RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge

RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge (Full Version)

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Milesnmiles -> RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge (1/20/2014 1:07:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail Oh, I see and how by destroying people including the world and starting over did this fuckin idiot magic sky wizard give them a chance to make up their mind, say; the son of David, and the infant sons of Amalek? But that would be stupidity, because the 6 million jews were killed after jesus time, and they were given no choice. There are none blind as those who will not see. ;-)

mnottertail -> RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge (1/20/2014 1:08:23 PM)
I did, the child was made sick by god, and died by god, and was buried, as the only one worth burying. But that right there is the gravamen of the account there is nothing more or less to add or subtract, nothing out of context or nothing that needs embellishing. For iff (you know what that word means?) god does not lie, he killed the child, if he does lie, he did not.

vincentML -> RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge (1/20/2014 1:11:03 PM)
quote: As for "standing by" I already answered that, humans that have turned away from God can not expect help from someone they have turned their back on and have basically told they don't want his help. Can't think of a better time for the Dude to show up, display his mercy, and rescue the oppressed. That's what Jesus would do, innit? He would surely win a lot of hearts that way. Otherwise, piss poor public relations, only showing his angry side. Are you sure you aren't imputing your own attitude to the Dude? Jesus says "I am the Way." But he never says: Sorry, no mulligans.

mnottertail -> RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge (1/20/2014 1:26:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail Oh, I see and how by destroying people including the world and starting over did this fuckin idiot magic sky wizard give them a chance to make up their mind, say; the son of David, and the infant sons of Amalek? But that would be stupidity, because the 6 million jews were killed after jesus time, and they were given no choice. There are none blind as those who will not see. ;-) Take off your sunglasses, serpico. It may improve your vision.

Rule -> RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge (1/20/2014 5:06:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles As for "standing by" I already answered that, humans that have turned away from God can not expect help from someone they have turned their back on and have basically told they don't want his help. The Divine cannot intervene on its own volition in our universe. But it will provide opportunities for anyone who spiritually communicates his wish, whether they have turned their back to the Divine or not. As for the Jews, they had more than two thousand years to end their custom of their mutilation of their male children. Some did and turned Christians; others did not and they reaped the harvest of their sin.

Milesnmiles -> RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge (1/20/2014 5:14:42 PM)
Well since most of the comments have devolved into profanity, insults and idiocy, I have nothing to add. Adios ;-)

EdBowie -> RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge (1/20/2014 9:34:48 PM)
Is that what's known as 'false witness' in Scriptural circles? The 'most commonly used' definition has absolutely zero controlling property of any usage. quote: ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail Uh, learn about dictionaries before you blather on about that shit, the nuances of the definitions contain no primary or secondary or tertiary definitions. the definition marked 2007 is as valid and useable as the one marked one. (there could be some quibble if it is marked (archaic) but no, one does not favor another. Milesn miles it seems like I owe you an apology over my claim that you were bending things. My reasoning involved the premise that you had at least an elementary school level of ability at operating dictionaries. Bad assumption on my part, sorry. I didn't realize so many had no idea how a dictionary works, so I will repeat it. When you look up a word in a dictionary, the first or #1 definition is the primary or most often used definition of the word in question. Which is what I said. I did not say that the other definitions were wrong or could not be used, just that they are not what is considered by that dictionary to be the primary definition or the way the word is used most often. That is why when you get to the "2007th" definition, you have no clue the word could be used that way because you have never seen or heard it used that way and that way will never be listed as #1. ;-)

EdBowie -> RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge (1/20/2014 9:38:22 PM)
Awww, gee. And just when I was certain that you were finally going to answer the question as to why all the Divinely guided artistic portayals of Adam and Eve show them with belly buttons... was that because they were formed in God's exact image? Because either way, someone's got a lot of 'splainin to do. quote: ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles Well since most of the comments have devolved into profanity, insults and idiocy, I have nothing to add. Adios ;-)

GotSteel -> RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge (1/21/2014 5:20:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles Try reading the account beginning to end and not just piecemeal. (1 Kings 14:1-18) After you actually read the account, you will notice that the "good child" was ill and on its death bed when Jeroboam's wife was told that the child would die and that was before this pronouncement was ever made. So this nonsense that "Yahweh" murdered that child is just that, nonsense. ;-) Holy reality denial batman. Jeroboam's wife goes to ask why the good child is sick and this is what Yahweh says: "I will bring disaster on your dynasty and will destroy every one of your male descendants, slave and free alike," According to Yahweh he caused the illness that killed the good child, he's certainly claiming credit for it anyway. I get that it's hard to admit that you are way more moral than your god but you're going to have to give part of your worldview up here, either Yahweh's a liar or Yahweh murders innocent children. And if Yahweh lied about killing "every one" and was really just stealing credit for an unrelated illness....you've got to wonder what else has he been lying to you about.....

