RE: Homeless in the lifestyle (Full Version)

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kdsub -> RE: Homeless in the lifestyle (1/10/2014 6:43:27 PM)

Lucy I am willing to agree with you but will you tell me where I am ignorant when saying no one here has given any information and ideas on what to do about those that do not want help. What good does it do to call someone ignorant... let me amend that... to say they have ignorant ideas... when they have no answers themselves.

Butch



Rawni -> RE: Homeless in the lifestyle (1/10/2014 6:48:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I was not thinking you were calling me names...and no one here has made any suggestion on what to do with those that DO NOT WANT HELP. There is a very large part of the homeless that feel that way... These are the ones I am saying I don't want to spend hard earned tax money on... I don't know how many times in my posts I said those that want help should be able to get it... and most do and their homelessness is usually temporary... I am not against helping them and I see no reason to think this is an ignorant attitude... If you do then we will just have to disagree and move on.


How are the one's that refuse help, getting your hard earned dollars? If they aren't going in and using services, how is it that they are using the money? You are not making sense. You stated that people should go for HUD... do for themselves, prove they are worthy for your hard earned dollars. Do you know the HUD system more than to know there is a waiting list? Did you know that they sometimes close to all new applicants because they are so full and that they might not open up for new applicants for years? HUD would be your tax dollars and yes, to get it they have to work for their own betterment. However, the mentally ill often do not work for their own betterment. So those we have no place for. They won't go to shelters quite often, they won't take meds... we have no hospitals that really take them... as they shut those down for the most part in the 70's. We house the mentally ill that are guilty or awaiting trial on criminal cases. So the very ones you are so against helping, you aren't helping.

Now... I know a woman, not mentally ill... has some physical issues and broke up with her husband. She ended on the streets and could not get out of the system or into housing for ten years. You want to talk about temporary homelessness being the most part? Shall I continue. How about me? I took care of my son... I gave up my housing to do so. Then when I quit doing that... I ended up where I am. Can I get some help here? Sure... in a couple years if... IF I am lucky.

I am working my ass off in the only way I can because of physical limitations. I know the system and I still can't help myself fast enough. I could go on, case after case I have worked... but would you listen? Would you hear? Would you be able to get passed your one line of thinking?



angelikaJ -> RE: Homeless in the lifestyle (1/10/2014 6:52:13 PM)

To me, "very large part" has the connotation that the majority of people don't want help.

I don't believe that is the case.

Successful programs attack the obstacles that prevent people from agreeing to get help.
And that does take funding.

And success doesn't come from asking once, but asking over and over again.
People don't often trust a stranger... but if the same face shows up often enough and a rapport is formed... change can happen.
It just isn't instantaneous.








kdsub -> RE: Homeless in the lifestyle (1/10/2014 6:57:12 PM)

Rawni

Despite what you believe I do have some experience...yes limited and I am not claiming to be an expert as you...But... I have seen the type I am talking of take advantage of the limited resources available without any intention of getting off the streets. I have seen them get blankets only to sell them... eat food when if they worked  they could feed themselves... beat each other up to get the freely given benefits of some shelters. These people are known by the very people who administer the food banks and shelters. By giving to them they deny others that want it and need it. BUT they have good hearts and are constantly demanding tax payers support their shelters even when they refuse administer them properly.

Butch



Lucylastic -> RE: Homeless in the lifestyle (1/10/2014 6:57:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Lucy I am willing to agree with you but will you tell me where I am ignorant when saying no one here has given any information and ideas on what to do about those that do not want help. What good does it do to call someone ignorant... let me amend that... to say they have ignorant ideas... when they have no answers themselves.

