RE: Anotther school shooting. (Full Version)

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Lucylastic -> RE: Anotther school shooting. (12/19/2013 12:06:21 PM)

my buttocks blush with point well taken.




freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Anotther school shooting. (12/19/2013 12:16:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wendel27

Obviously I can't comment too accurately without knowing the intricacies of your case Freedomdwarf. If your stepson was 17 and made a complaint to Social Services about a criminal matter, in this case assault it would be reported to the Police who are duty bound to investigate. There must have been some evidence to suggest something [regardless if guilty or innocent] if you were charged and taken to court rather than your case being NFA'd in Custody.

I don't really know much about it either to be honest.
From what I gather, he made a formal complaint that I'd threatened him with violence and he was still a minor under my charge.
What amazes me, is that SS didn't try to take him out of the home for causing a disturbance (even though he now has a criminal record for such and been arrested 4 times already for it), but their angle in the court was child abuse from me to him.
I didn't actually hit him (much as I would have liked to) and I had other witnesses that showed he was lying about being physically assulted.
But they tried their damnest to have me charged with it and possibly to have me removed from my own home for 'his' protection.
So it's not always removing the kids, sometimes they take the other avenue and attempt to remove one or more parents.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wendel27
Social Services will rarely be able to do anything quickly. Whatthey can do is report certain things to other Agencies who can take certain actions fast. I'm not condoning everything Social Services do but by and large they do a good job under tremendously difficult circumstances. Often they are placed in hideously dichotomous situations with no real damageless option available to them.

I quite agree. It's a thankless task.
But, they can, and sometimes do, launch into things too quickly without any evidence.
Yet at other times they seem to drag their feet until it's waay too late.
I think it depends where you live.
Some teams are sadly lacking, others are over-exuberant.




freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Anotther school shooting. (12/19/2013 12:20:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
So a teenager you didn't (technically) have custody of that point making a legal complaint about you is equivalent to a minor being seized from its parents and put in a care home how, exactly?

His mum and I are married and he was under a custody order to live with us because his father was deemed an irresponsible parent.
So yes, he was living here by the courts' command and under our jurisdiction.




Moonhead -> RE: Anotther school shooting. (12/19/2013 12:20:49 PM)

He'd be under his mum's custody not yours though.




Wendel27 -> RE: Anotther school shooting. (12/19/2013 12:26:56 PM)

''What amazes me, is that SS didn't try to take him out of the home for causing a disturbance '' 

Social Services wouldn't do that to a child. Wherever possible they will keep the family unit together. They certainly wouldn't remove a child for being unruly. If on the other hand there are allegations of abuse in one form or another by a parent/guardian to a child they will attempt to remove the offender while keeping the rest of the family intact. Only as a last resort would the child be taken into care. That usually happens when either both parents are abusive or the non abusive partner won't leave an offender.

If he made a formal threat that you'd threatened him with violence you'd most likely be facing an accusation of assault. That would have been passed onto the Police who would presumably either arrested you and then interviewed or, depending on the circumstances invited you for a voluntary interview. Domestic situations rarely leave that option available and so arrest would be more common. Depending on the outcome of the interview you'd either be charged, bailed, NFA'D or given a ticket for some form of disorder. If you went to court Freedom that means you were charged so presumably there must have been some evidence [regardless as to whther you were guilty or not]to suggest a likelyhood of guilt. In that case Social Services might have been giving evidence in your case but the driving force behind the prosecution would have been the Police and Court system.




Moonhead -> RE: Anotther school shooting. (12/19/2013 12:30:31 PM)

Apparently the three agencies are identical as they're all the man.
[;)]




lovmuffin -> RE: Anotther school shooting. (12/19/2013 1:22:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

That's what they said when rumours started flying about our gun controls after WW1.
They just enacted it into law with the flick of a pen.


You can flick your Bic all you want but you still don't get it. Gun bans won't work in the US. You seem to forget who came along during WWll and provided guns to help rearm you guys in case the shit came down if Hitler invaded. We had this discussion on another thread. Furthermore and I've said I'm in favor of this on that same thread.

