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RE: Anotther school shooting. - 12/15/2013 10:52:26 AM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

However, as Dr. Langman notes, there is no straight line from psychopathology, psychosis, or psychological traumatization to school shootings, which are extremely rare occurrences. Therefore, Dr. Langman has the same problem as all psychological profilers: false positives. There are hundreds of thousands of American adolescents that fit into Dr. Langman's categories who are not violent in the least way. Therefore, the explanatory power of his paradigm is nil.


Trying to establish the psychological profile of a future mass shooter is looking pretty damned futile, given that and the earlier links on this thread. Still, what could we expect? The tacit, but increasingly desperate, dictate is "Thou shalt find any reason, *any reason at all*, for the cause of mass shootings *other* than the prevalence and lack of control of guns."



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Profile   Post #: 141
RE: Anotther school shooting. - 12/15/2013 10:57:35 AM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin
Florida Speed Limits....

I must have been asleep when driving around FL.
Apart from the odd flash rain storm, most of the time I was in FL it was warm and sunny and bone dry.
And the journey to a friends house over in Orange County (from Jax) was mind-bogglingly s-l-o-w.
4 lanes each way and almost everyone was driving at 30-40mph on a nice warm sunny afternoon.
It wasn't busy and on an identical type road over here I'd be doing 70mph minimum.
The slowness was actually making me feel tired and sleepy and that ain't good for a driver - that's what causes accidents just as much as speeding does.

NC was different though.
The weather was more like the British weather - damp, cloudy, depressing, not a lot of sunshine.
Even so, Ed (our Vet friend) says he doesn't see any roads near him that allow more than 55mph and he himself has never in his life ever driven at more than 40mph.
I know that because the OH asked him this morning (UK time) when they were chatting on Yahoo since my earlier posts.


you can tell those stories as many times as you like, I just showed you the ACTUAL LAWS regarding it in the state you mentioned
I live in Missouri, st Louis population of the metro area around 3 million, except during rush hours EVERYONE drives around 65 MPH, any one doing 40 MPH during non rush hour times will get honked at and flipped off

I have been reading your posts, in one you state you are on benefits, without more info I assume you mean like social security or some form of disability. in another post you mention driving 120 MPH. it must be nice to be on "benefits" and be able to afford a car that can sustain 120 mph.

I find glaring holes in your posts when strung together to form a more clear picture overall

in one post you argue you can hunt even though you are NOT RICH, and IMPY you are kinda POOR, then in another post you tell us how you drive a car that can sustain 120 MPH, which would seem to be a prettttty expensive car. and considering the prive of gas in the uk, you must not be as POOR as you tried to make it sound

Actually, most cars here of more than 1000CC are able to sustain 120mph with ease.
And, if you had read the earlier post more carefully, I stated that when I was driving over that bridge, regularly, at 120mph+ I was returning home from work - so I was working at that time.
You aren't paying attention!
Even now, we have a KIA Cee'd CRD 3 and yes, even that diesel-powered car is more than capable of 120mph and that's a car provided by Motability. And yes, we are on disability benefits.

And yes, by most people's standards, these days we are poor and probably below the average US breadline.
But, yes, *IF* I wanted to go hunting and decided to get a license to do so, I can.
Your income has nothing whatsoever to do with the granting of a gun license.

You can spout the law as much as you like.
People we speak with regularly don't see what you obviously see and they also don't drive as fast you say everyone does. I certainly didn't see people driving that fast either - they were all driving like old grannies.
And yes, I was there - I lived there for 5 months with his family and *I* didn't notice any roads over 55mph while I was there.
I don't give a shit if they exist - I didn't notice them.
The same in Jax and Tampa, FL. I just didn't see any roads above 55mph.
Where I was in Tampa (actually, Newport Richey), most of the roads around there were 40mph.

(in reply to BitYakin)
Profile   Post #: 142
RE: Anotther school shooting. - 12/15/2013 11:14:01 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin
just as I am SURE in the UK its LEGAL to open carry a gun while out HUNTING

Actually it is illegal to open cary, or just carry, anywhere in the UK that isn't privately owned grounds.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin
FD make it sound like you'd be arrested ANYWHERE in the UK for open carry which is NOT TRUE out in the woods in the UK I am betting its perfectly legal to open carry, JUST LIKE IN THE USA!