Butch

I didnt call you ignorant
I said the ignorance about the situation is horrendous.
And there are pletny of ideas, but because of " presumption" or assumption of it being "their own problem" funding, staffing, resources and items to help wont get funded.
violence, hygiene, drugs, alcohol, malnutrition, PTSD, rape, robberies, trauma, medical issues as well as long term mental issues are just a few of the problems beyond funding and interest in actually being ABLE to get programs running, started, and keeping run.
ppfttttttttt you made those suggestions, dont be surprised when people think your "little knowledge" is dangerous to anyone out there on the streeet




Rawni -> RE: Homeless in the lifestyle (1/10/2014 7:02:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Rawni

Despite what you believe I do have some experience...yes limited and I am not claiming to be an expert as you...But... I have seen the type I am talking of take advantage of the limited resources available without any intention of getting off the streets. I have seen them get blankets only to sell them... eat food when if they worked  they could feed themselves... beat each other up to get the freely given benefits of some shelters. These people are known by the very people who administer the food banks and shelters. By giving to them they deny others that want it and need it. BUT they have good hearts and are constantly demanding tax payers support their shelters even when they refuse administer them properly.

Butch


Did you get a diagnosis on these users and abusers?

Surely they were not a large percentage of the homeless. Surely those that did this were not the only type of homeless person. Surely, you are experienced enough to know that that type is only one type. You cannot say that is the way it is for most.

Seriously dude... you are so stuck on those few out of so many that you blind yourself to the real facts of many other people and situations. Why is it that you do not address the serious things we have said here and only focus on that one group of people that most likely have a mental health issue? They took blankets and food... Those god damn wastes of good air.. damn them for taking tax funds.

There is a big picture you are missing here.



kdsub -> RE: Homeless in the lifestyle (1/10/2014 7:07:07 PM)

I understand where you are coming from now...maybe I have been taking the conversations wrong...I'm good at that...[:D]

I'm really not so sure that common sense is not all the knowledge someone needs to have an opinion. You know as well as I that many conservatives believe these people would do better without getting free shelter and services... They may be right in some cases.

But you and I and agree that is wrong at best and  anti-Christian  in actuality. BUT... It is their belief knowing the circumstances..,. not ignorance.

Butch



kdsub -> RE: Homeless in the lifestyle (1/10/2014 7:09:47 PM)

quote:

Did you get a diagnosis on these users and abusers?


As far as I know Larry and the SA do not require the homeless to get diagnosed before they receive help.

Butch



Rawni -> RE: Homeless in the lifestyle (1/10/2014 7:13:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

Did you get a diagnosis on these users and abusers?


As far as I know Larry and the SA do not require the homeless to get diagnosed before they receive help.

Butch


So without a diagnosis and knowing what causes what you have seen and held against other homeless people, you and who is it... Larry and the SA... have figured out these are users and abusers of the system. Well, my hats off to ya'all. Brilliant. So we will just talk about these undiagnosed homeless people as if they were abusing our damn system. Again, brilliant.

Again, you did not address the important things. You select one thing to address flippantly.



kdsub -> RE: Homeless in the lifestyle (1/10/2014 7:16:39 PM)

No Larry Rice and the Salvation Army do not think like me. These are good people that I believe are spreading their resources too thin in enabling the chronically homeless to take needed resources from those that could use it.

Again just an opinion... I will freely admit I could be wrong.

Butch



Missokyst -> RE: Homeless in the lifestyle (1/10/2014 7:17:43 PM)

I don't volunteer at homeless shelters. There is some personality quirk that prevents me from doing good works that might be noticed. Instead, in the summer I make sandwiches to hand out to the homeless who are out trying to collect the cash to survive. In the fall and winter it might be soups or stews. This is JanuANY at subway and so far I have purchased and given away 50 bucks in sandwiches. I have allotted myself 100 dollar for this because winter is my very slow season.
And of course there are bags of dog food in my trunk for the furry friends.



MistressDarkArt -> RE: Homeless in the lifestyle (1/10/2014 7:18:54 PM)

Addressing the OP:

I live on the Central Ca coast, which has perfect weather, fairly low population, and a 'we'll look-the-other-way-unless-you-create-a-problem' attitude. As such, we have a regular contingent of homeless, as well as large influxes every time Nevada institutions dump patients with 3 days worth of meds, some pocket cash, and a bus ticket to anywhere they want to go.

