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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/9/2014 12:11:42 PM

Politesub53

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quote:

No, true Christianity has no "violent and brutal history" and any who believe that do not know what Christianity is.

The mind boggles.

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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/9/2014 12:12:21 PM

mnottertail

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You're not scottish, laddie buck; you are from the south. That's why you don't 'get' it.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 1/9/2014 12:13:26 PM >

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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/9/2014 12:12:31 PM

Milesnmiles

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quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie
...
'Textbook example of the 'No True Scotsman' fallacy.
...

And then sometimes, they just aren't "Scotsmen". ;-)

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Post #: 163

RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/9/2014 12:19:34 PM

EdBowie

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Of course there is a God. You think I would waste 9 dollars to see The Avengers if it wasn't all true?

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Well, its gonna make sense then, this thread till this very point. Otherwise, I would have classed it as pure rubbish.

So, there is a god.

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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/9/2014 12:20:40 PM

mnottertail

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But they are fallacious, regardless of country of origin.

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Post #: 165

RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/9/2014 12:22:01 PM

MarcEsadrian

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bubbabarrett31
which came first religion or knowledge?

First came unknowing, or ignorance. That is the beginning of knowledge: it's absence, or more precisely, sensing its absence. Then comes the desire to know, which leads to speculation and wonder. Bereft of the tools and supporting knowledge necessary in a primitive world where even the lightening is a mystery, one can only wonder and hypothesize. And so our fears and imaginations wander, making up things to explain the dearth of our true understanding. That's where religion comes in to play, I think: the inception of supernatural forces beyond the temporal which explain the unexplainable. That in and of itself isn't so much the problem as is the exploitative side of human nature which uses fear to control the masses, and subsequently, knowledge itself.

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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/9/2014 12:22:10 PM

Milesnmiles

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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles

quote:

The legacy of Christianity is that it stems from a very violent and brutal history. We need stop denying that.

No, true Christianity has no "violent and brutal history" and any who believe that do not know what Christianity is.

I would suggest you re-read some history.
Christianity, and in fact most religions, are based on a very violent and brutal history.

Have you not heard of the Templar wars, nick-named The Crusades?
Very christian-based brutality performed in the name of 'god' all over the world.

Mayhap that it is you that has no idea of what christianity is.

If I steal your ID and run up big debit in your name, you might have a real hard proving it wasn't you but the simple truth is it wasn't you.

Now remind me again, how many of those "Crusades" did Jesus lead or perhaps you can show me the scripture where Jesus said; "go forth and kill the infidels".

Perhaps it is you that has never looked in to what it means to be a Christian and have just been taking other peoples word for it. ;-)

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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/9/2014 12:24:39 PM

EdBowie

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You can do better than that, I'm sure.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

But they are fallacious, regardless of country of origin.

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Post #: 168

RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/9/2014 12:27:34 PM

EdBowie

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ROTFL! So not only are you an expert on Christianity who can't answer the simplest of questions, but now you are able to tell other people on the internet that they aren't Christians, because you say they aren't?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles

quote:

The legacy of Christianity is that it stems from a very violent and brutal history. We need stop denying that.

No, true Christianity has no "violent and brutal history" and any who believe that do not know what Christianity is.

I would suggest you re-read some history.
Christianity, and in fact most religions, are based on a very violent and brutal history.

Have you not heard of the Templar wars, nick-named The Crusades?
Very christian-based brutality performed in the name of 'god' all over the world.

Mayhap that it is you that has no idea of what christianity is.

If I steal your ID and run up big debit in your name, you might have a real hard proving it wasn't you but the simple truth is it wasn't you.

Now remind me again, how many of those "Crusades" did Jesus lead or perhaps you can show me the scripture where Jesus said; "go forth and kill the infidels".

Perhaps it is you that has never looked in to what it means to be a Christian and have just been taking other peoples word for it. ;-)

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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/9/2014 12:29:20 PM

Milesnmiles

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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

I have to decide if it is worthwhile to discuss this with you. This is not the first time I've had this discussion, not my first rodeo. It seems this subject upsets you and you maybe even have a "dog in this fight". I do not, I just enjoy discussing it and have no vested interest in the subject and could argue either side but usually defend God and the Bible because there always seems to be more on the other side. Most of what you say is new to you but it is "old stuff" to me. So if you feel willing to stretch the discussion and not just keep repeating the same things over and over again without thinking about and addressing the points I've given, lets go for it but if not then I give up, you win, I've never read such insightful arguments in my life. ;-)

It is 'old stuff' to you and you still evade rather than try to explore the issue. If you would reply to my comments I would happily move on. Your idea of insightful arguments seems to be to issue quotes from the Bible. Instead you adopt a pose of transparently phony superiority. Pathetic.