GotSteel -> RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge (1/21/2014 5:35:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles People, people, doesn't anyone know how a dictionary works? So you're surrounded by numerous well educated people more than one genius among them but you're the one, THE ONLY ONE who knows how to use a dictionary....there's no reality denial going on there [8\|]

mnottertail -> RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge (1/21/2014 5:46:50 AM)
http://www.merriam-webster.com/help/dictnotes/def.htm http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/436518/The-Oxford-English-Dictionary-OED So, order is as a matter of tradition, first known use, and the next, and so on, usually (there be miasmas even there). It would be interesting, and I am sure they are out there, a dictionary ordered by statistical usage, but......again, such temporal slang as michael jackson bad, versus freddy krueger bad, would have the dictionaries falling out of round nearly every hour, and that would be an expensive and untenable situation.

Rule -> RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge (1/21/2014 6:40:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles Try reading the account beginning to end and not just piecemeal. (1 Kings 14:1-18) After you actually read the account, you will notice that the "good child" was ill and on its death bed when Jeroboam's wife was told that the child would die and that was before this pronouncement was ever made. So this nonsense that "Yahweh" murdered that child is just that, nonsense. ;-) I agree. There are two issues here: 1. Jeroboam not behaving as desired by the pagan god who ruled humanity in those days, and 2. the child getting ill. 2 was used as an opportunity to berate Jeroboam. One might speculate that the ruling pagan god had desired such an opportunity and that the Divine, complying with his desire, provided it in this form. Thus, though there may have been a spiritual connection by means of the Divine between the ruling pagan god and the child getting ill, there was no causal connection between the ruling pagan god and the death of the child. The pagan god had not wished for the child to get ill and die: he had wished for an opportunity to berate Jeroboam. If the child had not gotten ill, another opportunity would have presented itself and been used for the ruling pagan god to berate Jeroboam. The child was fortunate to be buried, or at least his shade was fortunate that the corpse was buried, for burial was a requirement for the immediate admittance of the shade to the afterlife. The pagan god approved of this immediate admittance.

GotSteel -> RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge (1/21/2014 7:44:07 AM)
So bringing this back around to the OP, I don't think the invention of gods is necessarily about controlling knowledge nor do I think the invention of religion is necessarily about controlling knowledge. However (as the last 10 pages have been an extreme example of) faith damages ones ability to reason. The brainwashing about the importance of faith, yeah that's a tool created to control knowledge.

vincentML -> RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge (1/21/2014 9:03:45 AM)
FR It appears that Elvis has left the building . . . .

Phydeaux -> RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge (1/21/2014 9:32:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel quote: ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles Try reading the account beginning to end and not just piecemeal. (1 Kings 14:1-18) After you actually read the account, you will notice that the "good child" was ill and on its death bed when Jeroboam's wife was told that the child would die and that was before this pronouncement was ever made. So this nonsense that "Yahweh" murdered that child is just that, nonsense. ;-) Holy reality denial batman. Jeroboam's wife goes to ask why the good child is sick and this is what Yahweh says: "I will bring disaster on your dynasty and will destroy every one of your male descendants, slave and free alike," According to Yahweh he caused the illness that killed the good child, he's certainly claiming credit for it anyway. I get that it's hard to admit that you are way more moral than your god but you're going to have to give part of your worldview up here, either Yahweh's a liar or Yahweh murders innocent children. And if Yahweh lied about killing "every one" and was really just stealing credit for an unrelated illness....you've got to wonder what else has he been lying to you about..... Sorry. It is not possible to be more moral than God. Any deviance (having a different point of view) makes you less moral, not more. God cares more what happens to your soul than your body. God cares more what happens to his chosen people than pagans. For the wages of sin is death... But finally, the covenant of the old testament is not the covenant of the new.

Tkman117 -> RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge (1/21/2014 9:40:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux Sorry. It is not possible to be more moral than God. Any deviance (having a different point of view) makes you less moral, not more. God cares more what happens to your soul than your body. God cares more what happens to his chosen people than pagans. For the wages of sin is death... But finally, the covenant of the old testament is not the covenant of the new. Got to love religious extremists, next thing you know, there'll be a christian taliban on the run...oh wait... http://www.salon.com/2013/08/03/the_10_worst_examples_of_christian_or_far_right_terrorism_partner/

vincentML -> RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge (1/21/2014 9:56:52 AM)
quote: Sorry. It is not possible to be more moral than God. Any deviance (having a different point of view) makes you less moral, not more. God cares more what happens to your soul than your body. God cares more what happens to his chosen people than pagans. For the wages of sin is death... But finally, the covenant of the old testament is not the covenant of the new. Are you saying then that there is no intrinsic morality? Nothing is good because it simply is? If god were to command: 'thou shalt kill' would murder be the moral position of goodness or would murder still be intrinsically immoral?

mnottertail -> RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge (1/21/2014 9:58:27 AM)
And of course it presupposes a god. If the new testament is not the old testament there was a deal changer, and morality then changed. It goes way downhill from there.

vincentML -> RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge (1/21/2014 10:02:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail And of course it presupposes a god. If the new testament is not the old testament there was a deal changer, and morality then changed. It goes way downhill from there. In what way did it go down hill?

mnottertail -> RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge (1/21/2014 10:07:18 AM)
The slippery slope is generally not considered to run towards the apex of the mountain.

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