The conservatives are right, there is no climate change happening.... (Full Version)

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jlf1961 -> The conservatives are right, there is no climate change happening.... (1/4/2014 3:13:11 PM)

Of course, the current drought in Texas happens to coincide with the hottest years on record in the last decade.

The fact that in a few years, Glacier National park will have to be renamed because the glaciers will be gone.

Not to mention the simple fact that glaciers around the world are receding at record paces.

Nor is it a factor that carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere are higher than at any time in earth's history, with the possible exception of the Jurassic.

The fact that 97% of climatologists seem to feel that the global climate is changing at a unheard of rate.

The earth goes through heating and cooling cycles...

And just because all the ice core data says the planet should be entering another cooling cycle instead of warming, and that the next ice age should begin, if all the ice cores are being honest, in about 1500 years.

Nor is it important that all the studies to discredit the theory have either been renounced or funded by oil companies, coal companies, the Koch brothers.

Add to that the deforestation of rain forests are taking away trees that are real good at getting carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere...

Besides, what is wrong with removing green house gasses from the atmosphere in the first place?

Of course, my grand kids will have the pleasure of knowing that the two parcels of land I own will be a hell of a lot closer to the beach than they are now.




Phydeaux -> RE: The conservatives are right, there is no climate change happening.... (1/4/2014 9:15:26 PM)

Oh, you mean the himalayan glaciers?

The ones that were prognisticated to be gone soon in the 2007 IPCC - based solely on a press release from the WWF?

You know the one that was based on .. well .. no science at all - but was nonetheless signed off on by the lead editor, well, because he worked there?

You know. The ones that are thousands and thousands of feet above the frost line - and, in fact, are not melting?

Those glaciers?

So, if the drought in texas in the last decade is evidence of global warming - will the historic cold temperatures this weekend be evidence of global cooling.

JLF, I don't know where you get your data. But the IPCC itself has conceded that the 'catastrophic' warming is occuring at 1/4 the rate they thought it was.
And that it has essentially paused. And they don't know when it will start again.

And no matter how you slice it - .0075 degrees a year is less than the rate of warming that occured in the 20's and 30's. Not to mention thousands of other periods.




TheHeretic -> RE: The conservatives are right, there is no climate change happening.... (1/4/2014 9:27:30 PM)

Y'know, the wife had the TV on for background noise earlier today, and I thought I heard this then, so please clarify if you can. Is it really the latest position of the AGW social activist wing that we ought to be starting our next ice age, and aren't? NOT having glaciers march down to destroy every work of man above the 45th parallel is going to be a bad thing?





DaddySatyr -> RE: The conservatives are right, there is no climate change happening.... (1/4/2014 9:41:04 PM)

algore must have a car or alimony payment due.







jlf1961 -> RE: The conservatives are right, there is no climate change happening.... (1/4/2014 10:47:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Y'know, the wife had the TV on for background noise earlier today, and I thought I heard this then, so please clarify if you can. Is it really the latest position of the AGW social activist wing that we ought to be starting our next ice age, and aren't? NOT having glaciers march down to destroy every work of man above the 45th parallel is going to be a bad thing?





Honestly, according to ice cores, the planet should be starting to cool down, with an ice age beginning in about 1500 years.

My point that seems to have been missed is that while I dont agree that mankind is the only culprit in the global climate shift, we have had a big part in it.

What I am suggesting is that we switch to carbon neutral fuels, bio fuels that are made from non food crops or crops like soy beans. Also it seems that cannabis oil makes a perfect bio fuel, and sorry for the pot smokers, the fumes will not get you high.

And finally, in all honesty, CO2 is not considered the main culprit anymore, Perfluorotributylamine is, and it is about 7000 times more potent than CO2 ever was. new green house gas.

So my question is, what is wrong with changing what we put into the air?

Oh, and here is a kick in the teeth, back in the 70's some botanist created a fast growing hard wood tree that would be ready to be harvested for lumber in 7 to ten years, would grow great in areas that had been clear cut, however when the lumber company he was working for planned to start a test plot, a bunch of tree huggers filed an injunction since the tree could not reproduce naturally.

Lets face it, some things are changing like never before. It may be human caused or it may be something else. Hell considering the expansion of the cattle industry world wide, it could be all the cow farts.

