In your expert opinion...

In your expert opinion... (Full Version)

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DsCouple23 -> In your expert opinion... (12/23/2013 10:58:25 AM)
I believe i have run into this before. Have you ever ran into the sub that didn't want to be a sub, but declared she was a sub? It seems like there was one in my past. But it could of been the fact i never met her face to face. She was just incapable of following direction (and i didn't assume really any control, prior to our scheduled/failed meeting). For instance: Her: I would love if you would send me a pic Me: Sure, but it is pic for pic, so if i send one , you send one. Her: OK :) Me: Pic Her: say please! Me: I can't be handled that way, i don't say please when it is unecessary, and in this case it isn't, it's pic for pic, i have delivered, now its your turn. Her: MMM I forgot how awesome you were, i'm not at home, i will send it tonight when i get home for u :) Elapsed a day or so, no pic. Then i called her out, then she said "say please" and i reffered her over to my last text lol. Seems as though this one (this happened a year ago btw, and i have a good memory), just didn't want to be sub... instead just wanted to screw around and waste time. Thoughts? Are there a lot of so called submissives that truly are not submissive, or is it me? Quite frankly after our interactions (there is much more history not disclosed from this particular one), i would say any dom who ever had her, could not control her unless face to face, and even then would have to modify her behaviour really really significantly to tame her. J

mnottertail -> RE: In your expert opinion... (12/23/2013 11:02:09 AM)
Yeah, there are submissives that are not submissive, there are submissives that are submissives, submissives that are brats.......(I hate brats, they get kicked to the curb)......... anyway, yeah.

ChatteParfaitt -> RE: In your expert opinion... (12/23/2013 11:07:13 AM)
On the basis of this conversation you decided she wasn't submissive? Alrighty then. I don't think you encountered a non sub, I think you encountered a non female who couldn't come up with a picture. Unicorns are rare, you might be better served by taking your time and getting to know people --- preferably in person.

DsCouple23 -> RE: In your expert opinion... (12/23/2013 11:10:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt On the basis of this conversation you decided she wasn't submissive? Alrighty then. I don't think you encountered a non sub, I think you encountered a non female who couldn't come up with a picture. Unicorns are rare, you might be better served by taking your time and getting to know people --- preferably in person. Chatte- She is cam verified many many times. We facetimed about 10x, talked for 3 months ... she was real. I'm not dumb enough to waste time on someone who isn't a female. I can detect that usually within first 5-10 days of talking. This was just one example of her, being very annoying/impossible/ really unreasonable.. perhaps classified as a complete brat. She has money as well... and although i have money too... that may be the reason for this attitude, as well as working in the Adult Industry.

RedMagic1 -> RE: In your expert opinion... (12/23/2013 11:15:45 AM)
It sounded to me as though she wanted an assurance that you were capable of incorporating her input into your style of dominance. There are some women who want a martinet, but it's pretty rare, and I think it often has to do with emotional masochism that is better handled by therapy than kink. Lots of women, sub or not, have had a bad physical experience with a man, and so they create tests, consciously or unconsciously, to ensure the next guy isn't an asshole in the bad way. As a rule of thumb, if a woman is submissive to a guy whose voice she has never heard, then she is either crazy, or a man. I would have said something like, "Pretty please, you pretty lady! :) But, before you send it, please understand that if we meet in real life and like each other, I will probably spank you for making me wait to see your photo." Then, if/when she sends it, she's making a decision that she probably wants to meet you. In case you care, I've met more than eight women here. Though I could be lying my ass off about that, because I'm not going to prove it.

