciation of but not something that I live by in a pedantic fashion. The law is extremely useful a lot of the time and an ASS some of the time. I quietly mix and match what suits me....lol agirl

MistressOfGa -> RE: ...So long as it is legal (7/4/2006 8:06:12 AM)
quote: but thankfully the judges do usually politely turn their heads when the submissive or slave admits consent, when attention is drawn to the marks on her body. I often wonder about this. I know that in Georgia if police are called out to a domestic dispute, the decision to press charges against the "abuser" is taken away from the "victim". So the threat of retaliation isn't a deciding factor. The police can now press charges against the one doing the assaulting. So if my submissive is standing there with bruises all over him, admitting to the police that he wanted to be beaten, he would have to be extremely convincing, otherwise the police on the scene could decide to press charges against me anyway. They would just assume that my sub is trying to protect his "abuser", which is often the case in domestic disputes/abuse. <having my first cup of coffee...Good morning!>

Caretakr -> RE: ...So long as it is legal (7/4/2006 8:06:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: agirl quote: ORIGINAL: Caretakr quote: ORIGINAL: agirl quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster Yeah, I agree with MoGa. "Legal" isn't a very good standard for the BDSM life, because the laws vary, are inconsistent--and are usually stupid, too. Yes, if legality was applied in the full sense.. I am aware that I break the law on a regular basis. I have never been quite sure what people mean when they say * as long as it's legal* ....they rarely elaborate. Sometimes people mean as long as it's a law I'M prepared to break......and in the next breath, condemn others for THEIR law-breaking. People can be rather selective about what they believe or decide applies to them...... as in * I'm able to decide that this law needn't apply to ME , but I'm pleased that it applies to others. I am guilty of being selective in such a way. agirl I really just prefer to be with someone who wants the same things that I do-and have some mutual trust. And I'd still prefer to keep things on the up and up-even if it means relocating to do that. A sense of security is worth it. Hello Caretakr, I can understand your ideas there. I haven't always kept to the law* from the time I was a child.........I have few qualms about that at all. It's something that I have a healthy appreciation of but not something that I live by in a pedantic fashion. The law is extremely useful a lot of the time and an ASS some of the time. I quietly mix and match what suits me....lol agirl Well,when they pass a law against breathing, I will be tempted to pick up my Remington 700 and indulge in a bit of target practice-I'll stick to the straight and narrow until that day.[;)]

MistressOfGa -> RE: ...So long as it is legal (7/4/2006 8:10:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: truesub4u Hi slip.. nice to see you again posting... I do hope it's known.. when i said let's go break the law.. i was refering to gerneral things... oral.. anal.. bondage... not actual law breaking... was just refering to bible belt things is all... [:)] Damn! Just when I was thinking you were my type of girl too! lmao! quote: So that is why so many proffesional boxers are in jail in the US? Oooooh Touche'

MHOO314 -> RE: ...So long as it is legal (7/4/2006 8:17:36 AM)
If I may also add that as long as it is sanctioned by the ruling power for the good of the "moral majority", then it is legal---take a look a Rome and Greece centuries ago---Japan and China not too long ago--and our own country in regards to what was the best benefit of society.

MistressOfGa -> RE: ...So long as it is legal (7/4/2006 8:22:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MHOO314 First of all MoG, I am pleased to see you active posting again, I assume there are now more joyous rainbows in your life---<smiles> MH, Thank you, and yes there are many more joys in my life than there were when we last spoke. It feels good to post again :) <hugs> as always. You ask a good question---however, having been a police officer in and worked for safety in our life for years---I think we need to look at legallity, consensuality and common sense---for example: Two consenting adults engage in breath play--legal-- as they consented and it is not an act against the law---one dies--now legality, consensuality and common sense have flown out the window and a crime has been committed. Two consenting adults--agree that one will be tied to a tree naked in the woods and left--said tree hugger gets snake bit and dies while waiting for the other to return---legal, consensual--common sense--well one could argue---but at the point of death---it becomes illegal, proof of consent lost and common sense will be tested before a jury of peers. I agree and normally I dont write up actual contracts with my submissive, however, in this case I would have a consent form for him to sign. Will it be a legal piece of paper? I don't know. But it will prove that he wanted to be tied to the tree and left there. Will it keep me from going to prison, should he die while tied to the tree? I don't know. But this is information that I would make an effort to find out before we engaged in that type of play. Yes, these may be extreme cases, BUT they prove a point-- When most of us talk of legality, consensuality---we ASSUME this is all tempererd with common sense--and this is no different than in vanilla life---but we tend to dance on the saber in our world more than others. IMHEO, at all times those three things must be factored in together--then the fourth and fifth ingredients must be added----skill and ego. Lack of skill and an overinflated ego can make the three key elements fly in the face of illegality---My point is, legal--as long as you don't get caught, something goes wrong, or someone doesn't get peod and scream abuse---once that happens---it becomes a crime. But, does it become a crime if the one screaming abuse has signed a piece of paper saying that they wanted the "abuse" to happen? Maybe they can say that they were forced to sign it, but that is why we have notary's. By the way, this is for arguments sakes, personally I would not tie anyone up and leave them alone.

