RE: Behaving 'as if' you feel submissive when you really dont.

RE: Behaving 'as if' you feel submissive when you really dont. (Full Version)

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LadiesBladewing -> RE: Behaving 'as if' you feel submissive when you really dont. (7/6/2006 3:22:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sirandlittle1 I explained that were she 100% submissive 100% of the time, she'd probably be called a slave. Some of us, just dont cut the grade like that. I know from many threads, that the consensus of opinion seems to be, do it to please him, if you cant do that, do it because you agreed to obey. If its the latter, that is by my definition, 'acting as if'. My premise is, that not only do i think this way, i suspect other submissives do this too. Nobody is perfect. There are going to be days, when your tired, when the kids have worn you down to your knees, that you feel much less submissive. What do other people think? If you experience these days, what do you do, to continue submitting, if not 'act' ? littleones Hon, even the best and most dedicated servants (the ones I think you would consider slaves, though we don't use that term here) have times when they struggle with their submission -- shoot, I spent 2 years in the monastary and 10 years in service and STILL had days when I struggled with my submission. When that happens, one of the greatest gifts we can give those whom we serve is to continue to behave as if we're not having an internal conflict with our submission. Even today, as a pastoral care provider, there are times that I just "don't want to", and it's really hard to do the things that I need to do to care for my community -- and the only way to get through it is what a dear friend of mine in the magickal community called "fake it till you make it". I get up, I pretend that I'm excited about listening to and trying to sort out another day's drama, and do it -- and try to never let on to my clients that I'm struggling. It's the same way in service -- I like our servants to tell me when they're having a hard time, but sometimes there's nothing I can do to help -- it's an internal process... part of the learning curve where it gets a bit sharp at times and we question who and what we are. The best thing I can do for them is to recognize that they're trying, even though they're not "feelin' it". Sometimes, I even appreciate more that they're doing that, because it shows real committment to their service that they don't get whiney and crabby -- they just keep plugging. ZWD

Mercnbeth -> RE: Behaving 'as if' you feel submissive when you really dont. (7/7/2006 7:23:05 AM)
quote: there is an analogy that comes to mind in dealing with the concept that regardless of the fact of entering in a relationship which on the whole is completely satisfying and fulfilling does not mean that there are not times that it is just plain work, and that is the analogy of motherhood. Most of us who have born and raised unmentionables love our unmentionables, are enriched and fulfilled to be a mother, but that does not change the fact that at times, we wish we weren't the mom, heart felt, We see that the thread pointed to this issue was pulled. At the risk of this also coming under scrutiny I'll address this here. I did it yesterday, but being long winded, I got the killer "Timed Out" message when I hit the ok button. There is a huge difference in the scenario you cite. Ideally you hope to retire from the day to day "dominance" over your replicants. The whole plan is to one day set them free. There is usually no joint effort or common goal between you and your replicants. There is constant debate, especially with teenage replicants, about "who knows best". These facts generates frustration and conflict. No such conflict should exist between a Master and his slave. As a Master and slave, the relationship is the common goal. There are responsibilities and accountabilities on both sides. My concern about this thread would be a naive new dominant reading it would think that he should set his alarm clock for 3:00am and wake his sleeping slave to get him a drink to "test" her complete submission. Well that's just idiotic. And in my case, by the time I woke beth and she was "functional" I could get up brew tea and have it iced. The other side of this is that the real answer should be "so what?" There is no award for always being in the "slave mode"; whatever that is. There is no requirement that 24/7 requires 24/7 submissive thought. I'd agree with the representation of most that that mindset is rare. The same holds with the dominant. Living 24/7 making all the decisions and setting all the rules is not for everyone. It doesn't have to be, and it shouldn't need to be required. The bottom line is compatibility, coming from complete disclosure and ongoing honest communication. It's not work! If it becomes or feels like work it's time to communicate again.

heartfeltsub -> RE: Behaving 'as if' you feel submissive when you really dont. (7/7/2006 9:39:11 AM)
Thank you for replying Merc, and i understand what you are saying and i can see where you see differences in my analogy. i hope no offense was taken with the previous message as there was none meant.

