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RE: Being wealthy is now a defense? - 12/12/2013 6:56:19 AM   
Marc2b


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Status: offline 		My first thought on reading the title of this thread was: Really, Ken? The wealthy getting away with shit is something new to you? Do you not know that the rich have gotten special treatment pretty much since the invention of money?

But upon reading the article I must admit I judge you unfairly. In modern western democracies the courts have at least gone through the pretense of justice by coming up with an excuse to let rich people get away with shit. This is the first time I have ever heard of a case where the defense was a blatant "he's a spoiled rich brat, so he's allowed to kill people."

Perhaps the courts should publish a list of excuses people can use to get away with shit. I'm not rich by any stretch of the imagination but parts of my childhood were less than idea - Hell, parts were tragic and even horrific - I'd like to know what that entitles me to get away with.

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RE: Being wealthy is now a defense? - 12/12/2013 8:41:16 AM   
vincentML


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Status: offline 		>Haven't I been told all my life that poor children are not responsible for their action because of the way they were raised? Why are poor little rich white boys not entitled to the same defense?<
Wasn't this issue settled long ago with a guilty verdict against Leopold and Loeb? And really, when has poverty or ghetto emasculation ever been a successful defense? I can't recall a case. You would be wiser to use the Twinkie defense.

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RE: Being wealthy is now a defense? - 12/12/2013 8:53:28 AM   
truckinslave


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quote:

And really, when has poverty or ghetto emasculation ever been a successful defense?


Well, let's suppose that I agree with your underlying assumption and answer... never.
But wealth wasn't used as a successful defense here either; presumably it was used successfully as a mitigating factor regarding sentencing; just as poverty is cited as a mitigating factor hundreds or thousands of times a day in the sentences of criminals across the country.



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RE: Being wealthy is now a defense? - 12/12/2013 9:00:48 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

And really, when has poverty or ghetto emasculation ever been a successful defense?


Well, let's suppose that I agree with your underlying assumption and answer... never.
But wealth wasn't used as a successful defense here either; presumably it was used successfully as a mitigating factor regarding sentencing; just as poverty is cited as a mitigating factor hundreds or thousands of times a day in the sentences of criminals across the country.



Well yes, you make a damn good point. So, why are the prison populations overloaded with the poor? Is it because there are so many more of the poor or is it because poverty as mitigation sucks? Honestly, I don't know. Wonder if there are any statistics on the success of poverty as a mitigating factor? Somehow I doubt it. Do you know?

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RE: Being wealthy is now a defense? - 12/12/2013 9:35:49 AM   
truckinslave


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quote:

So, why are the prison populations overloaded with the poor?


1. Poor people commit more crimes.
2. Poor people commit those crimes possessing fewer resources to avoid detection and arrest.
3. Poor people have less effective representation at trial.

It really needn't be complicated....

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1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

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RE: Being wealthy is now a defense? - 12/12/2013 10:03:41 AM   
mnottertail


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In its majestic equality, the law forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, beg in the streets and steal loaves of bread.  ~ Anatole France

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RE: Being wealthy is now a defense? - 12/12/2013 12:04:53 PM   
Wendel27


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Status: offline 		 ''So, why are the prison populations overloaded with the poor? Is it because there are so many more of the poor or is it because poverty as mitigation sucks?''

I'd suggest the reason is that being poor makes one more likely to commit certain types of crime. Burglary, street robbery, autocrime e.t.c. are not soley the preserve of the financially destitute...but they are by an order of magnitude more likely to indulge in such behaviour. That's because such crimes are usually aquisitve as opposed to pathological and so those with less, little or indeed nothing have much more to gain...and to a degree less to lose. The burglar who breaks into a house not to steal but to bask in the feeling of empowerment they receive from violating someone's privacy ''transcends'' economic considerations. Such people are no more likely to be poor than wealthy....but they are so much rarer.

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RE: Being wealthy is now a defense? - 12/12/2013 2:18:36 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

So, why are the prison populations overloaded with the poor?


1. Poor people commit more crimes.
2. Poor people commit those crimes possessing fewer resources to avoid detection and arrest.
3. Poor people have less effective representation at trial.

It really needn't be complicated....

Just a minute. We were talking about mitigation of sentences not the commission of crimes.

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RE: Being wealthy is now a defense? - 12/12/2013 2:19:38 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

and....

In its majestic equality, the law forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, beg in the streets and steal loaves of bread.  ~ Anatole France

The irony is delicious

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RE: Being wealthy is now a defense? - 12/12/2013 2:40:44 PM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

So, why are the prison populations overloaded with the poor?


quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave
1. Poor people commit more crimes.

That would be because the affluence bell-curve is not evenly shaped.
It is well skewed towards the less-affluent in pure numbers.
As a percentage, those numbers would probably be more equal; but as sheer numbers?? Definitely not.

