RE: I am quickly developing a problem with immigrants.

RE: I am quickly developing a problem with immigrants. (Full Version)

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tj444 -> RE: I am quickly developing a problem with immigrants. (12/31/2013 7:15:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri I have to wonder how these people got hired in the first place. If they can't communicate in the predominate ([8D]) language, how did they get through the interviews? they were breathing??? [8\|] Lets face it, with a wage of $7.50/hr they are looking for someone that will accept that wage and stick around for as long as possible to keep turnover as low as they can.. I also expect they might have an employee incentive to bring/refer new potential employees to open positions, and some of the managers likely are bilingual (to be able to solve problems in both languages & train/direct employees in both languages)..

DesideriScuri -> RE: I am quickly developing a problem with immigrants. (12/31/2013 8:44:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri I have to wonder how these people got hired in the first place. If they can't communicate in the predominate ([8D]) language, how did they get through the interviews? they were breathing??? [8\|] Lets face it, with a wage of $7.50/hr they are looking for someone that will accept that wage and stick around for as long as possible to keep turnover as low as they can.. I also expect they might have an employee incentive to bring/refer new potential employees to open positions, and some of the managers likely are bilingual (to be able to solve problems in both languages & train/direct employees in both languages).. That still doesn't solve the problem the employer is likely to have by hiring those who can't communicate effectively with the likely customer, though. An employer should be looking at that, too. Lack of ability to communicate effectively with the likely customer should prevent an employer from hiring a person who is likely to be required to effectively communicate with the likely customer, even if the manager is bilingual and has no problem communicating. Now, it's possible that jlf isn't the likely customer in that store, and that the cashier is quite adept at communicating with the likely customer.

mnottertail -> RE: I am quickly developing a problem with immigrants. (12/31/2013 8:45:47 AM)
They should, but the money says you send your helpdesk to India.

tj444 -> RE: I am quickly developing a problem with immigrants. (12/31/2013 9:28:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri I have to wonder how these people got hired in the first place. If they can't communicate in the predominate ([8D]) language, how did they get through the interviews? they were breathing??? [8\|] Lets face it, with a wage of $7.50/hr they are looking for someone that will accept that wage and stick around for as long as possible to keep turnover as low as they can.. I also expect they might have an employee incentive to bring/refer new potential employees to open positions, and some of the managers likely are bilingual (to be able to solve problems in both languages & train/direct employees in both languages).. That still doesn't solve the problem the employer is likely to have by hiring those who can't communicate effectively with the likely customer, though. An employer should be looking at that, too. Lack of ability to communicate effectively with the likely customer should prevent an employer from hiring a person who is likely to be required to effectively communicate with the likely customer, even if the manager is bilingual and has no problem communicating. Now, it's possible that jlf isn't the likely customer in that store, and that the cashier is quite adept at communicating with the likely customer. of course it doesn't, you asked how they got hired in some companies & I told ya how .. [;)] [:D] I would not hire someone that couldn't communicate effectively but that doesn't mean some companies don't just want a live body that can write whatever meal number the customer asks for.. but that is what makes bilingual employees valuable, in my mind at least.. so anyone not learning both languages is putting themselves at a disadvantage (& I am talking about English only speaking work seekers also, btw)..

DesideriScuri -> RE: I am quickly developing a problem with immigrants. (12/31/2013 9:51:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri I have to wonder how these people got hired in the first place. If they can't communicate in the predominate ([8D]) language, how did they get through the interviews? they were breathing??? [8\|] Lets face it, with a wage of $7.50/hr they are looking for someone that will accept that wage and stick around for as long as possible to keep turnover as low as they can.. I also expect they might have an employee incentive to bring/refer new potential employees to open positions, and some of the managers likely are bilingual (to be able to solve problems in both languages & train/direct employees in both languages).. That still doesn't solve the problem the employer is likely to have by hiring those who can't communicate effectively with the likely customer, though. An employer should be looking at that, too. Lack of ability to communicate effectively with the likely customer should prevent an employer from hiring a person who is likely to be required to effectively communicate with the likely customer, even if the manager is bilingual and has no problem communicating. Now, it's possible that jlf isn't the likely customer in that store, and that the cashier is quite adept at communicating with the likely customer. of course it doesn't, you asked how they got hired in some companies & I told ya how .. [;)] [:D] I would not hire someone that couldn't communicate effectively but that doesn't mean some companies don't just want a live body that can write whatever meal number the customer asks for.. but that is what makes bilingual employees valuable, in my mind at least.. so anyone not learning both languages is putting themselves at a disadvantage (& I am talking about English only speaking work seekers also, btw).. And, for those positions that only require a pulse (respiration optional), it's fine to hire someone who can't speak the dominant language of the likely customer base. Immigration and globalization makes those who know more than one language more skilled, and more ready to tackle positions that might require a second (or third, fourth, etc.) language. I'm wondering, though, if I should update my resume to include my fluency in bullshit and sarcasm as "other" languages? [:D]