AthenaSurrenders -> RE: In your expert opinion... (12/23/2013 11:18:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DsCouple23 Thoughts? Are there a lot of so called submissives that truly are not submissive, or is it me? Quite frankly after our interactions (there is much more history not disclosed from this particular one), i would say any dom who ever had her, could not control her unless face to face, and even then would have to modify her behaviour really really significantly to tame her. Yes there are people who identify as sub who just want to mess around, or get dates, or explore online. There's also a lot of people who might be sub according to their own definition, but not according to yours - no one is lying, but you don't meet each other's criteria. And lastly there might be people who really are subs, even by your definition, who flake out for some reason not disclosed to you. Now I consider myself a sub, but you couldn't control me online either, and certainly not when we were in the 'how you doing' phase of the relationship. Submission for me is not a default reaction to any person who says 'do this'. It's a conscious choice. I'm sure you would've thought that I wasn't a sub if you'd met me online before I was with my husband. You'd have been wrong; it would've been a case of me not feeling I owed you anything at that point. (For the record, I would have moved on the moment you made the speech about not saying please when it isn't necessary, so you'd never have found out whether I was submissive or not) That said, I think Chatte is right and it's most likely got nothing to do with this person being a sub or not, more likely you were talking to a man.

DsCouple23 -> RE: In your expert opinion... (12/23/2013 11:23:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RedMagic1 It sounded to me as though she wanted an assurance that you were capable of incorporating her input into your style of dominance. There are some women who want a martinet, but it's pretty rare, and I think it often has to do with emotional masochism that is better handled by therapy than kink. Lots of women, sub or not, have had a bad physical experience with a man, and so they create tests, consciously or unconsciously, to ensure the next guy isn't an asshole in the bad way. As a rule of thumb, if a woman is submissive to a guy whose voice she has never heard, then she is either crazy, or a man. I would have said something like, "Pretty please, you pretty lady! :) But, before you send it, please understand that if we meet in real life and like each other, I will probably spank you for making me wait to see your photo." Then, if/when she sends it, she's making a decision that she probably wants to meet you. In case you care, I've met more than eight women here. Though I could be lying my ass off about that, because I'm not going to prove it. RedMagic, are you mocking my 8 women? Also if you have 6k posts, and say that, what basis would i have to ask "prove it", i can only act on good faith and believe you. That's good for you, and makes me listen more to what you are saying. Thank you for responding in an informative intelligent way, i find that refreshing. I could get her to meet me, but only by acting unnatural. She is the type to ignore a text till later, and de-prioritize me. I might as well give you the full story because well... it's a hell of a story. Basically we talked for 3-5mo, facetimed a lot. I know her real name, she knows mine. I know a ton about her. She booked a plane ticket, and we were set to meet in Vegas for a weekend. The night prior i tell her "do not go out", and me, being the perceptive individual, i already felt as if she would defy me. And, voila .. she did, she went out, got drunk, kissed some other guy (or more who knows), and then that guy drove her home and got a DWI. She then lost her wallet with her ID, which she needed to board the flight (she sent me reciept of the flight, it was real), so basically as i am about to board the bus to Vegas, she is telling me this... lol. I suppose this at the time was a lesson on " you cant truly control one unless she wants to be, and from afar it's much more difficult to do so". People get courage when not confronted face to face. Essentially she commited suicide on the relationship and that was it, what is funny is i saw she just opened another profile. I won't name her, but ... it's just so comical to me... i truly feel sorry for the next dom's she deals with. IMO she needs to grow up. I feel that's what's necessary in this case. as well as only face to face domination.

ChatteParfaitt -> RE: In your expert opinion... (12/23/2013 11:27:21 AM)
In that case I don't understand your reaction. Attractive females in the adult entertainment industry learn how to manipulate men early on. They have to in order to make money. Just because a female knows how to use her looks to get her way doesn't mean she doesn't have sub tendencies. It seems you were in the getting to know stage, and I agree with Athena, before a dynamic is established, you had no expectation of obedience. It's not even clear to be that she was being disobedient, merely playful. It's almost certainly her knee jerk reaction to men asking for pics from her. You come across as someone who wants to force submission, 'submit to me or else' instead of understanding you need to inspire it. But that's just my take on limited info. Okay I just read the last post. You come across even more like someone who wants to force submission, and yeah she sounds immature at best. Not a great combo. BTW: Taking a bus to Vegas? You don't drive/own a car?

kalikshama -> RE: In your expert opinion... (12/23/2013 11:28:30 AM)
I'm not terribly submissive until I decide I want to submit to someone, which happens later than the picture exchanging stage. This would work on me: quote: "Pretty please, you pretty lady! :) But, before you send it, please understand that if we meet in real life and like each other, I will probably spank you for making me wait to see your photo." This would not: quote: Her: I would love if you would send me a pic Me: Sure, but it is pic for pic, so if i send one , you send one. Her: OK :) Me: Pic Her: say please! Me: I can't be handled that way, i don't say please when it is unecessary, and in this case it isn't, it's pic for pic, i have delivered, now its your turn. Her: MMM I forgot how awesome you were, i'm not at home, i will send it tonight when i get home for u :) She asked nicely, and you would have been better off responding in kind. She thought the please WAS necessary.