agirl -> RE: Behaving 'as if' you feel submissive when you really dont. (7/7/2006 9:39:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sirandlittle1 Ive had a hiccup this week. Im being a rather crap submissive. During our conversation about this. I mentioned that because my feeling anti is higher than normal, im trying extra hard. For eg. we are in bed, im nearly falling asleep, and im told to get up and get him a drink. Automatic thought = 'get it yourself!' what i do is act as if im feeling submissive, and go and get the drink. Result, pleased Sir and im allowed to fall asleep. But sometimes, its easier to 'act as if' than others. When things are just flowing, D/s life is a breeze. Full of fun, growth, laugher and love. Then its easy to submit, and i dont have to 'act as if' at all. My Sir, has taken offense at my description to him of what is going on inside my head. The word 'acting' has been a thorn in his ear. His suggestion being, that a submissive, shouldnt have to 'act' at all. I explained that were she 100% submissive 100% of the time, she'd probably be called a slave. Some of us, just dont cut the grade like that. I know from many threads, that the consensus of opinion seems to be, do it to please him, if you cant do that, do it because you agreed to obey. If its the latter, that is by my definition, 'acting as if'. My premise is, that not only do i think this way, i suspect other submissives do this too. Nobody is perfect. There are going to be days, when your tired, when the kids have worn you down to your knees, that you feel much less submissive. What do other people think? If you experience these days, what do you do, to continue submitting, if not 'act' ? littleone This week, has been particularly difficult for me to submit. Im making stupid mistakes Hello Sirandlittle, I haven't read any responses to your initial post , so forgive me if I repeat any thoughts or comments from others. I have mentioned before that I have chosen to live as a slave, despite not being submissive. When I do as I'm asked it isn't necessarily acting, per se......it's keeping to something that I agreed to. How much easier is it to do as I'm asked... when it's something I WANT to do, something I have the energy for, something I don't mind too much, something I'm ambivilant about, when I'm in a good mood, when I'm not tired, when I feel like giving? In all THOSE times I'm not submitting very much at all.....I'm just not bending my will to his as much as those times when I really DON'T wish to do as he asks. I have no real desire to serve ( apart from serving myself , as my Master lightheartedly but truthfully points out to me). Does it matter to him whether my inner desire is driving me to do his bidding or whether I am doing it JUST because he asked me to ( with my internal dialogue cursing him)?..... Not usually, no. If he wants something and I don't mind........ frankly, I'm not submitting in the least. The times when I seriously face my slave status...is when I don't WANT to obey him, when I'd rather do anything else other than obey him, when I don't LIKE his decisions or requests. Exchanging power isn't necessarily about submitting. Regards, agirl Edited to add....When you submit with your inner voice screaming fuck THIS.......I'ts not acting .....it's actually BEING submissive.

ClassAct2006 -> RE: Behaving 'as if' you feel submissive when you really dont. (7/7/2006 9:49:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RavenMuse Ok going to disagree with the two responces I see so far. I don't think there is anything wrong here, nor do I see you as being a 'crap submissive' Sure it is nice when everything is flowing and going easy, you do things to make him happy, that makes you happy and everyone is having a good time. Submission isn't just for the easy times, sure there are times where you are tired and grouchy. Thats quite normal, you are human. Sure you THOUGHT "Go get it yourself".... but what did you DO? You chose to submit, just like in the begining of your relationship you made the choise to submit. In many ways your submission in times where it isn't easy, where you don't feel like it but you CHOOSE to do so anyhow is MORE valuable, not less. It makes you a better submissive, not a worse one. Small picture: for that moment you didn't want to, but you did it anyhow. Big picture: You BOTH get what you need from the relationship, not just in the easy bits but also in the hard bits. From your posts I am sure your Sir is there for you when you need him, even where He is tired and grouchy. You both put in the effort to maintain your responcibilitys in the relationship, thats what makes it work. I've found as above it's more appreciated when I submit when I don't particularly want to than when I do. But the point is you do need to feel appreciated. So if someone dominant just never gives any feedback or thanks or indeed makes unreasonable demands then you need to be discussing those issues with him otherwise ultimately you won't be satisfied in the relationship, if you're anything like me. I think there's something entirely different - when you don't feel submissive to someone ever and act as if you were and then it's as bad as when I've been with a non dominant man who's pretending to be dominant, doesn't work at all.