EdBowie -> RE: I am quickly developing a problem with immigrants. (12/31/2013 10:20:28 AM)
There is a specialty within ESL called ESP (English for Specific Purposes), where employers pay for English tailored to the job. It probably isn't time effective for fast food workers, but many other industries pay for it. quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer FR What about English lessons provided and paid for by the companies who get all this cheap immigrant labour? A fair proposition, no? A company like McDonalds could even give participants one of their handsome and much prized certificates - similar to those they give to outstanding members of their restaurant 'crews' - at the end of each course. That might end up making it more difficult for an immigrant to get hired, though. If a company has to provide ESL instruction, it might be easier to just not hire those that would require it. And, there's nothing guaranteeing that a new employee would accept the education, either (it's doubtful that any would turn it down, but it's not a guarantee). I have to wonder how these people got hired in the first place. If they can't communicate in the predominate ([8D]) language, how did they get through the interviews?

vincentML -> RE: I am quickly developing a problem with immigrants. (12/31/2013 10:44:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: I answered this above so will add that when an employee of Publix in Hollywood Florida did not understand my question "Where is the wine?" I was able to pull out enough Spanish to get this answered as I had learned it for my trip to Costa Rica. I do have a problem with hiring employees to serve customers when said employees are not fluent in the customer's language. I blame the employer. It is quite wonderful how multicultural one can become when open contact is available. I don't see where fluent English is required to stock shelves or scan items at the check out in Publix. Fluent? No. Able to converse with the customers? Absolutely, if they are going to be out with the customers. An employee, be it a merchandiser or cashier, etc., is representing the company. It's in the best interest of the employer for that employee to be able to communicate with the customers, if there is likely to be customer contact. While being fluent is helpful, being able to communicate doesn't necessarily require fluency. Then the employer would be the best judge of whether to hire or not; surely they are not stupid management (not for long anyway :) There might be some other metrics to consider. 1. it may be good for public relations in a state like Florida where there is a large Latino population, 2. perhaps the lack of language fluency is compensated by a more diligent work ethic.

DesideriScuri -> RE: I am quickly developing a problem with immigrants. (12/31/2013 12:34:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: I answered this above so will add that when an employee of Publix in Hollywood Florida did not understand my question "Where is the wine?" I was able to pull out enough Spanish to get this answered as I had learned it for my trip to Costa Rica. I do have a problem with hiring employees to serve customers when said employees are not fluent in the customer's language. I blame the employer. It is quite wonderful how multicultural one can become when open contact is available. I don't see where fluent English is required to stock shelves or scan items at the check out in Publix. Fluent? No. Able to converse with the customers? Absolutely, if they are going to be out with the customers. An employee, be it a merchandiser or cashier, etc., is representing the company. It's in the best interest of the employer for that employee to be able to communicate with the customers, if there is likely to be customer contact. While being fluent is helpful, being able to communicate doesn't necessarily require fluency. Then the employer would be the best judge of whether to hire or not; surely they are not stupid management (not for long anyway :) There might be some other metrics to consider. 1. it may be good for public relations in a state like Florida where there is a large Latino population, 2. perhaps the lack of language fluency is compensated by a more diligent work ethic. You seem to be countering my assertions, but, yet, your very first point goes right along with the employee being able to communicate effectively with the likely customers. Certainly, an employer has every right to choose who to employ and who not to employ... Well, unless there is some government intervention preventing free choice in those matters. I touched on some of this in Post#222, too.

DesideriScuri -> RE: I am quickly developing a problem with immigrants. (12/31/2013 12:36:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: EdBowie There is a specialty within ESL called ESP (English for Specific Purposes), where employers pay for English tailored to the job. It probably isn't time effective for fast food workers, but many other industries pay for it. Never heard of it, Ed. Thanks for bringing it to the conversation. As far as it's name goes, it would seem to be a very worthy program for employers who have either a large ESL workforce, a large ESL customer base, or both.

mnottertail -> RE: I am quickly developing a problem with immigrants. (12/31/2013 12:36:45 PM)
Certainly, an employer has every right to choose who to employ and who not to employ... Well, unless there is some government intervention preventing free choice in those matters. And when there is, there is good cause, convicted felons and child molesters cannot work at certain jobs, and it is illegal to hire illegal aliens... I guess there are other reasons the government dont allow people to have free choice in these matters.

truckinslave -> RE: I am quickly developing a problem with immigrants. (12/31/2013 3:07:53 PM)
quote: Lets face it, with a wage of $7.50/hr they are looking for someone that will accept that wage and stick around Which brings up another problem of our currently unbridled unchecked immigration: the downward pressure it exerts on wages.