The majority have mental conditions. Many bring crime, harassment, drugs and violence to my town, and to me personally. I've had unpredictable people I've never met knocking on my door asking me to give them a can opener and btw, would I take their cat since I would provide a better home. I had a ranting, violent transient run toward me across the street, trip over the curb falling at my feet, shouting every derogatory epithet ever coined while I pulled out my phone, took a picture for a description, and phoned it in on the spot while he stumbled up and ran away.

It sucks for them, it sucks for me, it sucks for the police, it sucks for the little jewel of a town I live in (which depends on tourism to keep from crumbling into the sea). Still, I can safely say most of the folks I see around here do NOT choose or want to be homeless. They've fallen through the cracks and are dealing with it the only way they can.

How do I, personally, contribute to better this situation?

I support our women's shelter and food bank. I also rent to a mentally disabled woman who along with her cat would be homeless otherwise. She's been on the Section 8 waiting list for THREE YEARS and is STILL waiting! Where was she supposed to live all that time, and now? I don't take Section 8, but I significantly reduced her rent so she could afford to live there. It has been no picnic...imagine living on the same property/doing business with a permanent preteen in a 50 year old body. Still, I am so happy to see her living independently and proud of how far she's come. She now has a part-time job in a thrift shop walking distance from here, and made fast friends with some of the other special needs women she works with. She's out of bars, off drugs, and off the street. Given her circumstances, she's now at the top of her game.











Rawni -> RE: Homeless in the lifestyle (1/10/2014 7:22:43 PM)

If we had hospitals open for the mentally ill of this degree... you would be spending tax dollars on them... but of course... Larry and SA wouldn't have to deal with them.

You know... I watched a truck load of gifts for children from the SA go to the head SA guy's home city and didn't touch... where it was supposed to go. I have seen real waste. In many agencies, funded by Fema and not. I have watched as people got rich off the homeless situation in our nation.

There are answers... multiple answers, many things that we have to do. But... sorry... most those people don't vote... wouldn't count much if they did and well... there just isn't enough money in the budget.

I spoke to a senator in CO and his vote was no, to giving those between work and disability any money at all or medical care. Within an hour I changed his vote because he listened to how this would filter into society and how it would cost in other areas. I have spent more time on you than I did him and you still can't see the bigger picture because you aren't willing to see it.

So okay... I never wanted to talk to senators again... but I think I would rather do that, than try to overwhelm your knowledge of this. Good day to ya.



Missokyst -> RE: Homeless in the lifestyle (1/10/2014 7:23:46 PM)

As someone who has had to consider moving in the last few years, there are MANY reasons people cannot get into housing.
Most apartments run credit checks, how the heck is someone who has been homeless going to pass that? Then, first and last month plus deposit... umm.. homeless, where is that money coming from? How about pets? Many homeless keep pets for companionship and security. Will they give them up because the dog does not meet a weight limit?
It is difficult enough to meet all the criteria for rentals when you have been renting and working elsewhere. Doing that after having been homeless is daunting.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rawni

Let's start with our vets then.

Move on down to those ill... oh but we can't always know what their illness is and while they fight for years to get help... they get to see what is it like in our bigger cities with services for a few when there are hundreds, if not thousands looking for the same.

Then lets move to the families that didn't fare too well in this economy.

Kd... Unless you have have directly worked with these people and know how long it can take to get that hand up and then to actually make it a reality and work it so that it never... you think... happens again... you're talking from assumption.




Rawni -> RE: Homeless in the lifestyle (1/10/2014 7:28:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

As someone who has had to consider moving in the last few years, there are MANY reasons people cannot get into housing.
Most apartments run credit checks, how the heck is someone who has been homeless going to pass that? Then, first and last month plus deposit... umm.. homeless, where is that money coming from? How about pets? Many homeless keep pets for companionship and security. Will they give them up because the dog does not meet a weight limit?
It is difficult enough to meet all the criteria for rentals when you have been renting and working elsewhere. Doing that after having been homeless is daunting.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rawni

Let's start with our vets then.

