Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Manuel Ramos should die a horrible death


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Manuel Ramos should die a horrible death Page: <<   < prev  1 [2]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Manuel Ramos should die a horrible death - 12/8/2013 10:32:08 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		I have to disagree, Butch. These are people who have taken an oath to protect and serve, are empowered with badges and authority in order to do that, and they should be held to a higher standard when they abuse the power they are entrusted with.

Sometimes cops need to get physical. I get that. It's a part of the job, and there is a little bit of benefit of the doubt that may need to be granted to them on it.

When we leave that realm, as we so clearly have here, then I think committing such acts under the color of authority needs to carry additional penalties.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Manuel Ramos should die a horrible death - 12/8/2013 11:25:11 AM   
EdBowie


Posts: 875
Joined: 8/11/2013
Status: offline 		Ahhh... the Alice in Wonderland approach to rational adult discourse....  just make up the meanings of words with no regard to logic, and wrap them in irrational notions like US Supreme Court rulings that 'vary from state to state'.

And just trivialize what goes on in real police states like South and Central American death squads and the various secret police around the world, by pretending that what goes on against the constitution in the US (and openly in your country), as being exactly the same thing, with capital letters.

Yeah, great way to find a solution... by stringing together as many logical fallacies as possible to obscure the issues.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

the OP asked for peoples thoughts, as I said, I gave mine.. I don't give a dam about the terminology (which can vary state to state).. its a violation of peoples rights & further evidence of the Police State the US has become.. enjoy..


< Message edited by EdBowie -- 12/8/2013 11:34:28 AM >

_____________________________

Reading for understanding, instead of for argumentation, has its advantages.

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Manuel Ramos should die a horrible death - 12/8/2013 12:00:57 PM   
EdBowie


Posts: 875
Joined: 8/11/2013
Status: offline 		There are 2 factors already in place... the severity of a crime is  increased by statute if the *victim* of a violent crime is an officer, and increased if an officer does something wrong using their job as leverage - 'under color of authority'... shaking someone down for example.

The nexus of those is not the officer, but the job.

When an officer robs a bank, or plans to murder their spouse, they aren't considered to be operating within the boundaries of the job... they are 'off the chain' so to speak.

It's these cases of police brutality amounting to a felony that blur the lines. Nobody should be dead or comatose at the end of an encounter such as this one. 

I can see why some people feel that extra punishment is due.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Amazing how isolated incidents...most likely lower than in the general population...bring out the hang-um high bunch. To me they should be treated as any accused and if convicted receive the same sentence.
They do not deserve a lighter OR more stringent treatment. Their profession should make no difference in sentencing. It is the person being prosecuted for a crime not the profession of law enforcement.

Butch


_____________________________

Reading for understanding, instead of for argumentation, has its advantages.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Manuel Ramos should die a horrible death - 12/8/2013 12:17:20 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline 		the OP asked for peoples thoughts on what these cops did, the OP did not ask for solutions nor did I claim I had any (solutions are up to Americans when they finally have had enough to do something real about it)..

Lets see.. NSA spying, secret FISA courts, secret warrants, what these goon cops did (and other cops doing illegal body cavity searches, various other incidents I already pointed out), the Patriot Act, unlimited detention with no charges or legal representation & no phone call to your family and held for however long they want, forfeiture of cash & assets with no charges, TSA stopping drivers in certain states (& others in the future) and asking them for their "papers"/citizenship, yup.. if it looks & acts like a Police State it is a Police State!.. and I am not alone in that opinion..

http://fresnocriminaldefense.com/police-state/the-very-definition-of-a-police-state/

quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

Ahhh... the Alice in Wonderland approach to rational adult discourse....  just make up the meanings of words with no regard to logic, and wrap them in irrational notions like US Supreme Court rulings that 'vary from state to state'.

And just trivialize what goes on in real police states like South and Central American death squads and the various secret police around the world, by pretending that what goes on against the constitution in the US (and openly in your country), as being exactly the same thing, with capital letters.

Yeah, great way to find a solution... by stringing together as many logical fallacies as possible to obscure the issues.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

the OP asked for peoples thoughts, as I said, I gave mine.. I don't give a dam about the terminology (which can vary state to state).. its a violation of peoples rights & further evidence of the Police State the US has become.. enjoy..




