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Master Vs Dom - 11/19/2004 3:59:09 PM   
asyouwishmaster


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I am new to this site but I am finding the interaction and topic matter very helpful. I would like your views on the differences between a Master and Dom. Can a Dom have a slave or just a sub? I've always been confused by the terminology. Personally I've thought a Dom had a sub and a Master had a slave. But I see so many posts in chat rooms of "Domxx" iso "slave" and "Master" iso "sub" etc. Can someone help me out?
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RE: Master Vs Dom - 11/19/2004 4:04:51 PM   
karmaslave


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First thing I ever learned about Everything: ignore the terminology. The problem is that everyone has a different view on "what is" or "what isn't" and its best just to say, "OK, this is what I like, you in or out, buddy?" The terminology is probably as antiquated as calling someone "Lord Bucktooth" or "Sir Snufflekins"; its real meaning has been so diluted through the spread of viral thoughts that it means very little, if anything at all. Is a master a master if he only has a submissive? Is a submissive a submissive if she likes 24/7? What happens when you're sleeping, is it still 24/7?

Alternatively: http://www.erotic-bdsm.net/dictionary.html

(in reply to asyouwishmaster)
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RE: Master Vs Dom - 11/19/2004 4:06:52 PM   
Estring


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In my experience, most men call themselves Master because they think that makes them one.

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RE: Master Vs Dom - 11/19/2004 5:28:12 PM   
INSIDEYOURMIND


Posts: 483
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Badges, we don't need no stinking badges!

I always felt a Dominant is what I am, and a Master to my sub.

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How would you know?

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RE: Master Vs Dom - 11/19/2004 6:17:06 PM   
subbiejenn


Posts: 631
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i think everyone has different views on this *grins* but for me ~ i wont call anyone "Master" until i find the "One". That special One i want to spend my life with, the One who will collar me, the One i will love (sighs - if that ever happens) the One i will serve 24/7 (and not online) *grins*

i am a sub and don't consider myself a slave but i have thought when i do find the "One" i would become a slave (not real sure) but i feel slaves give up more rights then i am willing to right now because i haven't found the perfect Dom for me. When i find Him and i have the trust and faith i need then i can see me being a slave for Him.

i guess for me it is a level of trust and commitment. i am a sub now and have been with Doms (none of which i called Master) but when the time is right i would love to call someone Master and be His slave.

i am sure there are relationships between a sub and the Dom she calls "Master" -- each relationship is different and has different degrees... different kinks ... different rules ... etc...

JMO
~jenn~


< Message edited by subbiejenn -- 11/19/2004 6:32:09 PM >


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(in reply to asyouwishmaster)
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RE: Master Vs Dom - 11/20/2004 5:19:01 AM   
cynnacent1


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From: Massachusetts
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The discussions regarding titles and labels always remind me of one of my favorite quotes:
"A rose by any other name would smell as sweet... "--William Shakespeare

Take a box of RiceCrispies cereal. Suppose that during manufacturing, the label was ripped off of the package. Now suppose that label was replaced with the title of Cheerios. Now, suppose you were to pour a bowl and decide for yourself. Are they now Cheerios simply because the label claims that they are? Do they still look the same, taste the same, feel the same, smell the same? Do they still 'Snap! Crackle! and Pop!'? Will you eat that bowl of cereal with the acceptance and belief that those RiceCrispies are now Cheerios simple because a label on a box claims that they are? --food for thought, no pun intended.


quote:

karmaslave: What happens when you're sleeping, is it still 24/7?


It IS for me. While i am asleep i am still HIS. As He requires, i am wearing HIS collar and am always naked in His bed. i am still at His beck and call, His command, while asleep. In fact, i have submitted to Him even while in a semiconscious, barely awake state. And if dreams count in anyone else's book, my dreams alone would hold up the theory.

INSIDEYOURMIND is the only dominant i have ever referred to as 'Master'. He is my Master regardless of my title being a slave or a submissive. i never felt a need to referre to anyone as such prior to Him. Prior to my having met my Master, there were plenty of other dominants who had sought my submission for themselves, and for many reasons i declined them all respectfully. None of them were right for me, none offered exactly what i needed. Although they might certainly be master's for someone, none are master's of me. INSIDEYOURMIND became my Master the moment i knew that i not only WANTED to serve Him, obey Him and submit ALL to Him, BUT actually NEEDED, and desired to as well.