If people come up with ways to significantly cut greenhouse gas production by humans, that wont bankrupt an industry to use it, why not use the system? Of course, from what I have seen, scientists are screaming climate change, and not a damn one of them is working on a cost effective way to cut or eliminate greenhouse gas emissions, they want the polluters to do it, which is kind of like suggesting that pilots design aircraft, and I mean down to the last nut and bolt.

Wind farms take too much land for little return, solar power generating stations take up more land to produce what a small power plant does on fifty acres. Fusion is the best bet in the nuclear power field, but it is at least 50 years away, so build more nuke plants.

As for cars, yeah a hydrogen fuel cell sounds great, until it gets really cold then it is next to useless. Electric cars are useless for long trips, and most of them take a long time to charge.

NASA wants to go back to the moon, let em, they can haul the nuclear waste up there and we wont have to worry about it. (sarcasm)

I guess what I am trying to get across is lets quit fighting about the pollution problem and work to solve it, forget climate change.

Of course if one of the super volcanoes around the planet decides to blow, this is all a moot point. My spam box gets 20 of the "this volcano is going to blow and destroy civilization" a day.







TheHeretic -> RE: The conservatives are right, there is no climate change happening.... (1/4/2014 10:58:26 PM)

You raise something that has been my glitch with the entire global warming cultist movement from go, Jlf; that being those who hear some scientific info, and decide they can use it to push their own socio-political agenda that has nothing to do with the wagon they have hijacked.

Ever run across the folks who want to save the planet by returning humanity to the stone age? Fun bunch, especially if you get enough beer into them, and provide just the right nudge to get them started on the sustainable human population.





popeye1250 -> RE: The conservatives are right, there is no climate change happening.... (1/4/2014 11:55:05 PM)

Yeah, this is real simple, you just tell people they can have their "global warming" they can have rallies, bake sales whatever but,....."not one thin dime of the taxpayer's money."

Five years ago the Bernie Madoff of "global warming" ALGORE told us that there would be "no ice cap left" on the N. Pole "in five years" and that the seas would rise.
I personally checked last summer at mean high tide at a particular place very familiar to me and guess what?
That guy made a lot of money off a lot of......people!
They say he's "Romney Rich" now!
Do you think he cares about "global warming" anymore?
And when did this become a "Lib vs Con issue?
There's probably 90% of Dems that think that "global warmers" are, as John "Wacko" Mc Cain would say,..."wacko birds."
Funny, all the lefties who espouse these ..."causes" always (((claim))) that "all the Democrats" are... *with* them!
It's the same with that "amnesty" stuff!
Coming from the Boston, Mass area I know a LOT of Democrats and none of them, not a *ONE* is in favor of *any* kind of amnesty, pathway to citizenship" or *anything* like that yet,.....the people who want that shit "claim" that ..."the Democrats are with us!" when in fact probably not 2% of Democrats are!
And you call them on it and they just change the subject and keep yammering away.
It's like they're, "lie machines."
I forget the guy's name who wrote "1984."




jlf1961 -> RE: The conservatives are right, there is no climate change happening.... (1/5/2014 12:02:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

You raise something that has been my glitch with the entire global warming cultist movement from go, Jlf; that being those who hear some scientific info, and decide they can use it to push their own socio-political agenda that has nothing to do with the wagon they have hijacked.

Ever run across the folks who want to save the planet by returning humanity to the stone age? Fun bunch, especially if you get enough beer into them, and provide just the right nudge to get them started on the sustainable human population.




My glitch with the global warming protestors is they have one idea on how to fix it, cease all carbon output. Fine if you dont want electricity, or to travel.

I have yet to see one news report about a breakthrough that actually cleans the pollution at the source for factories etc. I heard once that smoke contains compounds that can be burned, if true, why hasnt someone figured out a way to capture it and burn it?

I will be honest, all I want is a cleaner planet for my grand kids and great grand kids. Is that too much to ask? I mean if it is cleaner for my grand kids, it is cleaner for everyone's grand kids.




Dvr22999874 -> RE: The conservatives are right, there is no climate change happening.... (1/5/2014 12:47:39 AM)

George Orwell




DomKen -> RE: The conservatives are right, there is no climate change happening.... (1/5/2014 6:34:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

You raise something that has been my glitch with the entire global warming cultist movement from go, Jlf; that being those who hear some scientific info, and decide they can use it to push their own socio-political agenda that has nothing to do with the wagon they have hijacked.

