freedomdwarf1
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MariaB
!Freedomdwarf1
I’m not going to quote word for word again but I will say this; it is notoriously difficult to make overarching statements about Pagans because there are so many different offshoots. Pagans are nothing if not diverse.
Paganism, as a 'religion' is certainly diverse; but not more so than other religions.
For a true Pagan, it is not treated as, or refered to, as a religion.
We consider it more as a a 'way of life' rather than a type of religious doctrine like many others.
And yes, moon is correct when he says Pagan (as a word) is defined as a country-dwelling follower of a polytheistic religion.
But that definition came from 14th century middle-English and borrowed from the latin word 'paganus' because they had no other word to describe it or the lifestyle. Paganism has been a way of life at least 10 millenia before another religious group (namely, the catholics) invented a word for it. Much like BDSM is used today although the actual practice of it goes back centuries before the definitive word for it.
Modern-day definition seems to be used to describe the modern 'Pagan' word but the followers of it pay no heed to such restrictive and oblique obfuscations to describe their way of life. We leave that crap to those that want to spread such disengenuous bullshit.
quote:
ORIGINAL: MariaB
Wicca for example is a 20th century religion and Druidry was originally a cultural movement that gained recognition in the 19th century.
Then maybe you can explain why 'Wiccan' (another modern-day word for followers of witchcraft) is refered to in ReligionFacts website as early as 2000 BC??
From the website -
2000 BC
Babylon's Code of Hammurabi instructs, "If a man has laid a charge of witchcraft and has not justified it, he upon whom the witchcraft is laid shall go to the holy river; he shall plunge into the holy river and if the holy river overcome him, he who accused him shall take to himself his house."
2000 BC is a tad earlier than 19th century don'tcha think??
quote:
ORIGINAL: MariaB
The actual Druids though, go back to Julius Caesar (yep Rome) or at least that was the first documented mention of Druids.
And modern-day archeologists refer to the druids being responsible for stonehenge and other henges which are about 5,000 years old and older.
That's at least 3 millenia before Julius Caesar in Rome.
From Wiki: (stonehenge) "The surrounding circular earth bank and ditch, which constitute the earliest phase of the monument, have been dated to about 3100 BC"
This is also why modern Pagans go to the site twice every year and have done for eons.
quote:
ORIGINAL: MariaB
Whilst we may choose to ignore all Greek and Roman accounts of the ancient Celtic Druids, we have to accept that this documentation is all we have regarding their history.
And that would be history according to whom?? The romans and catholicism??
Jeeez. Gimma a break.
That is definitely RC propaganda because they couldn't deal with it except to ridicule it.
quote:
ORIGINAL: MariaB
Ancient accounts are ancient accounts. According to Julius Caesar, the Druids often organized mass sacrifices and made giant figures of twigs, filled them with victims and set them alight.
And that would be Wiccans, not Pagans.
quote:
ORIGINAL: MariaB
We have nothing else, no more documentation of their history, their existence even and so if we want to believe that these people existed many centuries ago, we need to read and perhaps accept the evidence. Without that we can paint whatever flowery fantasies we wish, but it won’t necessarily be truth.
There is plenty of documentary evidence about druids, what they did, and the origins of the Pagan 'religion' without resorting to references in other (and arguably very biased/derogatory) religious texts and bibles.
quote:
ORIGINAL: MariaB
The problem I see with the modern Pagans, the modern Druids is, they make claims about their own historical credentials without proof, whilst choosing to ignore what has been written throughout history.
We ignore it because it's biased and untrue and written by other people of differing religious backgrounds.
Most of the followers of Paganism use what has been handed-down by word of mouth, not some written text.
And the reason for that is based on the fact that most early Pagans were lowly country folk who couldn't read or write.
Thus, the diatribes of other religions are what people espouse these days as 'history'.
Archeology and other sciences have debunked most of that so-called 'history' and re-written what is known about early Pagans and druids.
quote:
ORIGINAL: MariaB
But here you go: http://www.livescience.com/25753-winter-solstice-celebrations.html The Roman feast of Saturnalia was a week-long winter solstice party that overturned social norms, including masters served slaves. Some of the customs, such as gift-giving, may have influenced Christmas traditions.
The roman feast of Saturnalia, like a lot of stuff encompassed within RC and other christian faiths, have been borrowed (or stolen) from the original Pagan festivals and ceremonies in an attempt to win Pagans over.
quote:
ORIGINAL: MariaB
And from a truly Pagan site: http://www.paganspath.com/magik/yule-history.htm
The Romans:
Most scholars suggest that the first influence of this winter festival began with Saturnalia in Rome. Saturnalia is the feast with which the Romans commemorated the dedication of the temple of the god Saturn. Saturn was a major Roman God and designated as the God of agriculture and harvest. Another link to the "wheel" concept.
Festivals (and evidence of such feasts) have been found within the constructs of stonehenge and they are millenia older than anything Roman.
That debunks your theory from that website!
From Wiki -
"Archaeological evidence found by the Stonehenge Riverside Project in 2008 indicates that Stonehenge could have been a burial ground from its earliest beginnings. The dating of cremated remains found on the site indicate that deposits contain human bone from as early as 3000 BC, when the ditch and bank were first dug. Such deposits continued at Stonehenge for at least another 500 years. The site is a place of religious significance and pilgrimage in Neo-Druidry."
See that?? ...from as early as 3000 BC!! Not Roman as you are claiming.
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RE: The war on christmas - 
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