tj444 -> RE: I am quickly developing a problem with immigrants. (12/31/2013 4:14:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: truckinslave quote: Lets face it, with a wage of $7.50/hr they are looking for someone that will accept that wage and stick around Which brings up another problem of our currently unbridled unchecked immigration: the downward pressure it exerts on wages. I think the damage done by the Depression & resulting high unemployment the US has been experiencing since 2007 & greedy US corps offshoring jobs (as well as robots stealing jobs- that's why car mfrs have tens of thousands less employees) are the major reasons for low wages.. Those better paying jobs are gone due to those influences.. Btw, some immigrants start/invest in US start-ups and create jobs here too (in a variety of sectors/industries).. Of course none of that matters when you simply want to simply blame immigration instead of blaming being sold out to lobbyists & Big Corps (time & time again) by politicians (both parties) ya'll have elected.. (shrug)

Phydeaux -> RE: I am quickly developing a problem with immigrants. (12/31/2013 8:53:34 PM)
It really has nothing to do with greedy corps offshoring. Its either adapt or die. Offshoring was an attempt to adapt. Same reasons we no longer make textiles, Tvs, levis, most cars, radios, kitchen appliances, ships....

EdBowie -> RE: I am quickly developing a problem with immigrants. (12/31/2013 11:15:04 PM)
It was an attempt to maintain the same profit margins, the same legally mandated employee compensation and government safety regulations, and insanely high levels of executive compensation, after the rest of the world recovered from WWII and became competitive using much cheaper labor, much lower material costs, and much lower CEO pay ratios. By the time a $1200 Curtis Mathes picture tube looked worse than a $800 Mitsubishi, it was too late. quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux It really has nothing to do with greedy corps offshoring. Its either adapt or die. Offshoring was an attempt to adapt. Same reasons we no longer make textiles, Tvs, levis, most cars, radios, kitchen appliances, ships....

tj444 -> RE: I am quickly developing a problem with immigrants. (1/1/2014 7:31:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux It really has nothing to do with greedy corps offshoring. hahaha "nothing to do with greedy corps".. hahaha.. thanks, that's my first laugh of 2014! [sm=rofl.gif] quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux Its either adapt or die. then I guess the American workers better learn to adapt or die also.. [8\|]

vincentML -> RE: I am quickly developing a problem with immigrants. (1/1/2014 8:58:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail Certainly, an employer has every right to choose who to employ and who not to employ... Well, unless there is some government intervention preventing free choice in those matters. And when there is, there is good cause, convicted felons and child molesters cannot work at certain jobs, and it is illegal to hire illegal aliens... I guess there are other reasons the government dont allow people to have free choice in these matters. Also illegal to hire intergalactic alien felons escaped from Alpha Cenquentin

Zonie63 -> RE: I am quickly developing a problem with immigrants. (1/2/2014 6:07:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML Also illegal to hire intergalactic alien felons escaped from Alpha Cenquentin I don't think Alpha Cenquentin is a member of the Federation, although I'll have to check. Still, I believe it's permissible to employ aliens from non-Federation worlds, except for Romulans (unless they defect). Even reformed Borg can be employed, just like Seven of Nine. [:D]

DesideriScuri -> RE: I am quickly developing a problem with immigrants. (1/2/2014 7:13:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Zonie63 quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML Also illegal to hire intergalactic alien felons escaped from Alpha Cenquentin I don't think Alpha Cenquentin is a member of the Federation, although I'll have to check. Still, I believe it's permissible to employ aliens from non-Federation worlds, except for Romulans (unless they defect). Even reformed Borg can be employed, just like Seven of Nine. [:D] What's the ruling on cylons? Do "meat jobs" fall under different categories than "toasters?"

graceadieu -> RE: I am quickly developing a problem with immigrants. (1/5/2014 1:16:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: truckinslave quote: And what worked 500 years ago isn't nesseccerally going to work today is it? No no no. Our need for essentially unlimited immigration will never ever ever ever ebb. Never abate, slow, or cease. Never We're all the children of immigrants, you know. What are you, some kind of racist? We do need immigration, actually. The US birth rate isn't high enough to even maintain our population without it. We'd end up with the same problems that Japan has if we closed our borders.

graceadieu -> RE: I am quickly developing a problem with immigrants. (1/5/2014 1:35:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam If you taught that long in Dade Co, you must also be aware of the parochial/private schools in Hialeah and little Havana that taught K-12 in Spanish until the state outlawed that practice in the late 80's. That's right kids. Parents paid extra to make sure their kids did NOT speak English until the 3rd generation when the state finally outlawed the practice. Hmm. Were those Cuban refugees hoping to move back to Cuba eventually? I know in the DC area, there are a number of schools like that (French, German, etc), which are basically meant for diplomats and such, temporary residents who don't want their kids to get too Americanized because they're not planning on staying here. If the people in "little Havana" thought that Castro was going to get overthrown any day now and they'd be going back to their house in Cuba before their kids were done with high school, they may have had the same feeling.

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