Ever run across the folks who want to save the planet by returning humanity to the stone age? Fun bunch, especially if you get enough beer into them, and provide just the right nudge to get them started on the sustainable human population.




My glitch with the global warming protestors is they have one idea on how to fix it, cease all carbon output. Fine if you dont want electricity, or to travel.

I have yet to see one news report about a breakthrough that actually cleans the pollution at the source for factories etc. I heard once that smoke contains compounds that can be burned, if true, why hasnt someone figured out a way to capture it and burn it?

I will be honest, all I want is a cleaner planet for my grand kids and great grand kids. Is that too much to ask? I mean if it is cleaner for my grand kids, it is cleaner for everyone's grand kids.

The problem is CO2 has to be a byproduct of burning carbon. It's simple chemistry O2 + C = CO2 (and yes I know the actual reaction is slightly more complicated but the outcome is that simple).




DesideriScuri -> RE: The conservatives are right, there is no climate change happening.... (1/5/2014 8:21:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
Of course, the current drought in Texas happens to coincide with the hottest years on record in the last decade.
The fact that in a few years, Glacier National park will have to be renamed because the glaciers will be gone.
Not to mention the simple fact that glaciers around the world are receding at record paces.
Nor is it a factor that carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere are higher than at any time in earth's history, with the possible exception of the Jurassic.
The fact that 97% of climatologists seem to feel that the global climate is changing at a unheard of rate.
The earth goes through heating and cooling cycles...
And just because all the ice core data says the planet should be entering another cooling cycle instead of warming, and that the next ice age should begin, if all the ice cores are being honest, in about 1500 years.
Nor is it important that all the studies to discredit the theory have either been renounced or funded by oil companies, coal companies, the Koch brothers.
Add to that the deforestation of rain forests are taking away trees that are real good at getting carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere...
Besides, what is wrong with removing green house gasses from the atmosphere in the first place?
Of course, my grand kids will have the pleasure of knowing that the two parcels of land I own will be a hell of a lot closer to the beach than they are now.


Jeff, it's not so much that conservatives don't think there is no climate change, but that it's Man that is driving it. That's the real crux of the issue.




servantforuse -> RE: The conservatives are right, there is no climate change happening.... (1/5/2014 8:45:39 AM)

Conservatives, myself included, do believe in climate change. It has and will change. That is what climate does. I don't believe in global warming like AlGore and the other nutty liberals out there.




MrRodgers -> RE: The conservatives are right, there is no climate change happening.... (1/5/2014 9:00:04 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Yeah, this is real simple, you just tell people they can have their "global warming" they can have rallies, bake sales whatever but,....."not one thin dime of the taxpayer's money."

Five years ago the Bernie Madoff of "global warming" ALGORE told us that there would be "no ice cap left" on the N. Pole "in five years" and that the seas would rise.
I personally checked last summer at mean high tide at a particular place very familiar to me and guess what?
That guy made a lot of money off a lot of......people!
They say he's "Romney Rich" now!
Do you think he cares about "global warming" anymore?
And when did this become a "Lib vs Con issue?
There's probably 90% of Dems that think that "global warmers" are, as John "Wacko" Mc Cain would say,..."wacko birds."
Funny, all the lefties who espouse these ..."causes" always (((claim))) that "all the Democrats" are... *with* them!
It's the same with that "amnesty" stuff!
Coming from the Boston, Mass area I know a LOT of Democrats and none of them, not a *ONE* is in favor of *any* kind of amnesty, pathway to citizenship" or *anything* like that yet,.....the people who want that shit "claim" that ..."the Democrats are with us!" when in fact probably not 2% of Democrats are!
And you call them on it and they just change the subject and keep yammering away.
It's like they're, "lie machines."
I forget the guy's name who wrote "1984."

Oh please, enough on Al Gore. What would the naysayers do without that punching bag. Whatever few hundred thousand that Al Gores makes from no more than speeches is in comparison to what the carbon burners make in polluting the atmosphere...legion.

Look, Al Gore's family was heir to the RJR fortune, then he invested very early, like way back in Apple and also Intel among others. So enough of this shit, ok ?