OsideGirl -> RE: In your expert opinion... (12/23/2013 11:29:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DsCouple23 Thoughts? Are there a lot of so called submissives that truly are not submissive, or is it me? Quite frankly after our interactions (there is much more history not disclosed from this particular one), i would say any dom who ever had her, could not control her unless face to face, and even then would have to modify her behaviour really really significantly to tame her. J My thought is that you cannot judge if someone is submissive by an email exchange.

DsCouple23 -> RE: In your expert opinion... (12/23/2013 11:30:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders quote: ORIGINAL: DsCouple23 Thoughts? Are there a lot of so called submissives that truly are not submissive, or is it me? Quite frankly after our interactions (there is much more history not disclosed from this particular one), i would say any dom who ever had her, could not control her unless face to face, and even then would have to modify her behaviour really really significantly to tame her. Yes there are people who identify as sub who just want to mess around, or get dates, or explore online. There's also a lot of people who might be sub according to their own definition, but not according to yours - no one is lying, but you don't meet each other's criteria. And lastly there might be people who really are subs, even by your definition, who flake out for some reason not disclosed to you. Now I consider myself a sub, but you couldn't control me online either, and certainly not when we were in the 'how you doing' phase of the relationship. Submission for me is not a default reaction to any person who says 'do this'. It's a conscious choice. I'm sure you would've thought that I wasn't a sub if you'd met me online before I was with my husband. You'd have been wrong; it would've been a case of me not feeling I owed you anything at that point. (For the record, I would have moved on the moment you made the speech about not saying please when it isn't necessary, so you'd never have found out whether I was submissive or not) That said, I think Chatte is right and it's most likely got nothing to do with this person being a sub or not, more likely you were talking to a man. Athena , you missed the part where i said she was cam verified about 10 x. We talked on the phone/facetimed for a good 20 plus hours. For sure 100% not a man not fake. She even sent me a pic of her ID.

RedMagic1 -> RE: In your expert opinion... (12/23/2013 11:30:43 AM)
I'm not mocking anyone. I was giving my "credentials," if you will. I've met a lot of kinky women online, so I've happy with a system I'm constructed for myself, though I doubt it would fit everyone's personality. So I'll say: if a face-to-face meeting takes more than two weeks to engineer from first email, it's never going anywhere. There are extremely rare exceptions to this, but for all the rest of us, meet fast, and see if there is chemistry in real life. Also, a good leadership tip is: don't give people opportunities to fail. Only give them opportunities to succeed.

ChatteParfaitt -> RE: In your expert opinion... (12/23/2013 11:33:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RedMagic1 Also, a good leadership tip is: don't give people opportunities to fail. Only give them opportunities to succeed. This is a good teaching and child raising technique as well.

AthenaSurrenders -> RE: In your expert opinion... (12/23/2013 11:33:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DsCouple23 Athena , you missed the part where i said she was cam verified about 10 x. We talked on the phone/facetimed for a good 20 plus hours. For sure 100% not a man not fake. She even sent me a pic of her ID. Yes, sorry, I did. I was typing when you posted. I stand by the rest of my post.