RavenMuse -> RE: Behaving 'as if' you feel submissive when you really dont. (7/7/2006 9:56:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ClassAct2006 I think there's something entirely different - when you don't feel submissive to someone ever and act as if you were and then it's as bad as when I've been with a non dominant man who's pretending to be dominant, doesn't work at all. I think we are on slightly diffrent wavelengths here. I see the OP as saying she felt like not doing the action, not saying she didn't want to make him happy.... She was being a submissive, not acting, but had to push a bit to compleat the task asked of her.... the REASON she did push was because she submitted. You can still feel submissive dispite feeling that you would rather not, if given the choise, do whatever it is asked of you.

agirl -> RE: Behaving 'as if' you feel submissive when you really dont. (7/7/2006 10:19:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RavenMuse quote: ORIGINAL: ClassAct2006 I think there's something entirely different - when you don't feel submissive to someone ever and act as if you were and then it's as bad as when I've been with a non dominant man who's pretending to be dominant, doesn't work at all. I think we are on slightly diffrent wavelengths here. I see the OP as saying she felt like not doing the action, not saying she didn't want to make him happy.... She was being a submissive, not acting, but had to push a bit to compleat the task asked of her.... the REASON she did push was because she submitted. You can still feel submissive dispite feeling that you would rather not, if given the choise, do whatever it is asked of you. Absolutely........(my Master calls me revolting at times)......It doesn't bother him either way..... If I do it happily, willingly, it gets done. If it's done with a scowl on my face and my tongue firmly bitten, it gets done. If I revolt verbally, I get beaten.........and it gets done. All the same to him.....lol Regards, agirl

talibahh -> RE: Behaving 'as if' you feel submissive when you really dont. (7/7/2006 7:25:41 PM)
*ok little1, i think my first post didn't really answer your question, so after reading your second post... here goes...* quote: ORIGINAL: Sirandlittle1 My only agenda, was do others act? *Simply, no!* i do not act at being submissive. It is a part of who i am. Just sometimes the level (i know some here hate that word) of submission i feel may differ. (if that makes sense...) ie. i don't feel 100% submissive, 100% of the time, nor does my Master expect me too. Thank God He is realistic in His expectations of me! And after discussing this thread with Him, He told me: "i know youre a true slave and thats enough then...right?" so then, thats more than enough for me. Nothing else matters but my Master's opinion and what He thinks of me. i don't need to be validated by anyone else here, who it sometimes seem, want to make it a competition on who is the better slave/sub, because we are each different and unique as each of our relationships and circumstances are different and unique. Does it mean im not submissive i im acting? Something only you can really answer, and i think you go on to answer. Knowing you are a switch must have some influence on you in your submission, so that's ok, but something you need to express and work on with your Sir, as i am sure you already are. (not meaning to sound patronizing) I particularly found interesting, the comment that his objection, was to the word 'act', **again, something you need to discuss with Him, but i can only guess its because He wants you to enjoy and be* submissive, not act like you have to be one (if that makes sense)*** if i substituted this for behave, it'd be ok. Thats absolutely true. But wouldnt substituting the word, of itself, be part of the act? Coz i do feel like i act. A lot! And i do question a lot, if im on the right path. The coment about i should question my expectations. Always. We are talking about this together, obviously. But for a block of 3 nights now, he's in at 3am, im off at 7.30am, so no talk time. But we'll get back to it. And im sure he will be reading this thread. i can understand you reaching out to others, to see if others feel and/or experience the same when your Sir is not around so much... i know things sometimes seem harder if my Master is not around as much for whatever reason. The best thing you can do, is what you plan on doing (IMHO) talk with your Sir when you both can... and best of luck with it too. [:)] Beth's response as a slave. That's nirvana slavedom for her. Clearly, the womans complete. Someone made the response that 'some people get into this, coz they think it looks like fun. They do it more and more, then before they know it, their in it over their necks and carrying on about how hard or something or other. This sorta shit, i object to. So judgemental and grandiose. Nah, dont like that. Agreed! This irked me too, and i let it... so i spoke with my Master, and as stated above... it doesn't matter to me now... He knows what and who i am, and thats all that matters... so now i simply shrug this off... I am not a submissive. I am a switch. i could be totally wrong, but here may be your answer to why you sometimes feel like you act... but acknowledging it and being willing to work on it, is the first step in solving your problem... with your Sir...(IMHO) However. I am in a D/s relationship with a Dom and have agreed to be his submissive. And i am sure with work and communication in partnership with your Sir, you will (in time) be the best submissive for Him that you can be... and thats all anyone can ask... for you to try your best and aim at improving (IMHO anyway)... i wish you the best of luck... and dont be too hard on yourself... you're not alone in having times when things aren't going as easy or smoothly as we'd like... most people have bad days... i hope this helps some... *hugs,* *tali [:-]*

