RE: Homeless in the lifestyle

RE: Homeless in the lifestyle (Full Version)

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kdsub -> RE: Homeless in the lifestyle (1/10/2014 4:27:03 PM)
Rawni... I never think I have all the answers...but in many if not most of the cases you speak of there is no homelessness... of course there are long term mentally ill veterans but even most of them that are long term homeless refuse help.

Rawni -> RE: Homeless in the lifestyle (1/10/2014 4:28:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Rawni... I never think I have all the answers...but in many if not most of the cases you speak of there is no homelessness... of course there are long term mentally ill veterans but even most of them that are long term homeless refuse help. Prove that statement.

angelikaJ -> RE: Homeless in the lifestyle (1/10/2014 4:31:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub I did not say otherwise...I was just stating what I felt was the most prevalent reason for homelessness. I am all for better mental illness treatment but that is a separate issue. Those severely mentally ill have on the whole had opportunities for treatment... such as being picked up by police because of their actions. Now if we had the proper treatment facilities we could keep the majority off the streets. As for the rest there will be times of temporary homelessness for those other reasons you speak of but their is no excuse for that homelessness to be long term. But as in any discussion of this kind and any law or safety net you must speak in generalities and majorities not particularities to have even a chance of working... That means to prevalent reason for homelessness must receive the most attention and weight. Butch quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub I hope you will not take my comment as a personal attack because it is not meant to be. In my opinion there is no excuse for extended homelessness in America. Those that find themselves in that situation have only themselves to blame. I understand there are many reasons to be homeless and I’d bet the most prevalent is drug and/or alcohol abuse. I do feel sorry for the homeless and hope they get the aid they need but those that are homeless for years and years choose by their own actions to be that way and deserve no sympathy from me. Now when they decide to help themselves then they deserve a helping hand to recovery. Butch How about the fact that affordable housing is not easy to come by? It makes being housed once you have become homeless very difficult. I don't take your comment as an attack, I just happen to think it is ignorant (as in you just don't know). http://nchv.org/index.php/news/media/background_and_statistics/

kdsub -> RE: Homeless in the lifestyle (1/10/2014 4:35:28 PM)
That is silly to say because you cannot prove otherwise as well... we just both have our opinions by what we know from personal experience and what we see on the news and around town. I have helped once... to go give food and blankets to the homeless on a cold winter night... All were offered shelter, a shelter where they would be evaluated and offered assistance... none that night at least availed themselves of the offer. Now I know a small sample like that does not tell the whole story but it does form opinions. Butch

Rawni -> RE: Homeless in the lifestyle (1/10/2014 4:42:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub That is silly to say because you cannot prove otherwise as well... we just both have our opinions by what we know from personal experience and what we see on the news and around town. I have helped once... to go give food and blankets to the homeless on a cold winter night... All were offered shelter, a shelter where they would be evaluated and offered assistance... none that night at least availed themselves of the offer. Now I know a small sample like that does not tell the whole story but it does form opinions. Butch I worked for years in this. I would dare say my experience is a bit more than reading the fucking news. You cannot justify your comments because you have no idea how other than the news and your opinion. I have years of research... older for sure, but I know how to get it. You don't just read the work of someone else. You get in the trenches... you get out on the street... you go to web sites galore that handle many things, the ill, the vets, the mentally ill. You get your hands dirty. You get to talk to shelter directors, doctors, police, senators, representatives of all sorts, advocates. You ask about a hundred questions. Then you might have some idea of the scope and breath of what you so causally express an opinion on. Now... one sector of those needing assistance cannot be compared to others. There are many reasons, many causes and after being homeless for so long... that in itself can lead to mistrust, emotional issues etc. Many do not trust that they will be safe with strangers and those aren't always the mentally ill! Did you know that many think that they don't deserve help? Did you know that many have accepted their lot in life, go to hopelessness and a night or two of ease would break their resolve to fend for themselves.. and they can't allow that because that ease will make it even harder to go back to what they face day after day, year after year sometimes? You have no clue. Would you like one? We live in the same state. Shall we take some walks?

angelikaJ -> RE: Homeless in the lifestyle (1/10/2014 4:43:48 PM)
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=myths+about+homelessness It isn't that they are refusing shelter. They are afraid of shelters. They know people who were assaulted in shelters or had their few belongings robbed. They feel safer where they are than in a shelter. I knew a woman who would not eat at the local "soup kitchen"-type place because someone had been caught urinating into the oatmeal. edit: typo

kdsub -> RE: Homeless in the lifestyle (1/10/2014 4:46:19 PM)
No we don't need to have the same experiences to have opinions... you are arguing thinking that I am against help to the homeless... I am not... I just think they need to want the help before money is thrown away on them. The money needs to be spent on those that it can help.

kdsub -> RE: Homeless in the lifestyle (1/10/2014 4:50:24 PM)
You do have a point there...here in St Louis we have even had an administrator murdered by a homeless man she was giving shelter to. I saw however where the special shelters set up for the cold wave here had police protection. But this is not always the case... but even if they did not want shelter they could avail themselves of section 8 housing and the like... I know there is a waiting list but it is a start... AND like I said I am all for help for those that want to help themselves.