MistressOfGa -> RE: ...So long as it is legal (7/4/2006 8:28:42 AM)
quote: Alot of what we think of is a good time.. is illegal... just like.. if it taste good.. it's not good for you now a days... if it feels good... it's wrong.... In the 70's I had a two bumper stickers on my car: "If it feels good, do it!" "Candy is dandy, but sex won't rot your teeth" I know, a random thing to post, but your quote reminded me of them lol

Caretakr -> RE: ...So long as it is legal (7/4/2006 8:29:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MistressOfGa quote: ORIGINAL: MHOO314 First of all MoG, I am pleased to see you active posting again, I assume there are now more joyous rainbows in your life---<smiles> MH, Thank you, and yes there are many more joys in my life than there were when we last spoke. It feels good to post again :) <hugs> as always. You ask a good question---however, having been a police officer in and worked for safety in our life for years---I think we need to look at legallity, consensuality and common sense---for example: Two consenting adults engage in breath play--legal-- as they consented and it is not an act against the law---one dies--now legality, consensuality and common sense have flown out the window and a crime has been committed. Two consenting adults--agree that one will be tied to a tree naked in the woods and left--said tree hugger gets snake bit and dies while waiting for the other to return---legal, consensual--common sense--well one could argue---but at the point of death---it becomes illegal, proof of consent lost and common sense will be tested before a jury of peers. I agree and normally I dont write up actual contracts with my submissive, however, in this case I would have a consent form for him to sign. Will it be a legal piece of paper? I don't know. But it will prove that he wanted to be tied to the tree and left there. Will it keep me from going to prison, should he die while tied to the tree? I don't know. But this is information that I would make an effort to find out before we engaged in that type of play. Yes, these may be extreme cases, BUT they prove a point-- When most of us talk of legality, consensuality---we ASSUME this is all tempererd with common sense--and this is no different than in vanilla life---but we tend to dance on the saber in our world more than others. IMHEO, at all times those three things must be factored in together--then the fourth and fifth ingredients must be added----skill and ego. Lack of skill and an overinflated ego can make the three key elements fly in the face of illegality---My point is, legal--as long as you don't get caught, something goes wrong, or someone doesn't get peod and scream abuse---once that happens---it becomes a crime. But, does it become a crime if the one screaming abuse has signed a piece of paper saying that they wanted the "abuse" to happen? Maybe they can say that they were forced to sign it, but that is why we have notary's. By the way, this is for arguments sakes, personally I would not tie anyone up and leave them alone. Waivers to sign rights away usually don't hold up in court-it's too easy to argue that they were cooerced. You are still back to having to do right, and keep your partner's trust. There are no quick fixes, and codification and structure alone will never be adequate replacements for basic relationship skills.

