RE: Anotther school shooting.

RE: Anotther school shooting. (Full Version)

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BamaD -> RE: Anotther school shooting. (12/18/2013 7:57:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer - why would disciplining him do anything? Or ever in his life have done anything? I mean, do you honestly believe that if a kid were to be thwacked more frequently, say, that would somehow halt the developing of the kind of murderous hatred in a kid that is required to undertake a mass-shooting spree? How would that work, exactly? What are the psychological mechanisms you envisage being involved? There is so much more to it than a wack on the noggin or a good thrashing though there are times when a kid really needs that sort of thing. I worked with kids through out the 80's and 90's and there are way too many parents with young school age kids (4 and up) who are out of control to some degree or another and/or have a total lack of respect. There is shit I've seen kids do or say and get away with that would have got most of us in some kind of dutch or double dutch back in the day when I was that age. I believe that some kids, not all, need a good paddling now and then. For the ones who do need it you're not doing them any favors if you don't. There are so many other reasons too many kids are fucked up in the head, lack of discipline is only a small part of it. There are too many broken families, too many single parents, and too many households where both parents work full time. These situations leave kids without the parents around to get much of an idea what really goes on when they're not home or what kind of problems they might have. Kids need the attention of their parents especially/usually when they're old enough to be home alone without a baby sitter. Then there are all the video games, computers, devices and too much shit on TV that can tend to make parenting more impersonal. Add to that those kids who are bullied and you know how that can affect them negatively. Then there all these freakin drugs like Ritalin for the over active types. Many of those types need a parent around to direct their energy into something more productive, not turn them into lethargic couch potatoes. It's not all that simple. Simple minded, one sided child psychology isn't going to work. Parents are going to have to pay attention to their kids more to give them what ever it might be that's best. Good parenting is the answer. I'm not sure how to achieve this nationwide but each kid is different and some needs are very specific. Simple minded gun control won't stop school shootings either. It works fine in the UK and other places. It might work fine down under, time will tell but I'll guarantee it won't go over well in the US. I never said spanking alone would do the job. The key is better parenting one component of which is discipline.

Lucylastic -> RE: Anotther school shooting. (12/18/2013 8:06:03 PM)
hm and who is going to set the rules on parenting? Gonna force parents to be licensed.... who is gonna check on them, or do we ignore familial problems until one goes bad and gets caught killing people? then imprison the parents? Are kids gonna be removed from homes? if their parents turn out a baddun? Who is going to enforce it, what are the "rules" going to be? will this be done by private companies, or legally, how will it be constitutional or viable, whose definition are you going to use to define discipline?, and a spanking?, compared to a swat to a switch, paddle vs slipper, hand vs fist, verbal vs physical or mental? to ignore the access of guns as being a major issue, along with the other "issues" you might as well piss up some rope, in a hurricane. Sad

EdBowie -> RE: Anotther school shooting. (12/18/2013 8:20:31 PM)
That's got to be the clumsiest lie I've seen in a while, and I just got through with grade appeals and have seen some whoppers. You made the blanket equivalency between the whole range of possibilities covered by the word 'discipline, and 'a return to the days of child abuse'. There in no other interpretation that can be made by anyone who isn't barking at the moon insane, or else trivializing the victims of actual child abuse. You don't own the dictionary, you don't get to pass off your irrational ideas as monolithic definitions that are binding on the world. Discipline in raising a child consists of saying 'No', restricting access to non-essential items like TV, adding extra chores, limiting freedom to leave one's room, writing something that reflects on the undesirable behavior, and so on. Abuse is abuse. Not knowing that there is a difference is a very disturbing thought. You are so far wrong here, that no amount of spin, denial, lying, or name calling, is going to dig you out. quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 So here we have it. 1)Guns dont kill people, people kill people, guns just make it easier 2) An event 90 years ago killed more children so lets ignore the current problem 3) A paddling isnt child abuse....... Try telling a beaten child that 4) Its wrong to use English in its correct context, unless youre a Republican.