talibahh -> RE: Behaving 'as if' you feel submissive when you really dont. (7/7/2006 7:34:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: there is an analogy that comes to mind in dealing with the concept that regardless of the fact of entering in a relationship which on the whole is completely satisfying and fulfilling does not mean that there are not times that it is just plain work, and that is the analogy of motherhood. Most of us who have born and raised unmentionables love our unmentionables, are enriched and fulfilled to be a mother, but that does not change the fact that at times, we wish we weren't the mom, heart felt, We see that the thread pointed to this issue was pulled. At the risk of this also coming under scrutiny I'll address this here. I did it yesterday, but being long winded, I got the killer "Timed Out" message when I hit the ok button. There is a huge difference in the scenario you cite. Ideally you hope to retire from the day to day "dominance" over your replicants. The whole plan is to one day set them free. There is usually no joint effort or common goal between you and your replicants. There is constant debate, especially with teenage replicants, about "who knows best". These facts generates frustration and conflict. No such conflict should exist between a Master and his slave. As a Master and slave, the relationship is the common goal. There are responsibilities and accountabilities on both sides. My concern about this thread would be a naive new dominant reading it would think that he should set his alarm clock for 3:00am and wake his sleeping slave to get him a drink to "test" her complete submission. Well that's just idiotic. And in my case, by the time I woke beth and she was "functional" I could get up brew tea and have it iced. The other side of this is that the real answer should be "so what?" There is no award for always being in the "slave mode"; whatever that is. There is no requirement that 24/7 requires 24/7 submissive thought. I'd agree with the representation of most that that mindset is rare. The same holds with the dominant. Living 24/7 making all the decisions and setting all the rules is not for everyone. It doesn't have to be, and it shouldn't need to be required. The bottom line is compatibility, coming from complete disclosure and ongoing honest communication. It's not work! If it becomes or feels like work it's time to communicate again. *So well put Merc, and what i was trying to say in my first post... seems You said it better, and with all Your experience, thats not surprising!* *tali* *ownedgirlie: i love your posts... i relate well to what you say, often... i just feel like we are often on the same wavelength... thanks! [:)]* Raven: i love Your posts... You always express Yourself so well... and it's great to see things from the other side, gives me more to think about, another persepective, and i love that... thanks! [:)] *tali*

ImpGrrl -> RE: Behaving 'as if' you feel submissive when you really don't. (7/8/2006 7:05:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: feastie I also said that her dominant was behaving like a three-year-old. Far as I can tell, he's a grown man and perfectly capable of getting his own drink if his partner is sleeping. I'm sure also, they've slept together long enough, he knows when she's just about there. (snip) I don't fault the OP at all. I think she did an admirable job. I do fault her dominant, however, because I don't believe dominance excuses being inconsiderate of anyone, including one's submissive. I don't fault the OP either, but I have a problem with everyone saying her d-type was "inconsiderate". I don't know about anyone else, but when I "signed up" to serve Sir, I was fully aware that I would occasionally be inconvenienced. My job is to obey - whether I want to or not. That's what the OP did - good for her. Well done. But her d-type is acting completely within the bounds of a d/s relationship - unless her limits include being inconvenienced.

ImpGrrl -> RE: Behaving 'as if' you feel submissive when you really don't. (7/8/2006 7:18:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sirandlittle1 My only agenda, was do others act? Does it mean im not submissive i im acting? The real question is - are you overall happy with your relationship dynamic? If so - keep on keepin' on. We all have to "act as if" from time to time. If I'm cranky, I am still expected to give cheerful, or at least non-cranky, service. He doesn't expect me to want to do all the time. But he expects me to do, regardless. I never "act submissive", because my relationship is not about "feeling submissive". He asks, I obey. "Feeling submissive" is not important to either one of us. But pleasantness is. So sometimes if I'm not feeling pleasant, I have to act as if I am. I completely jive with beth's position, in that my submission isn't ever forced, and if it had to be, I'd be in the wrong dynamic. But sometimes I need to push myself to do it properly :)

peeka -> RE: Behaving 'as if' you feel submissive when you really dont. (7/8/2006 9:21:07 AM)
I've had to, well I won't say had to. It is always my choice. Being a switch, if I find a playmate I like, I will sometimes play the role of what my playmate wants/needs. Regardless of how I actually feel at that moment. This can be trying at times, especially when my urges get strong for the opposite position I'm in at that moment. It's almost like being restrained against your will and feeling like I'm about to explode.