agirl -> RE: ...So long as it is legal (7/4/2006 8:29:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Caretakr quote: ORIGINAL: agirl quote: ORIGINAL: Caretakr quote: ORIGINAL: agirl quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster Yeah, I agree with MoGa. "Legal" isn't a very good standard for the BDSM life, because the laws vary, are inconsistent--and are usually stupid, too. Yes, if legality was applied in the full sense.. I am aware that I break the law on a regular basis. I have never been quite sure what people mean when they say * as long as it's legal* ....they rarely elaborate. Sometimes people mean as long as it's a law I'M prepared to break......and in the next breath, condemn others for THEIR law-breaking. People can be rather selective about what they believe or decide applies to them...... as in * I'm able to decide that this law needn't apply to ME , but I'm pleased that it applies to others. I am guilty of being selective in such a way. agirl I really just prefer to be with someone who wants the same things that I do-and have some mutual trust. And I'd still prefer to keep things on the up and up-even if it means relocating to do that. A sense of security is worth it. Hello Caretakr, I can understand your ideas there. I haven't always kept to the law* from the time I was a child.........I have few qualms about that at all. It's something that I have a healthy appreciation of but not something that I live by in a pedantic fashion. The law is extremely useful a lot of the time and an ASS some of the time. I quietly mix and match what suits me....lol agirl Well,when they pass a law against breathing, I will be tempted to pick up my Remington 700 and indulge in a bit of target practice-I'll stick to the straight and narrow until that day.[;)] Hello again Caretakr, I'm smiling here........The straight and narrow hasn't ever been my path, so maybe I just find it as thorny as you find my twisted one...lol Regards, agirl

Caretakr -> RE: ...So long as it is legal (7/4/2006 8:33:02 AM)
Let me just put it this way. I like my dynamic SO much, that I can't concieve of threatening it with silly things like frivolous laws. So I adapt it to work around them instead.

MistressOfGa -> RE: ...So long as it is legal (7/4/2006 8:34:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MHOO314 If I may also add that as long as it is sanctioned by the ruling power for the good of the "moral majority", then it is legal---take a look a Rome and Greece centuries ago---Japan and China not too long ago--and our own country in regards to what was the best benefit of society. This is a very good point. When I drive in Atlanta, I often find myself driving 85 to 90 mph just to keep up with traffic. Am I breaking a law? I should think that if I am only doing 55 which is the posted speed limit there, and all around me cars are going 90 mph, I am endangering myself and those drivers around me. I suspect that if the cops pull anyone over, it would be me, for failing to keep up with the traffic. I am probably breaking the speed limit law, but they would opt to give me a ticket for reckless endangerment. This is my opinion. Not fact.

daddysprop247 -> RE: ...So long as it is legal (7/4/2006 9:23:29 AM)
legality doesn't play a part in what my Master and i do or don't do. not counting the many trivial laws against various sex acts, there are more than a few things that we have engaged in over the years that are very much outside the law, and i'm sure there will be many more in the future. things we've done in public, things involving prostitution, things involving captivity, etc...the list is long. we just live our lives staying true to who we are, and of course, when it comes to the riskier (in the legal sense) things, he is a bit more cautious. but as the law doesn't accept our relationship in the first place, why should we allow it to rule our lives??

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: ...So long as it is legal (7/4/2006 9:34:52 AM)
I feel sad that people base what they consider right or wrong or ok or not ok to do simply based on a list of rules they are given externally. This includes religious laws as well as governmental laws. I choose what I choose to do based on my own sense of right and wrong and what I feel is best and true for myself. While consequences for breaking laws plays a part on how I ACT upon those senses of right and wrong, it does not define them in itself. Drinking alcohol was illegal in the US for awhile too, didn't really stop many people. So when people say they "won't do something BECAUSE it's illegal" or that something is wrong BECAUSE it's illegal, I just know they haven't actually thought about the situation for themselves and are just going along with whatever lists they have been given.

agirl -> RE: ...So long as it is legal (7/4/2006 10:56:15 AM)
Although I don't have a vast bank of social aquaintances, currently, the very decent people I have in my life.... smuggle, lie, cheat and break the laws of their country of abode and also would be castigated for their choices by some of the ethical opinions expressed here. They have chosen to do so. They are still decent people, in my opinion. I couldn't align myself with many of the angry and righteous expressions here, because there are just TOO many vagaries to take into account. Religious law means little to nothing to me and I won't ever find it easy to overcome my feelings regarding it in the governing of societies. Some of civil law, falls into the same category. I have a greater acceptance and understanding of culteral differences than ones based on religion(or to be more exact, faith). I can undertand the sodomizing of younger boys in the fagging system of the public school system in the UK as part of the relationships involved, all the while knowing that I don't wish MY male sproglings to undergo it. agirl

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