Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

Utah Gay Marriage Thread


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> Utah Gay Marriage Thread Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Utah Gay Marriage Thread - 12/20/2013 3:18:46 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		Just in... It's a violation of the US Constitution to deny people the right to marry any person able to give lawful consent -- based on gender.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Utah Gay Marriage Thread - 12/20/2013 3:25:38 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		And let the shit storm commence.

Although I do think every gay couple in the country wanting to get married look into a nice wedding in downtown Salt Lake City, just for the lulz.

< Message edited by DomKen -- 12/20/2013 3:26:02 PM >

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Utah Gay Marriage Thread - 12/20/2013 3:26:32 PM   
EdBowie


Posts: 875
Joined: 8/11/2013
Status: offline 		I suspect there are some soiled undergarments in the Tabernacle tonight...

_____________________________

Reading for understanding, instead of for argumentation, has its advantages.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Utah Gay Marriage Thread - 12/20/2013 5:01:22 PM   
sloguy02246


Posts: 534
Joined: 11/5/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

I suspect there are some soiled undergarments in the Tabernacle tonight...


Talk about "magic" underpants!


(in reply to EdBowie)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Utah Gay Marriage Thread - 12/20/2013 6:07:24 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Just in... It's a violation of the US Constitution to deny people the right to marry any person able to give lawful consent -- based on gender.




I would be happier with this statement minus the last three words.

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Utah Gay Marriage Thread - 12/20/2013 6:29:45 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Just in... It's a violation of the US Constitution to deny people the right to marry any person able to give lawful consent -- based on gender.




Canada just legalized prostitution.


(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Utah Gay Marriage Thread - 12/20/2013 7:46:04 PM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline 		It does beg the question:

How much money has the government spent (local, states, and federal) in creating, maintaining and more importantly defending these sort of laws that are clearly unconstitutional? The funny part is that those laws got put on the books by the very same ideological group that often states it opposes wasteful government spending: conservatives!

As for the first question, that number is not fully known yet.

I had a chuckle at the lawyer's argument in defending this law:

"During a nearly four-hour hearing earlier this month in Salt Lake City, attorneys for the state argued that Utah's law promotes the state's interest in "responsible procreation" and the "optimal mode of child-rearing." They also asserted it's not the courts' role to determine how a state defines marriage, and that the U.S. Supreme Court's ruling last summer that struck down part of the Defense of Marriage Act doesn't give same-sex couples the universal right to marry. SOURCE

The amount of 'FAIL' on display here by those defending the law should be enough to have them disbarred for the rest of their lives. They really do not know why people get married. Or that marriage itself has a heavy load of legal components to it. Or that a careful review of the 14th amendment would show their case was doomed to failure. "...equal protection under the law..." is pretty much how the remaining DOMA-like laws in the remaining states will get undermined.





< Message edited by joether -- 12/20/2013 7:52:19 PM >

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Utah Gay Marriage Thread - 12/20/2013 8:44:40 PM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

It does beg the question:

How much money has the government spent (local, states, and federal) in creating, maintaining and more importantly defending these sort of laws that are clearly unconstitutional? The funny part is that those laws got put on the books by the very same ideological group that often states it opposes wasteful government spending: conservatives!



Just as amusing is this:

The same group of people - the right wingers - like to pose as 'defenders' of the Constitution. How much time and energy does this same group invest in attempting to subvert the Constitution by advocating for and proposing legislation that is unconstitutional, such as in this case?

One is tempted to conclude that their commitment to the Constitution is limited to those parts of it that suit their interests or compatible with their ideology. Which suggests that their posture as 'defenders' of the Constitution is merely hot air and rhetoric

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 12/20/2013 8:46:02 PM >

_____________________________



(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Utah Gay Marriage Thread - 12/20/2013 9:13:57 PM   
EdBowie


Posts: 875
Joined: 8/11/2013
Status: offline 		Not all along...

Canada's Supreme Court on Friday struck down key sections of a law that effectively criminalized prostitution by banning brothels and soliciting on the street, ruling that they endangered prostitutes.

http://news.yahoo.com/canada-39-high-court-strikes-down-curbs-prostitution-151955438.html;_ylt=AraI_bfxRfaZwnwn5zkp8uLQtDMD;_ylu=X3oDMTBsNWFkOTNlBGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwMyBHNlYwNzcg--



quote:

ORIGINAL: wanderingjew

quote:

Canada just legalized prostitution.

Prostitution has been legal in Canada all along.



_____________________________

Reading for understanding, instead of for argumentation, has its advantages.