Move on down to those ill... oh but we can't always know what their illness is and while they fight for years to get help... they get to see what is it like in our bigger cities with services for a few when there are hundreds, if not thousands looking for the same.

Then lets move to the families that didn't fare too well in this economy.

Kd... Unless you have have directly worked with these people and know how long it can take to get that hand up and then to actually make it a reality and work it so that it never... you think... happens again... you're talking from assumption.




Right on. These and many other reasons hold them back. If you don't have perfect credit or close to it... some HUD programs you cannot get into. It is a vicious cycle for many.

Bringing up the pets. You are so right and even social workers for those able to get one, suggest they get pets. You don't know the isolation of homelessness until you see it first hand or are there. I found, you give one a hug... and you have a friend for life. They do not get touched, they get treated badly, are victims of crime, rape, theft, beatings, robbery, etc. So a pet... a friend... someone that loves them no matter what... is vital.



ThePrincessKali -> RE: Homeless in the lifestyle (1/10/2014 11:31:25 PM)

I have a cousin back on the east coast who is schizophrenic and is homeless. He went to college and got a degree and was working on becoming a teacher when it hit him. He was a HS athlete and got excellent grades in college. That's the sad part about schizophrenia is it generally hits in your early to mid 20s. It developed quickly and he was soon delusional and hearing voices. Although his parents tried to care for him and make him take his meds they ultimately couldn't force him to, legally you cannot force medication on an adult. He ran away one night and months later was spotted here in California, we still have no idea how he got across the country. I've searched for him and found him on two occasions. He didn't recognize me and was completely out of touch with reality. When I called his name he realized I knew him and immediately ran away. Assuming everyone who's homeless has a drug or alcohol problem is extremely ignorant. So to anyone who feels "extended periods of homelessness" is their fault please enlighten me. How can I fix my cousins life?



ThePrincessKali -> RE: Homeless in the lifestyle (1/10/2014 11:33:37 PM)

I agree about pets but unfortunately a lot of shelters won't take people in who have pets. I've always said if I ever am able to afford to I would like to open a shelter for the homeless that allows and welcomes pets. I can't imagine having to give my dog up.



MasterJohnSteed -> RE: Homeless in the lifestyle (1/11/2014 4:48:13 AM)

The Homeless aren't simply the 1930's hobo any more. they are vets who can not deal with normal civilized life any more, they are the mentally ill and the drug dependent. They are people that lost their jobs and homes to bad finances.

There is a stigma in being homeless. Expecting the Government to "FIX" everything is a fairy tale. You can thank the GOP for cutting funding for the mentally ill and drug dependence. (At Least in this state)

Most people see the homeless as lazy and unwilling to work. I have never been homeless but have stared the possibility in the face. I am not lazy, I am not mentally Ill and I am not drug dependent.

I was going through a divorce, didn't have a job because, I had to move 900+ miles and my parents weren't there to take up the slack. I thank God that I found a job and was able to care for myself



angelikaJ -> RE: Homeless in the lifestyle (1/11/2014 5:05:36 AM)

FR
A quick search (and I will let those interested search yourselves) found articles that featured homeless working teachers and nurses.

What happens when you lose a home to foreclosure and have no credit... families end up homeless.
Or you have kids and are the sole provider for them.

In most cities there is a huge shortage of affordable housing.



Kana -> RE: Homeless in the lifestyle (1/11/2014 5:55:42 AM)

quote:

I am curious how people here in the Lifestyle honestly feel about homelessness


Been there. Done that. Won't do it again TYVFM.

Tell ya what though-It gave a different perspective.Other peeps complain about rain,bad weather.Me-when that stuff goes down I'm glad I'm not living in it. Gave me a brand new appreciation for the real important things in life, heat, running water, indoor plumbing, air conditioning,walls that keep the wind out, floors that don't radiate cold.

As far as helping, I worked in a homeless shelter for a while, then of course went right to the source and worked in Drug Rehab for years. The one thing I will say is that I almost never give money directly to homeless beggars (I all too well know what far too many of them do with it), I do donate to the local missions.



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