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave
2. Poor people commit those crimes possessing fewer resources to avoid detection and arrest.

Sort of tied in with #1.

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave
3. Poor people have less effective representation at trial.

I think this, is the most likely cause of high prison occupation from the less affluent.
A fucking good lawyer can talk the pants off any jury and present a forgiving sob story.
Those less fortunate get the shit end of the stick and get convicted.

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave
It really needn't be complicated....

It isn't!

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RE: Being wealthy is now a defense? - 12/12/2013 9:09:54 PM   
popeye1250


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Status: offline 		They said on the news lastnight that this punk also injured 9 people.
Just a prediction here, someone is going to clip this kid or just "dissapear" him.

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RE: Being wealthy is now a defense? - 12/13/2013 2:00:34 AM   
BecomingV


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Status: offline 		My take on this is that negligent parenting was the defense. Also, we now know that teenagers do not have adult brains and do not perceive with adult capacity. We can wish they did all we want - they aren't adults! I agree with the treatment option, but I would say the same for anyone who does not have an adult brain.

As for the money aspect? Anyone ever heard of the "dream team"? In America, both medicine and justice are profit industries. It's a place where you had better amass some "Fk you" money.

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RE: Being wealthy is now a defense? - 12/13/2013 3:15:52 AM   
jlf1961


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Status: offline 		Well, Texas has made International News. The BBC is carrying the story.

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RE: Being wealthy is now a defense? - 12/13/2013 9:26:25 AM   
Missokyst


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Status: offline 		I wonder if poverty would entitle a defendant to be sentenced to endure a punishment like this?
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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

And really, when has poverty or ghetto emasculation ever been a successful defense?


Well, let's suppose that I agree with your underlying assumption and answer... never.
But wealth wasn't used as a successful defense here either; presumably it was used successfully as a mitigating factor regarding sentencing; just as poverty is cited as a mitigating factor hundreds or thousands of times a day in the sentences of criminals across the country.





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RE: Being wealthy is now a defense? - 12/13/2013 10:52:43 AM   
eulero83


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just a question to let me understand how it works, was him been acquitted or was him found guilty and sentenced to 10 years but for being a minor and other mitigations the sentence was suspended?

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RE: Being wealthy is now a defense? - 12/13/2013 10:58:39 AM   
lovethyself


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Status: offline 		Please tell me that isn't the treatment facility he's being sent to for killing 4 people?!

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RE: Being wealthy is now a defense? - 12/13/2013 11:03:38 AM   
thishereboi


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One of the things about this that is confusing me is the logic. Let's say for a minute that the attorney is right and the reason he did it is because his parents spoiled him and never taught him that there are consequences to his actions. How is letting him off with probation going to teach him any different. Sounds like all they are doing is treating him the same way his folks did.

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RE: Being wealthy is now a defense? - 12/13/2013 11:12:16 AM   
ResidentSadist


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Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Justice in America is blind if you have enough money.

True enough but has it ever been so blatant?


Do I really need to list them off? You want the amateur serial killers, skilled mass murders, expert military political crimes or just the cases where cash bought freedom for the average wealthy Joe who was an individual murderer?

Yes it has been this blatant before. On a scale of 1-10 blatant, this barely ranks a 5.

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RE: Being wealthy is now a defense? - 12/13/2013 11:28:44 AM   
jlf1961


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Justice in America is blind if you have enough money.

True enough but has it ever been so blatant?


Do I really need to list them off? You want the amateur serial killers, skilled mass murders, expert military political crimes or just the cases where cash bought freedom for the average wealthy Joe who was an individual murderer?

Yes it has been this blatant before. On a scale of 1-10 blatant, this barely ranks a 5.



Amen Brother ResidentSadist! Preach it at the top of your lungs....

Oh, and while you are at it, could you through a bit about sending the two of us cases of 150 year old scotch?

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RE: Being wealthy is now a defense? - 12/13/2013 12:34:24 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

FR

"Is now a defense?" What the hell would make anyone think that the wealthy getting special treatment in criminal cases, if the case ever gets presed at all, is some sort of new development??? Hell, they are probably more likely to be held to some accounting in the modern day than at any other time in history.

Oh. Wait. That's right. We are all supposed to talk about inequality now, because the liberals want to change the subject away from all the other shit they have been fucking up. Emails have gone out about, and we can always count on the O'bots and developmentally disabled libbies to obey their talking point emails...

Gotta side Rich on this one.

The kid -- and he IS a Kid -- is headed for treatment (at an expensive facility) and LONG probation. Do you know anyone on probation? These guys/gals are not your nice uncle/aunt.

The parents are not even allowed to take the kid home. I don't think anybody's is getting their way here.

I do think a judge is responsibly trying to sort out an awful mess without knee jerk reactions causing worse messes.

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