(in reply to wanderingjew)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Utah Gay Marriage Thread - 12/20/2013 9:59:12 PM   
DaNewAgeViking


Posts: 1009
Joined: 4/29/2004
Status: offline 		So this makes...what? Sixteen, seventeen states where gay marriage is legal now? Pot legalization is gaining, too. And now prostitution... I'd say the Radical epoch is crumbling bit by bit. VBG!

(in reply to EdBowie)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Utah Gay Marriage Thread - 12/20/2013 11:20:16 PM   
EdBowie


Posts: 875
Joined: 8/11/2013
Status: offline 		The simple act of exchanging money for sex was not criminalized. Canada has had anti-prostitution laws prohibiting running a prostitution enterprise for decades.

You can honk about being a self appointed expert all you want, nobody has to fall for such bullshit games.


quote:

ORIGINAL: wanderingjew

quote:

Not all along...

Yes all along. You might want to make sure you know what you are talking about before you argue. The exchange of sex for money (or other material gain) has never been illegal in Canada.

P.S. I am from Canada, so am a somewhat familiar with the situation in Canada.



_____________________________

Reading for understanding, instead of for argumentation, has its advantages.

(in reply to wanderingjew)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Utah Gay Marriage Thread - 12/21/2013 5:24:10 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether


The amount of 'FAIL' on display here by those defending the law should be enough to have them disbarred for the rest of their lives.


This is as close to a judicial bitchslap as I've ever read:

"This argument is not persuasive"



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Utah Gay Marriage Thread - 12/21/2013 6:24:24 AM   
MsMJAY


Posts: 515
Joined: 3/17/2013
Status: offline 		The reason they cannot articulate their interest is because their sole reason for prohibiting same sex marriage is the one argument that they KNOW is unconstitutional. Its because of religion.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Utah Gay Marriage Thread - 12/21/2013 7:15:24 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		It's just that... I LOVE it when this stuff get to the 'judicial decision' stage. Where all the BULLSHIT we argue about gets nailed down on the stage, and a powerful microscope applied, and all the points, for or against, are tested in the crucible of the courtroom.

And then they write it up... And they get to write sentences like the one above... It sort of reaffirms to me that "The System Works". Sort of.

All your communication are still intercepted and archived without a warrant issued upon probable cause, of course..

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 12/21/2013 7:16:00 AM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to MsMJAY)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Utah Gay Marriage Thread - 12/21/2013 10:38:32 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Unless I am mistaken didn’t the Governor say this ruling went against the will of the people. This statement to me points out the basic issue in gay marriage and other conflicts concerning minority opinions and rights.

I believe this issue is worth another thread but I’ll address it here. Moving past all the rhetoric of a man and a woman blah blah blah… which should have the greater weight under our Constitution…will of the people or individual rights?

If it is will of the people then would not blacks most likely still be discriminated against? Or various religions be deemed illegal? Or interracial marriages be a felony?…Hell in some states guns would be completely illegal…etc

I think the answer is in the genius of our forefathers. They understood the tyranny of the majority and made sure individual rights were protected by the Constitution and administered by the courts as a balance. Yet… they left a path open for a super majority to change the Constitution at will but made it very difficult.

Although the interpretation of the Constitution by the courts often reflect prejudices of the day it is still the most practical way to guarantee that the will of the people, as a majority, does not discriminate against the individual in line with the Constitution.

So to me at least the Utah governor is wrong as is the law.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 12/21/2013 10:50:03 AM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Utah Gay Marriage Thread - 12/21/2013 12:22:34 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wanderingjew

quote:

Not all along...

Yes all along. You might want to make sure you know what you are talking about before you argue. The exchange of sex for money (or other material gain) has never been illegal in Canada.

P.S. I am from Canada, so am a somewhat familiar with the situation in Canada.


I am from the United States....so I know everything about laws in the U.S.

(Everything....because I'm from the U.S.)

(in reply to wanderingjew)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Utah Gay Marriage Thread - 12/21/2013 12:56:15 PM   
ThatDaveGuy69


Posts: 978
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Just in... It's a violation of the US Constitution to deny people the right to marry any person able to give lawful consent -- based on gender.




I would be happier with this statement minus the last three words.


So, what other types of marriage are you advocating? I don't want to guess - please tell us what you have in mind.

_____________________________

He said I'd blown a seal. I said fix the damn thing and leave my private life out of this!
What happens in the event horizon STAYS in the Event Horizon!
I have zero tolerance for Zero Tolerance

(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 17
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> Utah Gay Marriage Thread Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.078