The titles and labels and their meanings vary for many in reference to BDSM. The only titles and labels and meanings that should be valued or should truley matter are those that exist in YOUR own little corner of the world. For Master and i, that little corner which is important to us, is the one He and i share. In that corner, He is quite deservingly known as 'Master'.

quote:

liljoy: When you and your Master met, how did he/she introduce himself to you?
Even for a short time after we met i wasn't 100% certain of what to call Him so i finally just asked Him what He'd like me to address Him as. His answer was, "Some have called me Jeffrey, some have called me Master ... which do you prefere?" It was not long after i'd asked that i knew He is not simply 'Jeffrey' for me ... He's my Master.


< Message edited by cynnacent1 -- 11/28/2004 2:52:05 PM >


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(in reply to asyouwishmaster)
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RE: Master Vs Dom - 11/20/2004 6:01:42 AM   
karmaslave


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"Yes" would've sufficed equally well.

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RE: Master Vs Dom - 11/20/2004 8:08:16 AM   
masteroffire


Posts: 66
Joined: 11/9/2004
From: Yukon, Oklahoma
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I suppose the definition of these and usage of them is subject to opinion just like almost anything else. However the my opinion on this one is the Dom/me simply states that one is a dominant, while Master/Mistress is simply how a slave would refer to the owner... There likely was at one time a deeper meaning, but as has been stated by others it has been lost.

I do not agree on all counts of those stating that people just call themselves Master or Mistress because they thinks that makes them one... Likely that is true in some cases. I myself use the userid masteroffire, simply because my slave is called fire, and I am her owner... I do believe some call themselves that for an ego trip, but not all. I have only read these forums for a short time, but it seems many on here are very negative, and others very helpful... I thank those who are helpful..


(in reply to asyouwishmaster)
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RE: Master Vs Dom - 11/20/2004 8:34:39 AM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

Is a submissive a submissive if she likes 24/7? What happens when you're sleeping, is it still 24/7?


That's why I don't let beth sleep.

And although Estring position regarding self anointing titles reflects accuracy. I've come to accept a distinction between Master and Dom. A "Master" achieves that title when he has acquired a slave. Without a slave what is he Master of? A Dom is a person who interacts with submissives, distinguished from slave. Therefore in my life, I am Master only to beth. And she is slave only to me. If we didn't have that level of commitment I could still be her Dom and she my submissive. In a vanilla comparison I consider it akin to being Engaged versus being Married.

You won't find that definition in any textbook or even in any Lifestyle directory. It's just how I distinguish the two 'titles' in my social relationships.

Oh and almost forgot.....

EMPEROR MERC

(in reply to karmaslave)
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RE: Master Vs Dom - 11/20/2004 11:16:57 AM   
srahfox


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Emperor Merc, you can always make me smile. If not smile at least think.
My two cents. A dom is some one who is generally dominant over people who are now... I know I know very simplistic view but just look at the work itself. A master is someone who 'ownes' someone else. my Master owns me, he is a Dom. I never have never heard him say he was just generally a Master.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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RE: Master Vs Dom - 11/21/2004 6:11:52 AM   
lovingmaster45


Posts: 261
Joined: 9/16/2004
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"I am a dominant female" "I am a submissive female" Those are statements about your orientation. I started this lifestyle at 15 as a fuck toy for my HS typing teacher. My orientation was a submissive one. Later in life, I sought out Mentors to help me explore my dominant personality; time does change some of us. I was lucky enough to find Lord Cuff and Lord Titan; both trained at the Royal. They helped me with my first sub, irina. When I had reached a point with her that I thought I needed more guidance, I sent her to Lord Cuff for more training. From there she and I formed a Master/slave relationship; but I did NOT begin calling myself Master Jerry until my Mentors told me that I had deserved the title. All this took 3 years of hard work and reading. Writing daily journals and sending them to my Mentors; absorbing their feedback, and using my new knowledge to furthur my relatinoship with my sub.

So for me, "Master" has a whole different connotation from someone who has taken on a title just because he needed to come up with a catchy yahoo ID.

I suppose the ones who rile me the most are the ones who call themselves "Lord". I know the real work that comes with the title and I assure you more than 99 % of the people who assume that title have NOT earned it.