No, it's illegal, anywhere that isn't private property. That means land that isn't available to public access.
To transport a weapon, it has to be locked, in a metal case, and away from the ammo for the gun.
You can't even shove it on the back seat or in the boot (trunk) and drive to your destination with it unlocked unless you stay completely on private property.
The moment you get onto a public road, unless it's securely locked away you're breaking the law.

And as I stated earlier with examples of being challenged for buying a leather belt (WTF?) and for being refused to buy alcolhol and cigs when you are of legal age to do so, sometimes spouting the law isn't enough sometimes.

(in reply to BitYakin)
Profile   Post #: 143
RE: Anotther school shooting. - 12/15/2013 11:14:06 AM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

The tacit, but increasingly desperate, dictate is "Thou shalt find any reason, *any reason at all*, for the cause of mass shootings *other* than the prevalence and lack of control of guns."




Except for the annoying fact that guns are actually less common in American homes today than they were earlier in the history of my country. My father will tell of taking an 11mm Mauser rifle to school for show and tell in the 3rd grade, back in the 1950's. When I was in high school, guns in the back window of pickup trucks in the parking lot were a normal part of the landscape, during hunting season.

Guns are an easy tool for the job, but they don't answer "why" in any way at all.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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Profile   Post #: 144
RE: Anotther school shooting. - 12/15/2013 11:16:39 AM   
BamaD


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Unlike all three, the firearm can kill at range. Quickly and accurately

As was the case in the 50's and 60's
The problem is still the lack of values.

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Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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Profile   Post #: 145
RE: Anotther school shooting. - 12/15/2013 11:18:38 AM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LittleForDaddy31

As someone who has actually had a gun held to her head, i can tell you the first thing going through my mind wasn't this guy's right to bear arms.

As a person with a similar experience my thoughts were on how to kill him.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to LittleForDaddy31)
Profile   Post #: 146
RE: Anotther school shooting. - 12/15/2013 11:22:08 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Unlike all three, the firearm can kill at range. Quickly and accurately

As was the case in the 50's and 60's
The problem is still the lack of values.

That is probably closer to the real truth than people would like to admit.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 147
RE: Anotther school shooting. - 12/15/2013 11:23:07 AM   
BamaD


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Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin
Florida Speed Limits....

I must have been asleep when driving around FL.
Apart from the odd flash rain storm, most of the time I was in FL it was warm and sunny and bone dry.
And the journey to a friends house over in Orange County (from Jax) was mind-bogglingly s-l-o-w.
4 lanes each way and almost everyone was driving at 30-40mph on a nice warm sunny afternoon.
It wasn't busy and on an identical type road over here I'd be doing 70mph minimum.
The slowness was actually making me feel tired and sleepy and that ain't good for a driver - that's what causes accidents just as much as speeding does.

NC was different though.
The weather was more like the British weather - damp, cloudy, depressing, not a lot of sunshine.
Even so, Ed (our Vet friend) says he doesn't see any roads near him that allow more than 55mph and he himself has never in his life ever driven at more than 40mph.
I know that because the OH asked him this morning (UK time) when they were chatting on Yahoo since my earlier posts.


Then he is "mistaken"

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 148
RE: Anotther school shooting. - 12/15/2013 11:25:00 AM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
how does money make a difference in kids? meaning, if a kid comes from a well to do family or a poor one, which one picks up a gun and shoots up his school? I don't recall any rich kid ever doing that (but I am sure if there has been then someone will certainly inform me of that).. rich parents divorce and a rich/upper class female also can have 3 kids with 3 different daddies (which she has gotten her chunk in a divorce from) & she/they can be jetting around the world leaving their kids to fend for themselves (emotionally).. so why don't rich kids shoot schools up?

Who mentioned anything about money??
And as it happens, the neighbour hasn't got a red cent from any of the fathers of her kids - not even maintenance/alimony.
And she doesn't go jet-setting around the world either (you can hardly do that on benefits) - she just leaves them to their own devices.

But guns aren't cheap. And those living on the breadline and below aren't likely to be able to afford to buy them and certainly not in any quantity or of the style used in a lot of the recent shootings.
So that suggests to me, that these kids either stole the weapons from middle/upper class families or where the weapons have originated from their own family members, they aren't on the breadline and below.

I mentioned money cuz to me it makes a difference.. is it that rich parents can send the kids to private school and they get more direction, motivation & discipline there? if that's the case then public schools are shite.. and just glorified babysitting service paid for by taxpayers that allows mommy and daddy to go out to toil for the 1%.. (those mommies & daddies that do work that is).. Turns out my public education in rural Canada was pretty good compared to what many here in the US seem to have gotten, people here can tell simply by talking to me for a short time.. I have decent grammar and can use words properly (spelling them properly too).. so maybe US schools do need to raise the bar (quite a bit)..