lovmuffin -> RE: Anotther school shooting. (12/18/2013 8:28:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer - why would disciplining him do anything? Or ever in his life have done anything? I mean, do you honestly believe that if a kid were to be thwacked more frequently, say, that would somehow halt the developing of the kind of murderous hatred in a kid that is required to undertake a mass-shooting spree? How would that work, exactly? What are the psychological mechanisms you envisage being involved? There is so much more to it than a wack on the noggin or a good thrashing though there are times when a kid really needs that sort of thing. I worked with kids through out the 80's and 90's and there are way too many parents with young school age kids (4 and up) who are out of control to some degree or another and/or have a total lack of respect. There is shit I've seen kids do or say and get away with that would have got most of us in some kind of dutch or double dutch back in the day when I was that age. I believe that some kids, not all, need a good paddling now and then. For the ones who do need it you're not doing them any favors if you don't. There are so many other reasons too many kids are fucked up in the head, lack of discipline is only a small part of it. There are too many broken families, too many single parents, and too many households where both parents work full time. These situations leave kids without the parents around to get much of an idea what really goes on when they're not home or what kind of problems they might have. Kids need the attention of their parents especially/usually when they're old enough to be home alone without a baby sitter. Then there are all the video games, computers, devices and too much shit on TV that can tend to make parenting more impersonal. Add to that those kids who are bullied and you know how that can affect them negatively. Then there all these freakin drugs like Ritalin for the over active types. Many of those types need a parent around to direct their energy into something more productive, not turn them into lethargic couch potatoes. It's not all that simple. Simple minded, one sided child psychology isn't going to work. Parents are going to have to pay attention to their kids more to give them what ever it might be that's best. Good parenting is the answer. I'm not sure how to achieve this nationwide but each kid is different and some needs are very specific. Simple minded gun control won't stop school shootings either. It works fine in the UK and other places. It might work fine down under, time will tell but I'll guarantee it won't go over well in the US. I never said spanking alone would do the job. The key is better parenting one component of which is discipline. I never said you did. I was just expanding on what Peon said and I basically did say "The key is better parenting one component of which is discipline." I'm not sure how we get to that but theoretically if I wave a magic wand and every adult with kids become better parents, it would go a long way toward curbing if not eliminate this school shooting trend. I'm sure you and I can agree that what ever the flavor of simplistic gun control of the day is, it's a stupid way to try and solve the problem. My main point is, way back in the day when Andy of Mayberry was still in its first run on TV and most homes had 2 parents including one who stayed at home, we weren't having this problem but we still had a crap load of guns including semi automatics.

BamaD -> RE: Anotther school shooting. (12/18/2013 8:33:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: EdBowie That's got to be the clumsiest lie I've seen in a while, and I just got through with grade appeals and have seen some whoppers. You made the blanket equivalency between the whole range of possibilities covered by the word 'discipline, and 'a return to the days of child abuse'. There in no other interpretation that can be made by anyone who isn't barking at the moon insane, or else trivializing the victims of actual child abuse. You don't own the dictionary, you don't get to pass off your irrational ideas as monolithic definitions that are binding on the world. Discipline in raising a child consists of saying 'No', restricting access to non-essential items like TV, adding extra chores, limiting freedom to leave one's room, writing something that reflects on the undesirable behavior, and so on. Abuse is abuse. Not knowing that there is a difference is a very disturbing thought. You are so far wrong here, that no amount of spin, denial, lying, or name calling, is going to dig you out. quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 So here we have it. 1)Guns dont kill people, people kill people, guns just make it easier 2) An event 90 years ago killed more children so lets ignore the current problem 3) A paddling isnt child abuse....... Try telling a beaten child that 4) Its wrong to use English in its correct context, unless youre a Republican. Thank you for understanding my meaning.