Tkman117 -> RE: The conservatives are right, there is no climate change happening.... (1/5/2014 9:49:07 AM)

FR

What confuses me is 97% of climate scientists agree that climate change is happening and that it is being driven, at least a good chunk of it, by man made actions. What makes conservatives think that 97% of scientists are wrong? These are people who breathe and live science, which is a field where they go into situations asking questions, not going in with an expectation in mind and twisting the information towards a certain result. What good comes of that? Really? All of the money is in the oil industry so what money would they gain from validating what was already known? Science is tested and retested over and over and over. They have found that CO2 and other green house gasses trap heat from the sun, and in sufficient amounts, they warm the atmosphere. So what makes politicians and non scientists think that they no better than the men and women who have studied and explored this issue for so many years? What makes them the experts?

Now, in the last 2 decades, climate models have and continue to become more accurate. These models provide a range of probable outcomes, and if the outcomes fall outside these probabilities then there is something wrong with the model or it isn't accurate enough. Models aren't designed to predict outcomes with 100% accuracy, doing so would require the creation of a model which can track every atom on planet earth and predict where each one will go and when. Models are only so powerful, but they're useful as they give us a general idea of where the world is heading.




servantforuse -> RE: The conservatives are right, there is no climate change happening.... (1/5/2014 10:04:48 AM)

I'd like to know where you got that 97 % from.




popeye1250 -> RE: The conservatives are right, there is no climate change happening.... (1/5/2014 11:12:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117

FR

What confuses me is 97% of climate scientists agree that climate change is happening and that it is being driven, at least a good chunk of it, by man made actions. What makes conservatives think that 97% of scientists are wrong? These are people who breathe and live science, which is a field where they go into situations asking questions, not going in with an expectation in mind and twisting the information towards a certain result. What good comes of that? Really? All of the money is in the oil industry so what money would they gain from validating what was already known? Science is tested and retested over and over and over. They have found that CO2 and other green house gasses trap heat from the sun, and in sufficient amounts, they warm the atmosphere. So what makes politicians and non scientists think that they no better than the men and women who have studied and explored this issue for so many years? What makes them the experts?

Now, in the last 2 decades, climate models have and continue to become more accurate. These models provide a range of probable outcomes, and if the outcomes fall outside these probabilities then there is something wrong with the model or it isn't accurate enough. Models aren't designed to predict outcomes with 100% accuracy, doing so would require the creation of a model which can track every atom on planet earth and predict where each one will go and when. Models are only so powerful, but they're useful as they give us a general idea of where the world is heading.



Ah,... and there-in lies your problem; "what confuses me is 97% of,...*"Climate Scientists*"
No wonder you're confused!
What type of science practitioners were they (((before))) they became,..."climate scientists, anyway?
Now that would be confusing wouldn't it?
It'd be like oh,..... a lawyer who changed their mind and decided to "become" a "manager" intead. "Do you have any managerial experience?" "Ahhhhhhh,....no."
Also, those "scientists" never seem to want to talk about ..."funding" do they? (So,.....they don't want *ANY MONEY* FROM U.S. TAXPAYERS, correct?) This has absolutely nothing to do with money ($$$) correct?
It's funny, the U.S., Europe and Australia are the cleanest countries in the world, and I'm old enough to remember when the U.S. was really dirty, air water, land.
Yet instead of going to the dirtiest countries in the world, learning their languages (China, Brazil, etc) and lecturing them the "warmers" remain in Western countries and keep going "back to the well."
That's one of the problems here Tkman117, hows about leaving U.S. Citizens THE FUCK ALONE WITH THIS B.S.?
No-one likes to have the Jehovah's Witnesses banging on their door twice a week, do they?




Phydeaux -> RE: The conservatives are right, there is no climate change happening.... (1/5/2014 12:56:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Y'know, the wife had the TV on for background noise earlier today, and I thought I heard this then, so please clarify if you can. Is it really the latest position of the AGW social activist wing that we ought to be starting our next ice age, and aren't? NOT having glaciers march down to destroy every work of man above the 45th parallel is going to be a bad thing?





Honestly, according to ice cores, the planet should be starting to cool down, with an ice age beginning in about 1500 years.

My point that seems to have been missed is that while I dont agree that mankind is the only culprit in the global climate shift, we have had a big part in it.