See what I mean I ask you one thing are you going to be civil and this is what I get.

Thanks but no thanks. If you want to read my discussions with others to see my answers fine but if you can't be civil then I'm done with you.

Like I said; "I give up, you win, I've never read such insightful arguments in my life." ;-)

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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/9/2014 12:33:46 PM

Milesnmiles

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
nope, just deriding those who have no idea that uncomprehension is a word, and that a mispelling the word statement makes them lose all connections with cogent discourse.

Oh really, I've been wrong before. I didn't find it in the dictionaries I looked it up in, perhaps you could tell where you found it. ;-)

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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/9/2014 12:57:15 PM

MsMJAY

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quote:

If I steal your ID and run up big debit in your name, you might have a real hard proving it wasn't you but the simple truth is it wasn't you.

Now remind me again, how many of those "Crusades" did Jesus lead or perhaps you can show me the scripture where Jesus said; "go forth and kill the infidels".

Perhaps it is you that has never looked in to what it means to be a Christian and have just been taking other peoples word for it. ;-)

Christianity is not about following the teachings of Christ. It is about accepting Him as your savior. Christianity recognizes Jesus as God. Salvation= (Admit you are sinner. Believe that Jesus died for you. Confess Christ as your Saviour) It is much easier to worship Jesus as a God than it is to actually follow Him as a living breathing teacher. That is why Christianity actually follows the teachings of Paul not Jesus. (and no, they did not teach the same thing.)

As long as these people who led the Crusades went through the ABC's of salvation then they were indeed Christians according to Christian teachings.

< Message edited by MsMJAY -- 1/9/2014 1:11:01 PM >

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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/9/2014 1:02:48 PM

mnottertail

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Maybe read the responses in my posts before apppending ascerbic wittlesscisms to them.

Nevertheless:

Compound words are two little words which are put together to make one larger word. The large word retains the original meanings of the small words – it’s just more expressive and less wieldy than using the words separately.
The really cool thing about compound words is that they’re flexible and changeable. If you find yourself in desperate need of a word which doesn’t exist in English, you’re able to make one up and call it a compound word.
There are three varieties of compound words: closed, hyphenated, and open.

Since you do not know, obviously, uncomprehend is a word, and the appropriate appending of the suffix -ion, -tion & -sion, represents the act, result or state of something done.
so lets see what we got...

The negative prefix un- attaches chiefly to adjectives (unable, unclean, unequal, unripe, unsafe) and participles used as adjectives (unfeeling, unflinching, unfinished, unsaid), and less frequently to nouns (unbelief, unconcern, unrest). Sometimes the noun form of an adjective with the un- prefix has the prefix in-, as in inability, inequality, injustice, and instability. A few stems appear with both prefixes with distinctions of meaning. Inhuman means "brutal, monstrous," while unhuman means "not of human form, superhuman." · When used with adjectives, un- often has a sense distinct from that of non-. Non- picks out the set of things that are not in the category denoted by the stem to which it is attached, whereas un- picks out properties unlike those of the typical examples of the category. Thus nonmilitary personnel are those who are not members of the military, whereas someone who is unmilitary is unlike a typical soldier in dress, habits, or attitudes.
un (here I use it in the sense of not capable of) comprehen(d) sion (the active state you found yourself in).

I expect since it was not common in American dialect, but very common in real English.....I could have hypenated the un-, but since you are demonstrably incapable of comprending (because you desire to be obtuse) it won't increase your ability to comprehend plain and simple English.

Soory, can't help you, I have shown you common usage of it, go read. Learn something.

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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/9/2014 1:48:28 PM

VideoAdminChi

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On that note, let's move along from the language lesson.

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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/9/2014 3:32:49 PM

Phydeaux

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMJAY

quote:

If I steal your ID and run up big debit in your name, you might have a real hard proving it wasn't you but the simple truth is it wasn't you.

Now remind me again, how many of those "Crusades" did Jesus lead or perhaps you can show me the scripture where Jesus said; "go forth and kill the infidels".