BamaD -> RE: Anotther school shooting. (12/18/2013 8:35:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer - why would disciplining him do anything? Or ever in his life have done anything? I mean, do you honestly believe that if a kid were to be thwacked more frequently, say, that would somehow halt the developing of the kind of murderous hatred in a kid that is required to undertake a mass-shooting spree? How would that work, exactly? What are the psychological mechanisms you envisage being involved? There is so much more to it than a wack on the noggin or a good thrashing though there are times when a kid really needs that sort of thing. I worked with kids through out the 80's and 90's and there are way too many parents with young school age kids (4 and up) who are out of control to some degree or another and/or have a total lack of respect. There is shit I've seen kids do or say and get away with that would have got most of us in some kind of dutch or double dutch back in the day when I was that age. I believe that some kids, not all, need a good paddling now and then. For the ones who do need it you're not doing them any favors if you don't. There are so many other reasons too many kids are fucked up in the head, lack of discipline is only a small part of it. There are too many broken families, too many single parents, and too many households where both parents work full time. These situations leave kids without the parents around to get much of an idea what really goes on when they're not home or what kind of problems they might have. Kids need the attention of their parents especially/usually when they're old enough to be home alone without a baby sitter. Then there are all the video games, computers, devices and too much shit on TV that can tend to make parenting more impersonal. Add to that those kids who are bullied and you know how that can affect them negatively. Then there all these freakin drugs like Ritalin for the over active types. Many of those types need a parent around to direct their energy into something more productive, not turn them into lethargic couch potatoes. It's not all that simple. Simple minded, one sided child psychology isn't going to work. Parents are going to have to pay attention to their kids more to give them what ever it might be that's best. Good parenting is the answer. I'm not sure how to achieve this nationwide but each kid is different and some needs are very specific. Simple minded gun control won't stop school shootings either. It works fine in the UK and other places. It might work fine down under, time will tell but I'll guarantee it won't go over well in the US. I never said spanking alone would do the job. The key is better parenting one component of which is discipline. I never said you did. I was just expanding on what Peon said and I basically did say "The key is better parenting one component of which is discipline." I'm not sure how we get to that but theoretically if I wave a magic wand and every adult with kids become better parents, it would go a long way toward curbing if not eliminate this school shooting trend. I'm sure you and I can agree that what ever the flavor of simplistic gun control of the day is, it's a stupid way to try and solve the problem. Way back in the day when Andy of Mayberry was still in its first run on TV and most homes had 2 parents including one who stayed at home, we weren't having this problem but we still had a crap load of guns including semi automatics. We are in total agreement.

EdBowie -> RE: Anotther school shooting. (12/18/2013 8:49:12 PM)
The recent upswing in spree killings in American schools represents something new, something different. In that context, it is well worth looking at all the factors discussing past incidents, since they all have been a major part of society for a long times.... modern guns, bombs, mental illness, suicide, societal pressures on teenagers/young adults, and the media... These have all been around in for a long time. So what has changed recently?. You've made it clear that you oppose any sort of rational analysis of the problem, but are you at least going to answer the question about how you would define gun control? quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux For the record - the largest body count at a school wasn't done by guns. Look it up. For the record....... You have picked the one rare event of a bombing, which took place some 90 years ago, yet are happy to overlook the many dozens of school shootings in the last 20 years alone. I cant fathom out why anyone would think posting such bollocks actually proves any point. Ah yes, 90 years ago - when kids were much too well-disciplined to go around shooting up their classmates at school.

BitYakin -> RE: Anotther school shooting. (12/18/2013 8:49:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer - why would disciplining him do anything? Or ever in his life have done anything? I mean, do you honestly believe that if a kid were to be thwacked more frequently, say, that would somehow halt the developing of the kind of murderous hatred in a kid that is required to undertake a mass-shooting spree? How would that work, exactly? What are the psychological mechanisms you envisage being involved? There is so much more to it than a wack on the noggin or a good thrashing though there are times when a kid really needs that sort of thing. I worked with kids through out the 80's and 90's and there are way too many parents with young school age kids (4 and up) who are out of control to some degree or another and/or have a total lack of respect. There is shit I've seen kids do or say and get away with that would have got most of us in some kind of dutch or double dutch back in the day when I was that age. I believe that some kids, not all, need a good paddling now and then. For the ones who do need it you're not doing them any favors if you don't. There are so many other reasons too many kids are fucked up in the head, lack of discipline is only a small part of it. There are too many broken families, too many single parents, and too many households where both parents work full time. These situations leave kids without the parents around to get much of an idea what really goes on when they're not home or what kind of problems they might have. Kids need the attention of their parents especially/usually when they're old enough to be home alone without a baby sitter. Then there are all the video games, computers, devices and too much shit on TV that can tend to make parenting more impersonal. Add to that those kids who are bullied and you know how that can affect them negatively. Then there all these freakin drugs like Ritalin for the over active types. Many of those types need a parent around to direct their energy into something more productive, not turn them into lethargic couch potatoes. It's not all that simple. Simple minded, one sided child psychology isn't going to work. Parents are going to have to pay attention to their kids more to give them what ever it might be that's best. Good parenting is the answer. I'm not sure how to achieve this nationwide but each kid is different and some needs are very specific. Simple minded gun control won't stop school shootings either. It works fine in the UK and other places. It might work fine down under, time will tell but I'll guarantee it won't go over well in the US. I never said spanking alone would do the job. The key is better parenting one component of which is discipline. I never said you did. I was just expanding on what Peon said and I basically did say "The key is better parenting one component of which is discipline." I'm not sure how we get to that but theoretically if I wave a magic wand and every adult with kids become better parents, it would go a long way toward curbing if not eliminate this school shooting trend. I'm sure you and I can agree that what ever the flavor of simplistic gun control of the day is, it's a stupid way to try and solve the problem. Way back in the day when Andy of Mayberry was still in its first run on TV and most homes had 2 parents including one who stayed at home, we weren't having this problem but we still had a crap load of guns including semi automatics. the fact is this criminalizing of discipline has been going on for DECADES, and if we hit the RESET button on it tommarrow it would take decades to UNDO itself it started with, paddling not being allowed in schools, then at home, then telling kids there is NO reward or punishment in the "afterlife" for their actions on earth... as I said, I am not a religious person, but I DO see the VALUE of instilling the FEAR OF GOD in children when they are small! but heyy you people keep on pretending that something that's been as common as dirt for centuries SUDEDENLY became the PROBLEM... my dad is a mechanic and he told me, if your car isn't running right, look at the LAST THING that's been changed and that's PROBABLY the problem what's changed? guns? availability of guns? NOOOO how kids are Raised? UMM YEAHHHH!!!