DsCouple23 -> RE: In your expert opinion... (12/23/2013 11:34:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt In that case I don't understand your reaction. Attractive females in the adult entertainment industry learn how to manipulate men early on. They have to in order to make money. Just because a female knows how to use her looks to get her way doesn't mean she doesn't have sub tendencies. It seems you were in the getting to know stage, and I agree with Athena, before a dynamic is established, you had no expectation of obedience. It's not even clear to be that she was being disobedient, merely playful. It's almost certainly her knee jerk reaction to men asking for pics from her. You come across as someone who wants to force submission, 'submit to me or else' instead of understanding you need to inspire it. But that's just my take on limited info. Okay I just read the last post. You come across even more like someone who wants to force submission, and yeah she sounds immature at best. Not a great combo. BTW: Taking a bus to Vegas? You don't drive/own a car? Chatte Chatte Chatte, I do own a car. It's easier to take a bus- it's 70 dollars for roundtrip from Los Angeles to LV and Back. In Vegas, you drink and have fun... because of this, having a car is not optimal, since we would of been club hopping... we take taxi's and private car's... no need for a car there. Flying would of taken 2 hours less. However was double the price... I'm smart with my money... and additional 2 hrs in the car is fine.. .in fact i had work to do anyway. Why pay when i can get the same thing for cheaper? Gas to Vegas in my own Mercedes = 75.00 Each way, plus wear and tear on the car. What i do makes sense... i follow logic and time management.

kalikshama -> RE: In your expert opinion... (12/23/2013 11:35:45 AM)
quote: I suppose this at the time was a lesson on " you cant truly control one unless she wants to be, and from afar it's much more difficult to do so". I see you're in Denver. Have you talked to DarkSteven about the local community there? Sure, only considering local people makes your pool of potentials much smaller, but you avoid so much time wasting. ETA - well, your profile says Denver, but above you say Los Angeles, so I'm confused.

crazyml -> RE: In your expert opinion... (12/23/2013 11:39:14 AM)
Sure, as others have said I'm sure there are plenty of gals who are interested in a little sub play, butnomore than that. In this case I'm guessing she wasn't that into you. That doesn't necessarily mean she's not sub, just that she's not sub to you. This isn't a judgement of your domliness, just your compatibility with this sub

DsCouple23 -> RE: In your expert opinion... (12/23/2013 11:41:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RedMagic1 I'm not mocking anyone. I was giving my "credentials," if you will. I've met a lot of kinky women online, so I've happy with a system I'm constructed for myself, though I doubt it would fit everyone's personality. So I'll say: if a face-to-face meeting takes more than two weeks to engineer from first email, it's never going anywhere. There are extremely rare exceptions to this, but for all the rest of us, meet fast, and see if there is chemistry in real life. Also, a good leadership tip is: don't give people opportunities to fail. Only give them opportunities to succeed. Couldn't agree more. This one as i said i cultivated for 4 months. Anyone i have ever met on here i have talked to bare minimum for 2 months. I for sure gave her a chance to succeed in this case... my real opinion is, she is just young and dumb... and just needs a few years more under her belt to truly give it a genuine go. She is a party girl for sure, and makes around 12-15k per mo... she is a handful. I have suspicion she was dishonest as well... just my instinct to go off of, but she did admit to kissing some other guy that night i told her not to go out... it's compounded with the fact she had no dad growing up and her mother just passed away. Lots of stuff going on in her chaotic life. I stood tall on a simple text only because i don't say please in real life for an unnecesary reason... i wanted to break her out of the mindset that i was like her "followers" online who just bend to everything she says... afterall i'm not the submissive one here. J

DsCouple23 -> RE: In your expert opinion... (12/23/2013 11:43:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: crazyml Sure, as others have said I'm sure there are plenty of gals who are interested in a little sub play, butnomore than that. In this case I'm guessing she wasn't that into you. That doesn't necessarily mean she's not sub, just that she's not sub to you. This isn't a judgement of your domliness, just your compatibility with this sub Perhaps. But to be honest, she reminded me a lot of my ex-gf, prior to embracing my Dom. Very hard to control, all about herself, and just flaky and dishonest. These qualities i have noticed are more common with women who are exceptionally beautiful and know it. Which.. unfortunately she was and is. She works about 20 hrs a week if that on Cam, and makes 5 figures every month or more... imagine the power a 20 yr old feels when she is able to do that. J

kalikshama -> RE: In your expert opinion... (12/23/2013 11:43:29 AM)
You can't control people with substance abuse problems via text, phone, email, or in person.

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