What I am suggesting is that we switch to carbon neutral fuels, bio fuels that are made from non food crops or crops like soy beans. Also it seems that cannabis oil makes a perfect bio fuel, and sorry for the pot smokers, the fumes will not get you high.

And finally, in all honesty, CO2 is not considered the main culprit anymore, Perfluorotributylamine is, and it is about 7000 times more potent than CO2 ever was. new green house gas.

So my question is, what is wrong with changing what we put into the air?

Oh, and here is a kick in the teeth, back in the 70's some botanist created a fast growing hard wood tree that would be ready to be harvested for lumber in 7 to ten years, would grow great in areas that had been clear cut, however when the lumber company he was working for planned to start a test plot, a bunch of tree huggers filed an injunction since the tree could not reproduce naturally.

Lets face it, some things are changing like never before. It may be human caused or it may be something else. Hell considering the expansion of the cattle industry world wide, it could be all the cow farts.

If people come up with ways to significantly cut greenhouse gas production by humans, that wont bankrupt an industry to use it, why not use the system? Of course, from what I have seen, scientists are screaming climate change, and not a damn one of them is working on a cost effective way to cut or eliminate greenhouse gas emissions, they want the polluters to do it, which is kind of like suggesting that pilots design aircraft, and I mean down to the last nut and bolt.

Wind farms take too much land for little return, solar power generating stations take up more land to produce what a small power plant does on fifty acres. Fusion is the best bet in the nuclear power field, but it is at least 50 years away, so build more nuke plants.

As for cars, yeah a hydrogen fuel cell sounds great, until it gets really cold then it is next to useless. Electric cars are useless for long trips, and most of them take a long time to charge.

NASA wants to go back to the moon, let em, they can haul the nuclear waste up there and we wont have to worry about it. (sarcasm)

I guess what I am trying to get across is lets quit fighting about the pollution problem and work to solve it, forget climate change.

Of course if one of the super volcanoes around the planet decides to blow, this is all a moot point. My spam box gets 20 of the "this volcano is going to blow and destroy civilization" a day.






So here, I have quite a lot of agreement with you. I support nuclear reactors completely; as well as the opening of Yuca -which harry reid accepted the jobs (for 20 years ors so) and then killed the opening.

In fact he also has attempted to seal yuca mountain - so it could never be used.

I don't agree that pert is the threat you think it is (since ir absorption from the earth is already essentially saturated - adding additional CO2 does not increase absorption)- but I do agree with better air polution controls.

The US has probably had the biggest reduction in CO2 emissions of any country - due to fracking.

So. Lets agree to do the things that work. Nuclear. Natural Gas. And ditch all the rest of the crap that is expensive idiocy. Ethanol. Electric car subsidies, (not opposed to electric cars, am opposed to taking $7500 from middle class people to pay for rich people to buy $75000 cars). War on coal.

Lets do the things that we agree on, and that work.




Tkman117 -> RE: The conservatives are right, there is no climate change happening.... (1/5/2014 5:54:07 PM)

Right here my friend

http://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus




Tkman117 -> RE: The conservatives are right, there is no climate change happening.... (1/5/2014 5:55:33 PM)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions

When the USA is right up there next to a country that has 1 BILLION people in terms of CO2 production, it's hard not to bash the USA on these kind of issues. So before you start blaming others, look at yourself please.




Tkman117 -> RE: The conservatives are right, there is no climate change happening.... (1/5/2014 6:03:47 PM)

Not to mention that most advanced climate scientists didn't just appear as climate scientists, they were likely firstly hydrologists, Atmospheric scientists, geologists, etc. People such as myself are in school for "Environmental sciences" which is the closest thing you can get to climate sciences. Climate sciences is a very broad field, ranging from ground, water to air. When there are trending changes in this world, such as AVERAGE increases in GLOBAL temperatures, scientists are bound to notice. And you do realize a lot of these scientists raise their money through universities correct? And those who don't, well, do you even know how much researcher make per year? It's not nearly as much as you would think. Here is a link to a large list of positions and avg salaries, take a look around, there is no Climate Scientist category because, again, climate sciences is enveloped in atmospheric sciences, biology, hydrology, etc, and there are some examples of those on this site.

http://www1.salary.com/Science-and-Research-Salaries.html




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