EdBowie -> RE: Anotther school shooting. (12/18/2013 8:59:35 PM)
You've gone just as far in the other direction. There is something seriously wrong when people think that 'discipline' and 'beating the crap out of a child' are synonymous. No one has criminalized teaching kids right from wrong, or from using negative consequences like those I listed above. What has been criminalized is leaving kids with broken arms, concussions, and hemorrhaging. quote: ORIGINAL: BitYakin the fact is this criminalizing of discipline has been going on for DECADES, and if we hit the RESET button on it tommarrow it would take decades to UNDO itself it started with, paddling not being allowed in schools, then at home, then telling kids there is NO reward or punishment in the "afterlife" for their actions on earth... as I said, I am not a religious person, but I DO see the VALUE of instilling the FEAR OF GOD in children when they are small! but heyy you people keep on pretending that something that's been as common as dirt for centuries SUDEDENLY became the PROBLEM... my dad is a mechanic and he told me, if your car isn't running right, look at the LAST THING that's been changed and that's PROBABLY the problem what's changed? guns? availability of guns? NOOOO how kids are Raised? UMM YEAHHHH!!!

BamaD -> RE: Anotther school shooting. (12/18/2013 9:25:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: EdBowie You've gone just as far in the other direction. There is something seriously wrong when people think that 'discipline' and 'beating the crap out of a child' are synonymous. No one has criminalized teaching kids right from wrong, or from using negative consequences like those I listed above. What has been criminalized is leaving kids with broken arms, concussions, and hemorrhaging. quote: ORIGINAL: BitYakin . the fact is this criminalizing of discipline has been going on for DECADES, and if we hit the RESET button on it tommarrow it would take decades to UNDO itself it started with, paddling not being allowed in schools, then at home, then telling kids there is NO reward or punishment in the "afterlife" for their actions on earth... as I said, I am not a religious person, but I DO see the VALUE of instilling the FEAR OF GOD in children when they are small! but heyy you people keep on pretending that something that's been as common as dirt for centuries SUDEDENLY became the PROBLEM... my dad is a mechanic and he told me, if your car isn't running right, look at the LAST THING that's been changed and that's PROBABLY the problem what's changed? guns? availability of guns? NOOOO how kids are Raised? UMM YEAHHHH!!! There are a number of cases in some parts of the country where people have been child abuse for giving their kid a pop in public when they were acting up.

Arturas -> RE: Anotther school shooting. (12/18/2013 9:35:59 PM)
quote: to ignore the access of guns as being a major issue, along with the other "issues" you might as well piss up some rope, in a hurricane. Sad What makes "access of guns" a major issue now when it was not twenty or thirty years ago? I actually could buy a semi-automatic gun easier in the sixties than I can now. So, I guess I don't understand how access has increased over the years and now has to be decreased when in fact just the opposite is true, access has decreased and probably should increase. If someone had a semi-automatic pistol in the theater that was shot up then likely many less people would have died that night. But, I'm really not making the argument for more guns since guns are not the problem or the answer either way. Society is sick. The answer is not to remove guns but to correct Society. A key pillar of Society is the family and a key pillar of the family is Parenting. Parenting skills and attitudes are bad so teach kids good parenting and we will have good parenting in a generation again. Parenting even by good parents is bad because both parents work to buy a bigger house and two cars or even put food on the table so bring back good paying jobs or build less expensive housing and use our cheaper energy resources to bring back good manufacturing jobs and grow cheaper food so only one parent need work (again) and better the education system so the parents who do work can pull down a better job and educate our kids that two cars in every garage is nice but that it requires both parents to work and teach them how bad that can be to the child. Another key pillar of Society is the schools. Years ago we had good parenting and safe schools without "resource officers" (translation: People with guns and badges) and we had discipline in the schools. Allow by law discipline and corporal discipline to be used in schools again because kids react positively to discipline and negatively to a lack of control over them. Another key pillar of Society is how we generally live. Live simply. Focus on what is truly important, our families, our children and happiness and none of which depend on living large. Case in point, the Kardashians, a train wreck representing living large in a fantasy that self-destructs almost quarterly like clockwork, just as our society does now. Arturas