You got it, public schools are "shite" and have no discipline.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 149
RE: Anotther school shooting. - 12/15/2013 11:25:10 AM   
TheHeretic


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From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: LittleForDaddy31

As someone who has actually had a gun held to her head, i can tell you the first thing going through my mind wasn't this guy's right to bear arms.

As a person with a similar experience my thoughts were on how to kill him.


I've had that moment twice in my life. Sure fire way to not only piss me off at the time, but to make damn sure I carry a grudge about it.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 150
RE: Anotther school shooting. - 12/15/2013 11:28:47 AM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: igor2003


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin
actually, YES yes you can, just as legally as anyone in the US can do...

I promise you if you walked down ANY street in any city or town displaying a gun loaded or unloaded you'd be arrested IMMEADIATLY

That would be true of the UK and Oz, but obviously not in the US because carrying weapons, even loaded ones, is allowed in the US in pretty much all states.



Actually, you're both wrong. There are many states where open carry is permitted. And if you do a YouTube search you can find many instances where people that are open carrying are stopped by the police, asked why they are carrying, and then allowed to go on their way. In Idaho, where I live, unless a person is acting suspiciously while open carrying they probably won't even be stopped and questioned.

Here is a link to a map showing the breakdown of which states permit what when it comes to open carry. http://www.opencarry.org/?page_id=103 It looks like there are 18 states that either ban open carry, or only allow it with a permit.

Individual cities may have their own laws.

But either way, it is not the people that open carry, or that have permits for open carry or concealed carry, that actually cause the problems! As a rule, people that are "up to no good" are not going to draw attention to themselves by carrying openly, nor by applying for permits to carry. They want the fact that they are carrying a weapon (or weapons) to be unknown right up until the moment that they are ready to use the weapon.

Pointing to the number of people that carry legally, openly or concealed, as being a reason for more gun control is ludicrous since they aren't the ones causing the problems.

I should probably add that just because Idaho is an open carry state, it is NOT an every day occurrence to see someone that actually is openly carrying a weapon. I doubt that I actually see it within city limits more than 4 or 5 times a year, and more often than not it will be an off duty cop or a plain clothes detective rather than a common citizen. It is somewhat more common in rural communities where ranching is a common way of life, where the rancher may often have to kill, or at least scare away predatory animals.

In Alabama it is legal to carry open, but there is a catch.
If it disturbs anyone you can be charged with disturbing the peace even if you have done nothing but walk down the street.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to igor2003)
Profile   Post #: 151
RE: Anotther school shooting. - 12/15/2013 11:57:47 AM   
lovmuffin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: LittleForDaddy31

As someone who has actually had a gun held to her head, i can tell you the first thing going through my mind wasn't this guy's right to bear arms.

As a person with a similar experience my thoughts were on how to kill him.


I've had that moment twice in my life. Sure fire way to not only piss me off at the time, but to make damn sure I carry a grudge about it.


I've been there twice also. Once was a nasty free for all bar fight, and a guy who I had just demolished went out to grab his dinky little gun trying to get up the nerve to come in and shoot me. The other I was a witness to an armed robbery by the 3 stooges in the same bar. I had plenty of time to think about what I was going to do as one of them was working his way down the bar towards me robbing people individually of their valuables. They all left before he could get to me.

_____________________________

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Unknown

"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 152
RE: Anotther school shooting. - 12/15/2013 12:15:38 PM   
stef


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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

You can choose to believe me or not.
Just as I can choose not to believe your info as well.
All I know is what happened to me and my family.

Your relationship with the truth has proven to be tenuous, at best. In case anyone needs to be reminded...

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Profile   Post #: 153
RE: Anotther school shooting. - 12/15/2013 12:23:20 PM   
freedomdwarf1


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Just because you don't believe it doesn't dismiss it as untrue.

And I've said nothing here that's untrue either.

And just like any forum, you can choose what to believe or dismiss.
All I can say is - I know what happened and I've related it as best I can.

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Profile   Post #: 154
RE: Anotther school shooting. - 12/15/2013 12:38:51 PM   
EdBowie


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Only in a comic book world could there ever be as simplistic a solution as one single factor, especially an inanimate object.