Rawni -> RE: Homeless in the lifestyle (1/10/2014 4:51:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub No we don't need to have the same experiences to have opinions... you are arguing thinking that I am against help to the homeless... I am not... I just think they need to want the help before money is thrown away on them. The money needs to be spent on those that it can help. You really going to continue this? Okay... If I can deal with ignorant senators, I can deal with you. Do not assume you understand what I argue here. I am not thinking you don't want to help the homeless. I am stating that you don't know the issues of the homeless to give a decent opinion. To lay blame as you are, with your lack of experience, judgement and isolated understanding of a situation, you are blowing something out your ass with those opinions. We don't need people such as yourself out there helping until you actually know what the fuck you are doing. Now you are spreading opinion that sounds more like a lie to me because you don't get it and have formed opinions that are harmful to those you say you were willing to assist. You want to assist... I will help. Shut the fuck up or learn what you wish to take part in.

kdsub -> RE: Homeless in the lifestyle (1/10/2014 4:54:52 PM)
Rawni... why get so indignant if you don't want an answer then don't ask... then get all high and mighty as if I am privileged to talk with you. I would like a discussion without all the needless aggression and who knows my mind has been changed many times here on CM

OsideGirl -> RE: Homeless in the lifestyle (1/10/2014 4:57:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub You do have a point there...here in St Louis we have even had an administrator murdered by a homeless man she was giving shelter to. I saw however where the special shelters set up for the cold wave here had police protection. But this is not always the case... but even if they did not want shelter they could avail themselves of section 8 housing and the like... I know there is a waiting list but it is a start... AND like I said I am all for help for those that want to help themselves. San Diego has some of the best homeless programs in the country. Father Joe's Villages provides meals, schooling, temporary shelters and starter housing. Alpha Project provides job training. They're reknown for their services and I can't imagine any one saying that they're worried for their safety in the programs. One of the issues that they did discover is that the homeless were not allowed to bring their shopping carts full of possessions into the shelters and that's why they wouldn't go. However, they have started a storage system to deal with that here.

Rawni -> RE: Homeless in the lifestyle (1/10/2014 4:58:23 PM)
You haven't listened not only to me, but to others. Your opinion is set. I offered a way to change it. You don't need to do that... it is only your opinion. Okay... so be it. Indignant? LOL... You know me, I cuss. I also see a falsehood and will jump on it right away. Call it a kink of mine. I like the public to know the truth and you aren't spouting it. I told you... you want to have a sit down, you want to do a walk about, you want to learn... be ready to listen and learn.. not keep spouting.

Rawni -> RE: Homeless in the lifestyle (1/10/2014 4:59:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OsideGirl quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub You do have a point there...here in St Louis we have even had an administrator murdered by a homeless man she was giving shelter to. I saw however where the special shelters set up for the cold wave here had police protection. But this is not always the case... but even if they did not want shelter they could avail themselves of section 8 housing and the like... I know there is a waiting list but it is a start... AND like I said I am all for help for those that want to help themselves. San Diego has some of the best homeless programs in the country. Father Joe's Villages provides meals, schooling, temporary shelters and starter housing. Alpha Project provides job training. They're reknown for their services and I can't imagine any one saying that they're worried for their safety in the programs. One of the issues that they did discover is that the homeless were not allowed to bring their shopping carts full of possessions into the shelters and that's why they wouldn't go. However, they have started a storage system to deal with that here. The problem is, there are far too few safe shelters and storage for belongings.

kdsub -> RE: Homeless in the lifestyle (1/10/2014 5:07:36 PM)
I do appreciate the sacrifices these people make to help and admire them...I'll bet they too wish scammers would not try to take advantage of programs that those that are serious need.

ivone57 -> RE: Homeless in the lifestyle (1/10/2014 5:18:07 PM)
for years i lived one paycheck away from homelessness with three kids..... living paycheck to paycheck sucked.... luckily i was never without a job.... but as i said i was living one pay period away from homelessness.... i feel sorry for homeless people... do i give them money on the street corners, sometimes... depends on the person... when they closed down all the psych. hospitals what else was the mentally ill going to do but go homeless... we need to open them up again and get some of the homeless off the street... they dont have a choice... they cant hold down jobs, hence they cannot afford even something in the ghetto... its a whole sad situation....

angelikaJ -> RE: Homeless in the lifestyle (1/10/2014 5:33:50 PM)
I am not being indignant. I stated that you have faulty, ignorance based assumptions. There is no shame in being ignorant. It gives you a chance to learn something that you don't know. If you willingly choose to remain ignorant when presented with additional information you did not have previously, then that is all on you.

evesgrden -> RE: Homeless in the lifestyle (1/10/2014 5:56:58 PM)
FR http://www.endhomelessness.org/library/entry/the-state-of-homelessness-2013

MistressDarkArt -> RE: Homeless in the lifestyle (1/10/2014 5:58:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HipPoindexter quote: ORIGINAL: SailingBum quote: ORIGINAL: HipPoindexter It is part of what I do for a living. Of the 55-60 hours a week I spend at work, probably 10-15 are spent interfacing with homeless shelters and other programs. quote: ORIGINAL: SailingBum It's easy to discuss a issue. What are you doing about helping the homeless. How much time do you spend each month actually doing something positive to help them? Just curious. BadOne That really doesn't count in my book, after all you are getting paid to do it. How much time do you volunteer to causes that matter to you? BadOne Ha ha ha. Uhhhh, Bum? I'd say anything over 40 hours is 'volunteering' the rest. How many are you doing?

kdsub -> RE: Homeless in the lifestyle (1/10/2014 6:29:32 PM)
I was not thinking you were calling me names...and no one here has made any suggestion on what to do with those that DO NOT WANT HELP. There is a very large part of the homeless that feel that way... These are the ones I am saying I don't want to spend hard earned tax money on... I don't know how many times in my posts I said those that want help should be able to get it... and most do and their homelessness is usually temporary... I am not against helping them and I see no reason to think this is an ignorant attitude... If you do then we will just have to disagree and move on.

Lucylastic -> RE: Homeless in the lifestyle (1/10/2014 6:38:08 PM)
yeah Im gonna go with Rawni and Anjelika on this. The ignorance of what is actually happening out there is horrendous...altho at least you did do it once KD but truly, in this situation, a little knowledge is dangerous,,,, and wrong.

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