_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to EdBowie)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Manuel Ramos should die a horrible death - 12/8/2013 1:52:47 PM   
EdBowie


Posts: 875
Joined: 8/11/2013
Status: offline 		The very things that your country's cops carry out without any sanctions, because it is the law of the land that your cops can stop and harass for any reason, or no reason...  are the very things that the US Supreme Court has forbidden in the US, and that cities have to pay out millions in lawsuits when they are caught.

For your society, they are endorsed as OK as long as it's against the indigenous peoples etc.  The sort of stuff that the US fights to move away from is still business as usual for you.  

I've looked back at your posts, and I see that many people have repeatedly explained the basic concepts of US law to you, including at least one attorney, and you persist in pretending to not know the basics, and make up these fake definitions over and over.

Now that you've sunk to dismissing and trivializing the mass atrocities carried out in real police states, you've pretty much let the mask drop, and won't be getting any more play out of me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

the OP asked for peoples thoughts on what these cops did, the OP did not ask for solutions nor did I claim I had any (solutions are up to Americans when they finally have had enough to do something real about it)..

Lets see.. NSA spying, secret FISA courts, secret warrants, what these goon cops did (and other cops doing illegal body cavity searches, various other incidents I already pointed out), the Patriot Act, unlimited detention with no charges or legal representation & no phone call to your family and held for however long they want, forfeiture of cash & assets with no charges, TSA stopping drivers in certain states (& others in the future) and asking them for their "papers"/citizenship, yup.. if it looks & acts like a Police State it is a Police State!.. and I am not alone in that opinion..

http://fresnocriminaldefense.com/police-state/the-very-definition-of-a-police-state/

quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

Ahhh... the Alice in Wonderland approach to rational adult discourse....  just make up the meanings of words with no regard to logic, and wrap them in irrational notions like US Supreme Court rulings that 'vary from state to state'.

And just trivialize what goes on in real police states like South and Central American death squads and the various secret police around the world, by pretending that what goes on against the constitution in the US (and openly in your country), as being exactly the same thing, with capital letters.

Yeah, great way to find a solution... by stringing together as many logical fallacies as possible to obscure the issues.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

the OP asked for peoples thoughts, as I said, I gave mine.. I don't give a dam about the terminology (which can vary state to state).. its a violation of peoples rights & further evidence of the Police State the US has become.. enjoy..





_____________________________

Reading for understanding, instead of for argumentation, has its advantages.

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Manuel Ramos should die a horrible death - 12/8/2013 6:57:05 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

I have to disagree, Butch. These are people who have taken an oath to protect and serve, are empowered with badges and authority in order to do that, and they should be held to a higher standard when they abuse the power they are entrusted with.


I do understand what both you and Ed are saying and I don't think we are really saying different things. If the standard is set with their employment, and it should be, then when they break that standard they should be punished accordingly. But it should not be because they are police officers but only because they broke the law.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Manuel Ramos should die a horrible death - 12/8/2013 8:09:47 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
But it should not be because they are police officers but only because they broke the law.




No. We deal with the crime they committed, and we carry it above and beyond in how they are punished because they have betrayed their oath and abused the power entrusted to them. That in itself is an additional crime, or a special circumstance.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Manuel Ramos should die a horrible death - 12/8/2013 8:14:03 PM   
EdBowie


Posts: 875
Joined: 8/11/2013
Status: offline 		Like hate crimes? 

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

No. We deal with the crime they committed, and we carry it above and beyond in how they are punished because they have betrayed their oath and abused the power entrusted to them. That in itself is an additional crime, or a special circumstance.


_____________________________

Reading for understanding, instead of for argumentation, has its advantages.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Manuel Ramos should die a horrible death - 12/8/2013 8:22:27 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

Like hate crimes? 



Not the example I'd have gone with, since I disagree with the whole concept of those, but yeah.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to EdBowie)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Manuel Ramos should die a horrible death - 12/8/2013 8:55:00 PM   
EdBowie


Posts: 875
Joined: 8/11/2013
Status: offline 		It is one of those situations, where the answers don't line up neatly.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

Like hate crimes? 