subrob1967 -> RE: Anotther school shooting. (12/18/2013 9:39:23 PM)
FR... Just once I'd love to read an anti-gun progressive say... " Hey, you know what, these kids have no discipline, we've created monsters using political correctness, and we've completely boned them with our educational programs, and total mismanagement of the economy. Maybe we should stop blaming inanimate objects, and start blaming ourselves. Honesty, your side should try it once in a while.

Arturas -> RE: Anotther school shooting. (12/18/2013 9:47:49 PM)
How many private schools have been the victim of gun violence? If none or so few as to be statistically zero then why are they safe without resource officers and "too much access to military style weapons". Answer: Family participation in the schools (since they spend big bucks to put their children there) and discipline in the schools including paddling and extra homework and even stay after school and clean the gym showers kind of punishment. Families sacrifice to put children in private schools so they will learn and be safe and be disciplined. So, the way to fix public schools so they don't get shot up in a generation is to run them like private schools, well funded and free to discipline the children and free to teach them and free to fire bad teachers. Arturas.

BamaD -> RE: Anotther school shooting. (12/18/2013 9:51:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arturas How many private schools have been the victim of gun violence? If none or so few as to be statistically zero then why are they safe without resource officers and "too much access to military style weapons". Answer: Family participation in the schools (since they spend big bucks to put their children there) and discipline in the schools including paddling and extra homework and even stay after school and clean the gym showers kind of punishment. Families sacrifice to put children in private schools so they will learn and be safe and be disciplined. So, the way to fix public schools so they don't get shot up in a generation is to run them like private schools, well funded and free to discipline the children and free to teach them and free to fire bad teachers. Arturas. What a radical concept.

Arturas -> RE: Anotther school shooting. (12/18/2013 9:58:46 PM)
quote: There are a number of cases in some parts of the country where people have been child abuse for giving their kid a pop in public when they were acting up. This so true. Now I have to hide to spank my child. My wonderful Grandmother would have been locked up today for asking me to cut a "switch" from the "switch bush" and bring it to her so she can whip my little boy legs in shorts leaving a couple of red marks on my legs that stung like bee stings or worse but I love her for it because she did it to keep me in line and discipline never hurts children it instead makes them better and stronger and wiser and better in control of their lives and their children in turn and the cycle once started again will continue and in a single generation the wrong can be righted again. Arturas

BamaD -> RE: Anotther school shooting. (12/18/2013 10:16:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arturas quote: There are a number of cases in some parts of the country where people have been child abuse for giving their kid a pop in public when they were acting up. This so true. Now I have to hide to spank my child. My wonderful Grandmother would have been locked up today for asking me to cut a "switch" from the "switch bush" and bring it to her so she can whip my little boy legs in shorts leaving a couple of red marks on my legs that stung like bee stings or worse but I love her for it because she did it to keep me in line and discipline never hurts children it instead makes them better and stronger and wiser and better in control of their lives and their children in turn and the cycle once started again will continue and in a single generation the wrong can be righted again. Arturas My son once threatened to call DHR on me, I told him that if he did he would have to live with his grandmother. His response, I was only kidding daddy.

BamaD -> RE: Anotther school shooting. (12/18/2013 10:17:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arturas quote: There are a number of cases in some parts of the country where people have been child abuse for giving their kid a pop in public when they were acting up. This so true. Now I have to hide to spank my child. My wonderful Grandmother would have been locked up today for asking me to cut a "switch" from the "switch bush" and bring it to her so she can whip my little boy legs in shorts leaving a couple of red marks on my legs that stung like bee stings or worse but I love her for it because she did it to keep me in line and discipline never hurts children it instead makes them better and stronger and wiser and better in control of their lives and their children in turn and the cycle once started again will continue and in a single generation the wrong can be righted again. Arturas Kids need limits and structure, that is to often considered to be holding them down.