Pointing out other contributing factors like suicide, the gun culture, the media etc., isn't 'refusing to blame guns', it is trying to figure out a way to prevent more occurrences.



quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

However, as Dr. Langman notes, there is no straight line from psychopathology, psychosis, or psychological traumatization to school shootings, which are extremely rare occurrences. Therefore, Dr. Langman has the same problem as all psychological profilers: false positives. There are hundreds of thousands of American adolescents that fit into Dr. Langman's categories who are not violent in the least way. Therefore, the explanatory power of his paradigm is nil.


Trying to establish the psychological profile of a future mass shooter is looking pretty damned futile, given that and the earlier links on this thread. Still, what could we expect? The tacit, but increasingly desperate, dictate is "Thou shalt find any reason, *any reason at all*, for the cause of mass shootings *other* than the prevalence and lack of control of guns."





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Reading for understanding, instead of for argumentation, has its advantages.

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Profile   Post #: 155
RE: Anotther school shooting. - 12/15/2013 12:46:34 PM   
Hillwilliam


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Joined: 8/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

Just because you don't believe it doesn't dismiss it as untrue.

And I've said nothing here that's untrue either.

And just like any forum, you can choose what to believe or dismiss.
All I can say is - I know what happened and I've related it as best I can.

Your claim in that thread was shown to be ballistically impossible.

Physics works the same in red states and blue states as well as across the pond.

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Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 156
RE: Anotther school shooting. - 12/15/2013 12:55:28 PM   
jlf1961


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First there is no way to accurately profile a possible mass shooter.

Second, Hill, physics does not work the same way in the UK. They just cant, I mean they drive on the wrong side of the road for chrissake!

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

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Profile   Post #: 157
RE: Anotther school shooting. - 12/15/2013 12:57:18 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie
Feel free to believe that 'you know better' than all the research cited in the references at the end of the Wiki article ( you did of course read them all before making such a grandiose pronouncement, didn't you?)... I'll reserve the right to not believe you, just as I don't believe your claims about speed limits in America, etc.

I was there as a passenger and as a driver I didn't notice any higher speed limits either.
That doesn't mean they don't exist, only that the car/truck owner (and local resident) didn't know of them and that I didn't see it - at least in the parts where we were driving around.

And as I said, Wiki isn't a gospel of truth either. So much so that it's inclusion into school and college citations will result in marks being deducted because it is considered an unreliable source for education.
I can only quote my own personal experience and the fact that the officers took lengthy statements, made arrests, and confined my step-son to the cells no less than 4 times in one year alone.

You can choose to believe me or not.
Just as I can choose not to believe your info as well.
All I know is what happened to me and my family.



You mean to expect us to believe that your friend had never heard of the interstate system?
This is only relevant because it brings your judgment in to question when you insist on something that is so blatantly inaccurate.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 12/15/2013 1:02:37 PM >


_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 158
RE: Anotther school shooting. - 12/15/2013 1:29:47 PM   
Wendel27


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  Im not prepared at the moment to get dragged into yet another circuular argument on thi sissue but in the interests of clarity.

With regards to crime statistics in the U.K. Crimes are recorded by the attending officer . Once an incident has been dealt with they call up the Officer Reported Crime line and update accordingly choosing which category the crime is placed in, if that is a crime has been committed. These reports are subject to daily review and if a supervisor feels an error in recording has been made it will be discussed with the officer along with their reasoning. If it is felt it is needed then the crime may change category to something more appropriate. For instance from Threats To Kill to Harassment. There is no mechanism to prevent certain victims having crimes recorded  multiple times. The only way that such information could be ''hidden''  is if a body took the data the Police provide and simply chooses to dismiss sections of it. The data is always recorded whether it is the first time or the twentieth someone is reporting being a victim.

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Profile   Post #: 159
RE: Anotther school shooting. - 12/15/2013 2:16:04 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

Only in a comic book world could there ever be as simplistic a solution as one single factor, especially an inanimate object.

Pointing out other contributing factors like suicide, the gun culture, the media etc., isn't 'refusing to blame guns', it is trying to figure out a way to prevent more occurrences.



That would be more convincing if there weren't actually real life countries that actually share a lot of those aspects of culture with the US, minus that of the US's gun freedom. And, despite the views of a few lunatics here, their inhabitants don't all live like slaves in a Stalinist system.

To be clear, though, are you suggesting that the solution might lie in changing a host of quite deeply entrenched aspects of culture *as well as* that of exerting much stiffer gun control?

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 160
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