Perhaps it is you that has never looked in to what it means to be a Christian and have just been taking other peoples word for it. ;-)

Christianity is not about following the teachings of Christ. It is about accepting Him as your savior. Christianity recognizes Jesus as God. Salvation= (Admit you are sinner. Believe that Jesus died for you. Confess Christ as your Saviour) It is much easier to worship Jesus as a God than it is to actually follow Him as a living breathing teacher. That is why Christianity actually follows the teachings of Paul not Jesus. (and no, they did not teach the same thing.)

As long as these people who led the Crusades went through the ABC's of salvation then they were indeed Christians according to Christian teachings.

Well that's a bit of a sticky wicket.
What you are preaching is protestant theology. There is nowhere in the bible that says "accept jesus as your personal lord and savior"

There are verses that say - unless a man be born again, he shall not enter the kingdom of heaven.
But probably the most definitive verse - you shall know they are Christians by their love.

Catholics say that what you do is as relevant as what you say you believe.

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Post #: 175

RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/9/2014 3:48:17 PM

Milesnmiles

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMJAY
The Israelites said God told them to invade other lands, kill everyone than take the property for themselves. Christianity celebrates this as God giving his people victory. It still meant the genocide of the Canaanites the Hittites, the Amalekites, etc. Christianity teaches that this genocide was God ordained.

None of us are innocent. (There is none righteous no not one. Romans 3:10) But it is quite a tap dance to say that because they were killing their own children the Israelites were justified in killing them AND their children (except the hot young virgins) and THIS is God ordained?

Yes, none of us are innocent and that is why we all are in line to die.

But these "innocent" Canaanites should been allowed to continue to burn their Children alive. Yeah makes sense to me.

Yes in some cases God authorized the killing of their children as well but not to burn them alive.

quote:

Sarah was pimped out by her own husband, twice

Really, tell me please who she had sex with?

quote:

Rahab was a whore who assisted in the genocide of her own people in exchange for her own life. (She is considered a hero.)

A whore? God and Christ forgive don't you? In exchange for her own life? If her "people", that she was living with, had found out she would have been put to death. And this "foreign Whore" was also was allowed by God to be an ancestor of the Christ because she sided with God's people.

quote:

Ruth became a beggar because her husband died and her story is about her marrying well.

No, her story is about a foreign women who gave up everything she had, out of love for her mother-in-law, and went with her back to Israel and became a worshiper of God and she too became an ancestor of the Christ.

quote:

Shipirah and Puah were slaves

Yes, in fact all of Israel were slaves in Egypt at the time and yet they risked their lives to defy the now nameless king and save the Israelite children and God blessed them and their names are known and honored down to this day.

quote:

The widow of Zarpheth was poor and destitute and left to fend for herself (Yes, I know God helped her. I never said GOD mistreated women.

I never said you did but yes god helped her.

quote:

Exodus 21 instructs fathers to sell their daughter then “redeem her” if she’s not sexing her husband in a satisfactory way.

The Bible does not instruct fathers to sell their daughters but gives rules to govern it if they did.

quote:

If a woman could not “prove” she was a virgin on her wedding night her husband could have her put to death.

If God's laws were followed no women would ever have to suffer this punishment.

quote:

Inheritances went to the closest male relative (females were SOL)

And for the most part still do but then you might to take a look at this, Numbers 27:1-11

quote:

If an engaged or married woman was raped and did not scream loud enough she could be stoned along with her rapist.

And yet if she did scream or was in in the field and so could not be heard, she was exonerated and the man was put to death.

quote:

If she was not engaged or married the rapist just paid her father and she was forced to marry her rapist.

And he will not be allowed to divorce her all his days. I don't know, that somehow seems to be a fitting punishment.

quote:

women were forced to drink poison if their husband thought they had cheated on him (Even though he could have 400 wives and 300 concubines if he could afford to buy them all.

No, it was not poison, it was called bitter water and did not cause death and may not have any effect at at all on the woman. Yes, polygamy for men was allowed but regulated under the law

quote:

Numbers 31 the Medianite virgin women were taken as sex slaves. (the Israelites said God ordained it)

Sex slaves? as such there was no such thing in the nation of Israel. Also in reading the account I didn't see where "God ordained it".

quote:

Women were given away as prizes Judges 1:12

Yep, part of the national lottery.

quote:

Offered as sacrifice Judges 11:29

Have you even read the account?

quote:

Gang raped, mutilated and murdered after being given by her own husbands- Judges 19:22

And this was ordered by God?

quote:

All of the acts were free will.