ARM THE BRITISH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

quote:

ORIGINAL:
How much would you give to make sure everyone in your neighbourhood complied with the law??


Absolutely zero. We don't have a gun problem in my neighborhood and we do comply with the law, as is the same in the vast majority of neighborhoods across the country.
Why are you pickin on my neck of the woods ? Why can't we spend the $$$ on getting the guns out of the places where they are a problem ?

quote:

ORIGINAL:

All we ever hear is " you can't take my guns away" and the problem still exists to be repeated.


As long as they aren't my guns being taken away I'm good with taking them away from guys that need them taken away from. Of course that would mean more than just some simple minded feel good stupid ass one size fits all solution for doing that.




Apocalypso -> RE: Anotther school shooting. (12/19/2013 1:33:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin
You seem to forget who came along during WWll

Russia?




Lucylastic -> RE: Anotther school shooting. (12/19/2013 1:40:00 PM)

the british dont need arming...silly comment.
Its not just the brits




lovmuffin -> RE: Anotther school shooting. (12/19/2013 1:49:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Apocalypso


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin
You seem to forget who came along during WWll

Russia?


The call went out to American citizens for firearms donations to British citizens in fear of a Snotzi invasion who were previously stripped of their personal guns after WWl. I wasn't aware that the Russians donated any firearms to British citizens.




lovmuffin -> RE: Anotther school shooting. (12/19/2013 1:54:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

the british dont need arming...silly comment.
Its not just the brits


Ok, well, rearm the Aussies too!!!!! [8D] While we're at it we could go back in my time machine and arm all those millions of Africans who were victims of genocide.

And ya never know, the Brits needed to be rearmed once, why not tool them up again in case they need em for another occasion.




freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Anotther school shooting. (12/19/2013 1:59:46 PM)

In my case, Social Services brought the charge of assulting a minor under that stupid 2003 law.
And yes, if he did any damage to anything, I was liable for the cost of reparation because he was still placed under my charge, together with his mother; so I was legally responsible for him.

I would have thought, in normal circumstances, I'd be arrested and prosecuted by the the police and dragged into court after questioning from the police at an official interview for assult.
Wasn't the case here.
I was taken from home, without cuffs (coz I complied), but instead of a police cell I was dragged straight to the courts under police guard and under caution.
Social Services were applying to have me removed for assulting a minor in my charge under the Physical Punishment of Children Act 2003. It wasn't a general assult charge but something very specific pertaining to a minor specifically under this law.
I got the actual physical assult charge dropped but I got copped for threatening to apply a physical chastisement on a child under my care and jurisdiction (and under a court order).
The fact that step-son had already been arrested many times leading up to this incident, I was very nicely awarded a "Bound Over" caution suspended for two years just for the threat of violence.
Thats why I argued about stats being capped for 5 reports as being BS - the police brought up all of step-son's previous reports no matter how small they were.
Once he was 18 and no longer bound by the court order, I officially gave him written marching orders to leave my home. Yes, an eviction notice.

So no, you aren't actually allowed to physically chastise a child, either in your care or even if it's your own. You would need to convince a judge that it wasn't physical.
Whether it leaves any bruise or permanent mark didn't seem to come into it.

I also found a prelude to the 2003 law -
"On 11 September 2001, the Office of Law Reform published a
Consultation Paper entitled “Physical Punishment in the Home −
Thinking about the Issues, Looking at the Evidence”.
The aim of the Paper was to stimulate debate and elicit views with regard
to the physical punishment of children. The need for the debate was
prompted, in part, by the case of A -v- UK1, which came before the
European Court of Human Rights in 1998, and the follow up case of R-v-
H 2, which came before the Court of Appeal in England and Wales in
2001.
............
The case was taken to the European Court, which held that the UK had
contravened Article 3 of the ECHR by failing to provide A with adequate
protection from inhuman and degrading treatment.
"
Source: http://www.dfpni.gov.uk/punishmentofchildrenresponses.pdf
It would seem that Article 3 of the ECHR is the lynchpin of that law and it's implementation.