BitYakin -> RE: Anotther school shooting. (12/18/2013 10:37:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: EdBowie You've gone just as far in the other direction. There is something seriously wrong when people think that 'discipline' and 'beating the crap out of a child' are synonymous. No one has criminalized teaching kids right from wrong, or from using negative consequences like those I listed above. What has been criminalized is leaving kids with broken arms, concussions, and hemorrhaging. quote: ORIGINAL: BitYakin the fact is this criminalizing of discipline has been going on for DECADES, and if we hit the RESET button on it tommarrow it would take decades to UNDO itself it started with, paddling not being allowed in schools, then at home, then telling kids there is NO reward or punishment in the "afterlife" for their actions on earth... as I said, I am not a religious person, but I DO see the VALUE of instilling the FEAR OF GOD in children when they are small! but heyy you people keep on pretending that something that's been as common as dirt for centuries SUDEDENLY became the PROBLEM... my dad is a mechanic and he told me, if your car isn't running right, look at the LAST THING that's been changed and that's PROBABLY the problem what's changed? guns? availability of guns? NOOOO how kids are Raised? UMM YEAHHHH!!! SORRY no I DID NOT go as far in the other direction you list the MAJOR abuses that are criminalized, broken arms etc etc etc, but the FACT is you go to public place, mall or super market, and take off your belt and give a kid three sharps lashes across the ass, and I PROMISE you the POLICE will be called, and the kid Will be taken into custody and you WILL be arrested... AND even if you DO NOT go to jail, and the child is returned to you, there WILL BE a permanent record of it hell ONCE I had the police show up at my door for doing LESS to my DOG in public! ONE TIME my youngest boy went outside and played in the front yard without a coat on in the winter and child services showed up at my house the trouble with the DISCIPLINES you mentioned I have seen kids LAUGH AT, I myself would have LAUGHED AT as a kid! my youngest boy was very indpendant, you could have locked him in a closet with three lint balls and he would have HAPPILY stayed there ALL DAY! they had a reading program at his school, if you read like three or four books from some list you got a ticket to six flags, I asked him didn't he want to go to 6 flags, he said NAAAA thing is kids are, I don't want to say SMARTER, but MORE AWARE, they know those types of restrictions are only temporary. they KNOW you cannot watch them every minute, that in 15 minutes whatever it was will be forgotten!

MalcolmNathaniel -> RE: Anotther school shooting. (12/19/2013 1:50:59 AM)
I read up to page 9 and then got bored. Folks, we Americans are not going to convince the Brits that firearm ownership is a good idea. They aren't going to convince us that it's a bad idea. I've been down that road before. It has no end. The fact is that firearms are necessary but not for any of the reasons mentioned - although it was sort of hinted at. "But those were all dictators!" Yup, exactly. And the first thing that all dictators do is disarm the populace. The 20th century was a charnal house due to dictators disarming people. Every single attempt at genocide started out with that. Russia (Soviet Union), Germany, China, Armenia, Iraq, and let's not forget the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia. That's just a few and I haven't even touched Africa. Albert Einstein, after fleeing Germany, was convicted in abstentia for having illegal weapons. They found a bread-knife in his kitchen. Do you still want to talk to me about giving up my firearms to the "authorities?" You can parade dead kids around to your hearts content but you aren't even going to come close to anything I just mentioned. All of those were done by "The Officials" and "The Government." Those advocating gun control are poor students of history, at best. You want my gun? μολὼν λαβέ.

jlf1961 -> RE: Anotther school shooting. (12/19/2013 2:46:33 AM)
First of all, the school bombing 90 years ago was not a student but a 55 year old man who pulled that one, so it is irrelevant, if we are looking at students doing the killing. Second, these school shootings are happening in schools that are not in the inner cities, why? Answer, the schools in the inner cities have had increased security since the 80's when gang members started bringing gang wars into the schools. Third, when an incident involving a 7 year old bringing daddy's pistol to school, there is a problem, and it is not the fact that he brought the gun to school, it is the fact he was able to get to that gun in the first place. Now the Brits are telling us how to run our country, in the area of guns at least. Evidently they either have failed to remember the revolution or they are stuck in the "our way is a hell of a lot better than anyone else's" mentality. Specifically in the banning of guns for private ownership. So here a few questions that I have asked before, and no one on the anti gun side has even bothered to answer. 1) how did this kid get the gun in the first place? 2) In all the student killing students gun incidents, how did any of them get the guns? You want to solve the problem, answer those two questions.

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