Yes.

quote:

But a great many of them are still condoned and justified by most Christian sects. (the genocide I mentioned earlier, the stonings that took place under OT law, women being treated like second class citizens)

I only condone and justify what God okayed.
What you call genocide might such if done by man alone but when God does it you must remember;
1) All men will die sooner or later
2) God is a perfect judge and can perfectly judge one or a million in need of immediate execution.
3) All those dead will be given a resurrection back to life and given a second chance at life
As for the stonings, quite frankly if we had more stonings now a days there would likely be less crime.
As for women being "second class citizens", are you really saying on a internet site that advocates D/s, even M/s that the submissives here are being treated like "second class citizens"? Yes, women in the Bible were to be submissive to their husband but how does that make them "second class citizens"?

quote:

Anyone who believes that Christianity did not stem from a violent brutal history either has not read the Bible or is in denial. The violence was definitely not what Jesus preached or taught; but when we call the Old Testament our "Tutor that led us to Christ" we are alluding to very bloody, violent and brutal history.

Actually I have read the Bible and know quite well what is in it. I have read it several times have even read different translations. I have read studied and cross referenced it. The question is not whether the the Bible contains accounts that are very bloody, violent and brutal because it does, because all of human history is very bloody, violent and brutal and the Bible is a truthful slice of that history and so the real question is what God's role in the history of mankind is and the Bible points out that God has never stopped working to try and save at least a portion of mankind from self-destruction while he worked out man's salvation.

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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/9/2014 4:15:50 PM

Milesnmiles

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMJAY
Christianity is not about following the teachings of Christ.

Really then why call it "Christianity"?

quote:

Christianity recognizes Jesus as God.

Then how come Jesus never once said; "I am God"? Jesus said many times I am God's Son but never ever once said: "I am God".

quote:

It is about accepting Him as your savior.
Salvation= (Admit you are sinner. Believe that Jesus died for you. Confess Christ as your Saviour) It is much easier to worship Jesus as a God than it is to actually follow Him as a living breathing teacher.

Admit it, you've been reading those little "Salvation" pamphlets again.

quote:

That is why Christianity actually follows the teachings of Paul not Jesus. (and no, they did not teach the same thing.)

The Bible is a coherent whole and so both Paul and Jesus teach the same thing, God's word.

quote:

As long as these people who led the Crusades went through the ABC's of salvation then they were indeed Christians according to Christian teachings.

Yeah right, let's all throw away our Bibles and run out and get one of those little "Salvation" pamphlets, run through the "ABC's of salvation", then kill a commie and a Gay for Christ and join the local Baptist bowling league.

On second thought I think I'll keep my Bible and follow the teachings of God and his Son Jesus Christ.

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Post #: 177

RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/9/2014 4:18:06 PM

Milesnmiles

Posts: 1349
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Maybe read the responses in my posts before apppending ascerbic wittlesscisms to them.

Nevertheless:

Compound words are two little words which are put together to make one larger word. The large word retains the original meanings of the small words – it’s just more expressive and less wieldy than using the words separately.
The really cool thing about compound words is that they’re flexible and changeable. If you find yourself in desperate need of a word which doesn’t exist in English, you’re able to make one up and call it a compound word.
There are three varieties of compound words: closed, hyphenated, and open.

Since you do not know, obviously, uncomprehend is a word, and the appropriate appending of the suffix -ion, -tion & -sion, represents the act, result or state of something done.
so lets see what we got...

The negative prefix un- attaches chiefly to adjectives (unable, unclean, unequal, unripe, unsafe) and participles used as adjectives (unfeeling, unflinching, unfinished, unsaid), and less frequently to nouns (unbelief, unconcern, unrest). Sometimes the noun form of an adjective with the un- prefix has the prefix in-, as in inability, inequality, injustice, and instability. A few stems appear with both prefixes with distinctions of meaning. Inhuman means "brutal, monstrous," while unhuman means "not of human form, superhuman." · When used with adjectives, un- often has a sense distinct from that of non-. Non- picks out the set of things that are not in the category denoted by the stem to which it is attached, whereas un- picks out properties unlike those of the typical examples of the category. Thus nonmilitary personnel are those who are not members of the military, whereas someone who is unmilitary is unlike a typical soldier in dress, habits, or attitudes.
un (here I use it in the sense of not capable of) comprehen(d) sion (the active state you found yourself in).

I expect since it was not common in American dialect, but very common in real English.....I could have hypenated the un-, but since you are demonstrably incapable of comprending (because you desire to be obtuse) it won't increase your ability to comprehend plain and simple English.

Soory, can't help you, I have shown you common usage of it, go read. Learn something.