Lucylastic -> RE: Anotther school shooting. (12/19/2013 2:00:10 PM)

why not arm all those native tribes riding around the americas?




freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Anotther school shooting. (12/19/2013 2:07:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin
ARM THE BRITISH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh fuck off with that crap again!!

Who's fucking constitution did you base yours on that allowed you to have arms at all??
The BRITISH!!
Go poke that in your pipe and smoke it.


This is a thread on school shootings - not the long-gone world wars FFS.




lovmuffin -> RE: Anotther school shooting. (12/19/2013 2:09:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

why not arm all those native tribes riding around the americas?



Are you referring to the persecuted indigenous people in Central and South America ? Hell yes, arm those guys too.

ARM THE WORLD !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![8D]





lovmuffin -> RE: Anotther school shooting. (12/19/2013 2:15:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin
ARM THE BRITISH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh fuck off with that crap again!!

Who's fucking constitution did you base yours on that allowed you to have arms at all??
The BRITISH!!
Go poke that in your pipe and smoke it.


This is a thread on school shootings - not the long-gone world wars FFS.



Oh lighten up, you're the one who brought up British disarmament after WWl, "With the flick of a pen". I was simply illustrating the stupidity of that. Less than 2 decades later you needed all those guns ya gave up. Then ya go and do the same stupid ass shit all over again.




Lucylastic -> RE: Anotther school shooting. (12/19/2013 2:17:07 PM)

Mandatory mental health checks for all!!!!




lovmuffin -> RE: Anotther school shooting. (12/19/2013 2:34:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

Oh fuck off with that crap again!!

Who's fucking constitution did you base yours on that allowed you to have arms at all??
The BRITISH!!
Go poke that in your pipe and smoke it.







Hear ye hear ye, I now bow down to kiss your rosy red ass for giving us the ideas and logic behind the 2nd amendment. Thanks for that or should I thank the Brits for the fact that the first shots of the revolution were fired because the Redcoats tried to confiscate our guns. I'll have to think about it. I'm just glad the founding fathers had the wisdom to include it in our constitution. I'm happy to smoke that pipe.




Apocalypso -> RE: Anotther school shooting. (12/19/2013 2:36:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


ARM THE WORLD !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![8D]


That plan could have gone better in Afghanistan, no?




freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Anotther school shooting. (12/19/2013 2:45:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin
Oh lighten up, you're the one who brought up British disarmament after WWl, "With the flick of a pen". I was simply illustrating the stupidity of that. Less than 2 decades later you needed all those guns ya gave up. Then ya go and do the same stupid ass shit all over again.

Do you honestly think that a rag-tag bunch of gun owners would be any opposition to any remotely serious attack if it were to happen in the US??
You'd still need your official forces.
And if that opposition was your own military, you wouldn't stand a chance. Seriously, you wouldn't.

And the disarming of Joe Public had nothing whatsoever to do with WW2 and the lack of funds/guns/metal/ammo that we suffered.
Heck, if we all had those guns, they'd be recalled to melt down for other type of armaments needed.
And you know what?? Every man jack and his son would have willingly given up their arms for that war effort if they thought it gave any glimmer of hope to winning it.

And before you bleat on about it, it was a loan and you've been repaid in full and with interest.

And if there were another war that threatened to land on Brit soil, we'd probably still be in that same shit. No amount of home ownership of guns would save the country even if everyone owned several of them and bunkers full of ammo.

If you think that gun ownership will save the US from anything remotely serious, you (generic) are either very stupid or extremely naive; I'm not quite sure which.

Another point my OH just said...
Just because you have the right to bear arms, doesn't mean you have to bear arms.
It seems a lot of the US treat it as the latter whereas we over here choose the former.
We can bear arms just as you can. Most of us choose not to. We like it that way.




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