KnightofMists -> RE: Behaving 'as if' you feel submissive when you really dont. (7/8/2006 10:27:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RavenMuse quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists If expected 100% from my girls... well I would only be setting them up to fail. OK just a picky point but one needing made given that one thing I often state in conversation and to my girl. I do expect her to try 100%....... Just some days all she has, all she can give is less than other days, but it is still 100% at that time. So long as she has tried her best she CAN NOT fail, not in My eyes. Once again knight I am struck by what wonderful girls you have. Bright, confident, excellent communicators and cute with it. Definatly a credit to you. This is a quote out of the Doctrine that my slaves live by..... The slave will always succeed when they have preformed to the following standard The slave always does their best effort to obtain the best possible of results The slave obeys the will of the Master without hesitation except to seek clarification on the Master’s will I think you will see that we are on the same page in this regards. I would note that the best effort does not mean 100% of their ability. None can maintain 100% capacity at every single moment of their life. Just like none will succeed at anything 100% of the time. When one is tired or face with other issues they may have only 80% of their capacity available. But, I do expect them to use every last part of that 80% that is available. In short using one's best effort is using all that one has available to give. I find that the most frustrated times for any person is not when they fail to achieve some goal... but when they attempt to achieve a reasonable task when only a part of their capacity is immediately available and fail at the task. A mistake some Masters make with their slaves is asking them to succeed on simple task when the capacity is not there for them. It's like asking the runner after they have just run a 26 mile marathon to do it again now and expecting the same results. They know they can run a marathon, but at that moment no matter the effort exerted... their is not enough effort to do what is normally achievable. Thank for your thoughts on the girls... I think they are pretty good myself.

CreativeDominant -> RE: Behaving 'as if' you feel submissive when you really don't. (7/8/2006 12:35:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ImpGrrl quote: ORIGINAL: feastie I also said that her dominant was behaving like a three-year-old. Far as I can tell, he's a grown man and perfectly capable of getting his own drink if his partner is sleeping. I'm sure also, they've slept together long enough, he knows when she's just about there. (snip) I don't fault the OP at all. I think she did an admirable job. I do fault her dominant, however, because I don't believe dominance excuses being inconsiderate of anyone, including one's submissive. I don't fault the OP either, but I have a problem with everyone saying her d-type was "inconsiderate". I don't know about anyone else, but when I "signed up" to serve Sir, I was fully aware that I would occasionally be inconvenienced. My job is to obey - whether I want to or not. That's what the OP did - good for her. Well done. But her d-type is acting completely within the bounds of a d/s relationship - unless her limits include being inconvenienced. Well said.

Sinergy -> RE: Behaving 'as if' you feel submissive when you really dont. (7/8/2006 6:24:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy I know this, if I were a slaveowner in ancient Rome, and if my slave were on the brink of falling asleep, I'd just get up myself and get my own drink. Actually, in Ancient Rome a person who has a slave paid a lot of money for that slave. The slaves (especially Gladiator level) were feted and cared for and provided sex partners to. She may be my "property," but a happy and contended submissive or slave is worth a lot more to me than a grudging drudge. There is another post on a "Daddy" thread. I like to dote on my submissive. I love bringing her coffee in the morning. She takes care of me, often by dropping to her knees when I get home from work, tired and cranky, and pulling Mr. Tiny out for servicing. Why would I not take care of her? Just me, could be wrong, but there you go. Sinergy