Not the example I'd have gone with, since I disagree with the whole concept of those, but yeah.


_____________________________

Reading for understanding, instead of for argumentation, has its advantages.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Manuel Ramos should die a horrible death - 12/8/2013 9:04:51 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

It is one of those situations, where the answers don't line up neatly.



More a case of apples and oranges. Hate crimes involve the the thoughts and beliefs someone holds, while the other is related to a specific role played in society by the perpetrator.

Both would be examples of a special circumstance that enhances the penalty for a crime, but the analogy breaks beyond that.



_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to EdBowie)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Manuel Ramos should die a horrible death - 12/8/2013 11:30:19 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline 		I hate that police get free donuts
I hate that police can confiscate your phone if you film them.

I'm all in favor of law and order.. but the state and our statist (typically dem) masters have gotten out of hand.

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Manuel Ramos should die a horrible death - 1/14/2014 11:31:42 PM   
SadistDave


Posts: 801
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		Manuel Ramos - Not Guilty
Jay Cicnelli - Not Guilty
Joseph Wolfe - Charges Dropped

-SD-

_____________________________

To whom it may concern: Just because someone is in a position of authority they do not get to make up their own facts. In spite of what some people here (who shall remain nameless) want to claim, someone over the age of 18 is NOT a fucking minor!

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Manuel Ramos should die a horrible death - 1/15/2014 9:43:52 AM   
EdBowie


Posts: 875
Joined: 8/11/2013
Status: offline 		So once again, the internet jury fails to match the actual one...


quote:

ORIGINAL: SadistDave

Manuel Ramos - Not Guilty
Jay Cicnelli - Not Guilty
Joseph Wolfe - Charges Dropped

-SD-



_____________________________

Reading for understanding, instead of for argumentation, has its advantages.

(in reply to SadistDave)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Manuel Ramos should die a horrible death - 1/15/2014 6:47:56 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

I hate that cops get any special treatment.

And I agree with you.


Now here (with obvious exception) I disagree....

Kill a cop....9 times the penalty.

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Manuel Ramos should die a horrible death - 1/15/2014 9:04:15 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

So once again, the internet jury fails to match the actual one...


quote:

ORIGINAL: SadistDave

Manuel Ramos - Not Guilty
Jay Cicnelli - Not Guilty
Joseph Wolfe - Charges Dropped

-SD-



Happens a lot doesn't it?
I would like to know what this jury knew that we don't.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to EdBowie)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Manuel Ramos should die a horrible death - 1/15/2014 9:32:19 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
I would like to know what this jury knew that we don't.



That they live in Orange County.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Manuel Ramos should die a horrible death - 1/15/2014 10:02:54 PM   
EdBowie


Posts: 875
Joined: 8/11/2013
Status: offline 		Too easy, too flippant and unsatisfactory.

That surveillance video is very hard to watch, knowing that a real human being's life is ebbing away in front of the camera.
The first part is indefensible, the face smashing is totally out of policy, and even with a defense attorney doing a play by play, you have to wonder what real information caused the jury to override their emotions, much less the evidence.






quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
I would like to know what this jury knew that we don't.



That they live in Orange County.



_____________________________

Reading for understanding, instead of for argumentation, has its advantages.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Manuel Ramos should die a horrible death - 1/15/2014 10:06:06 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

Too easy, too flippant and unsatisfactory.




Not for people familiar with Orange County.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to EdBowie)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Manuel Ramos should die a horrible death - 1/16/2014 12:53:21 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Yeah but the lawyers in this country think ***everything*** should involve some type of "TRIAL" or something!
It's like an old Micky Rooney movie; "Hey! Let's have a show!"
They even import pirates from Somalia (*and their parents*) to the U.S. for a,.....TRIAL instead of putting a fucking bullet into their heads at point of capture.
I wonder how much THAT trial and the expenses for that little fucking murderer's parents cost us, anyone know?
Seems Pantload is all for civil and "human rights" for people 8,000 miles away but not for you or me.

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 40
Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2]
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Manuel Ramos should die a horrible death Page: <<   < prev  1 [2]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.359