Sirandlittle1 -> RE: Behaving 'as if' you feel submissive when you really dont. (7/9/2006 8:35:54 PM)
Well after reading through this entire thread, I decided that I should respond in some way, to clear up certain things that have not been communicated clearly in the context of discussion. Firstly, when my submissive took my collar, and accepted the terms of that collar, that being to serve me, please me and obey me, then she agreed to do those things for me, and that is what I expect at all times. Secondly, I fully understand that my submissive does struggle with this on a daily basis, mainly because she displays an alpha personality to everyone else in her life apart from me, and she has been known to forget herself from time to time. This does not however excuse her agreement with me. Through the many discussions we had regarding her submission and my expectations, and of course my dominance and her expectations, we came to the conclusion that it is control over her that she most needs. She is a strong willed woman, and is always concerned that she will take over any relationship that she enters into. She has a history of this in her life and did not want this to continue, therefore seeking an alternative relationship. The reason that she took on the role of submissive, is to safeguard against her abiltiy to take over, and ultimately in her opinion, destroy her relationships. This is something I was aware of when we began our relationship, and also the reason that it has developed, grown and moved from bedroom only, to 24/7. The need for control, grew within her as the relationship grew, and therefore my need to control her grew. This is something she needs, this is something she desires, but it is always something that is difficult at times. Living 24/7 is not all peachy, we all have off days, we all get tired and we all question ourselves. It is the rewards that this life brings us that allows us to overcome these difficulties, along with clear and available lines of communication between those involved. The levels of communication needed in our lives is higher than that of any vanilla lifestyle. We talk, we discuss, we debate many things, which is the main reason I am responding here today, more for her benefit than for any other. Thirdly, the whole example of my request for a glass of water has been somewhat thrown out of context. And to those that had mentioned that a lack of information always creates a different situation, I commend you on your ability to think outside the square. It was simply an example that has been used to try and encourage discussion about others ability to act or behave submissive even when your not entirely feeling that way. It was not an example to encourage discussion about how inconsiderate I may have been, or are being towards my submissive. Finally, I would like to address that term 'act'. And quite frankly, I am offended by that term. I believe that acting is a form of deciet, therefore a form of lying and dishonesty. I would not wish for my submissive to feel the need to lie, be dishonest or in any other way decieve me into believing something that is not true. If she is feeling the need to 'act' then it is something that we shall discuss at length, to try and overcome the feelings that it creates in us both. I do not feel that she needs to 'act' although I do expect her to comply with her own agreement that she has made with me. If there are more opinions and views upon the original OP and also the second post made by littleone, then those views would be welcomed, to assist in our discussions to improve, grow and better what we have. One final note. Both my submissive and I thoroughly enjoy the life we have. We are both dedicated to it and strive to have the best we can for ourselves and for each other. We do "work" upon US, and that is why we both read from here and other such sites. This life is an ongoing continuim, and it can always be improved. As can her submission towards me, and my dominance towards her. I look forward to reading your responses. Sir

Driver1961 -> RE: Behaving 'as if' you feel submissive when you really dont. (7/11/2006 8:07:30 AM)
He enters, dips Hisw lid to Sir n little one. Nice post, makes heaps of sense to me! Your relationship may have some parallels to mine with 'Wildchild'. It is difficult to care and promote growth for My Wild when her 'alpha' type job (that she fell into!) demands managerial skills that she has never had to previously utlize nor developed! I must juxtapose D/s carefully to promote her personal growth to assist with her new position until she settles into it better. The communication is more paramount between us than ever before. The 'ACT' yes! It is an insult to read this, but I consider that it examples a lack of communication/word power skills rather than lack of submission. Warm regards to you both. Driver1961, Sir to His loving Wildchild.

thetammyjo -> RE: Behaving 'as if' you feel submissive when you really dont. (7/11/2006 9:23:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy I know this, if I were a slaveowner in ancient Rome, and if my slave were on the brink of falling asleep, I'd just get up myself and get my own drink. Actually, in Ancient Rome a person who has a slave paid a lot of money for that slave. The slaves (especially Gladiator level) were feted and cared for and provided sex partners to. Sinergy raises eyebrows Most slaves were pretty cheap and their lives were treated pretty cheaply. Most slaves were captives and while Rome was expanding (for most of her history) there were plenty of those. By the first century BCE slaves were so common that many writers comment that every Roman has at least one -- likely an exaggeration but it reflects how numerous and how cheap they were. Homeborn slaves and generational slaves could be more expensive but treatment varied greatly. As for gladiators, some were slaves, few won their freedom though and when they did they often turned around and worked the entertainment complex which gladiators became part of. Some gladiators though were criminals and should not be considered the same status as slaves. Overall the group "gladiator" was a specia and small subset of the slave population. That said, I do actually use the model of the upperclass household valet/secretary from Imperial Rome as one of my models for how Ds works in my household. But this has been the subject of lectures I've given at two conventions and for one organization's regular monthly workshops. I won't go into it all here cause you'd lack my lovely graphics.

LeatherBentOne -> RE: Behaving 'as if' you feel submissive when you really dont. (7/11/2006 9:31:53 AM)
There's nothing wrong with a sub who is obedient. Notice obedience is an action word. Let's just say that subs obey where or not they want to and drop the "acting" word as a descriptor. Then everyone is a happy camper. In addtion, Im of the understanding that a slave has limits but no rights unless her/his limits are invaded and a submissive has the right to negotiation leading to consent or no consent on an arbitrary basis. LeatherBentOne

LotusSong -> RE: Behaving 'as if' you feel submissive when you really dont. (7/11/2006 12:56:16 PM)
Faking submission is the D/s counterpart to a vannila faking an orgasm. You do it for the same reason. Get 'er done, Lotus :)

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