This is my take on the subject. I am sure others have a different view based on their experiences in the lifestyle. I came across a female calling herself a slave the oter night. Her sole claim to the title was that she had been an on-line slave for 3 years,.,...lol. Is it any wonder we do not take the labels seriously?

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RE: Master Vs Dom - 11/21/2004 8:40:21 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
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srahfox,
I think we are in agreement. And since you used my proper title, I'll reply. I've found in real life, a person's confidence, 'lifestyle acumen, and lifestyle skills were inversely proportionate to his/her introductory title. By that I mean how he introduces himself in a public forum. I think this holds to online as well as real time.

It's become such a funny subject now with beth and I that it's impossible to hold back laughter when a new person introduces himself with something like; "Hi, I'm 'Imperial Lord Over Dragon-tongue, Master of the House of Perdition', nice to meet you!" Their next question usually is if they could use their 'K-Mart' flogger (really a replacement mop head) on beth.

Whether it's reality or not, it's amazing that the people I sat with last night at club play party all went by names like Al, Ralph, and amazingly Merc (well, my real name, which is too unique to be made up). Not so amazingly, they all had real time slaves, all were 'Masters' and were referred to as such by their slaves. Not because they had to, but because the respect and trust that is implied by the title was earned.

I think another question would be interesting for any real time slaves with an on-going Master/slave relationship. When you and your Master met, how did he/she introduce himself to you?

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RE: Master Vs Dom - 11/21/2004 10:33:05 AM   
proudsub


Posts: 6142
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
Status: offline
quote:

When you and your Master met, how did he/she introduce himself to you?


When i met my first r/l Master it was "SirJames".

_____________________________

proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan


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RE: Master Vs Dom - 11/21/2004 1:41:27 PM   
feline


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Joined: 2/23/2004
From: CA
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It has always been to my understanding and belief that dominant defined ones personality. Whereas Master was a title one earned. Through experience, training, schooling etc.

If a man is in the military and wishes to be a General, he is not allowed to just place that title in front of his name. It is something he must earn.

Just because a man slaps the word "Master" in his name, doesn't make him so.


Take care,





Attachment (1)

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(in reply to asyouwishmaster)
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RE: Master Vs Dom - 11/21/2004 3:19:55 PM   
mtsilence


Posts: 33
Joined: 8/29/2004
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THis discussion seems to pop up on every single BDSM chat or web site out there. It also raises its head more then once in a while in the Real Time BDSM communities and prompts at least a few groups to have open discussion about this very thing. What is the difference between a Dom and a Master? I most often say a Master is defined as such, by a group of his peers, based on his knowledge, skill, and application of his Mastery. This statement I am sure will be met with much argument and debate. Some saying there are no schools to "graduate from” so how does one gain Mastery? On the other hand, is it merely that if the submissive starts referring to their Dominant as their Master, makes it so? This posting does not have anything to do with what you choose to call a Dominant in your personal relationship.
I am writing this from my standing as a real time submissive, who has engaged in and enjoys BDSM activities; therefore, what I write is based solely on my personal observations and experience and NOT as some assumed expert on the subject. It is of my opinion, based upon my personal training received from several wonderful Dominants and Trainers, as well as my friends in this lifestyle and my study over the past seven years.
a) A Dominant is a person with a dominant trait in their personality.
b) A Master is a Dominant with substantial knowledge, has practiced real time Mastership which may or many not include BDSM experiences and they are recognized as a Master amongst their peers. These two areas clearly do not mean the same.
c) A Master does possess dominant personalities. However, it does not convey that all Dominant's have earned the title of being a Master. To clarify the topic of Dominant verses Master, we can review Webster’s II New dictionary, which defines some of the words we associate with this lifestyle and this posting.
Dominate verb 1. To influence, control or rule by superior power or authority. 2. To occupy the most powerful position in or over.
Dominant: adj. 1. Having the most control or influence.
Domineer: verb 1. To rule over arbitrarily or arrogantly: tyrannize. 2. To be bossy or overbearing.
Master: noun 1. One with control or authority over another or others. 2. Someone of great learning, skill or ability. 3. One who teaches or mentors.
As to the idea that there are no schools from which ‘Master’s’ can graduate from, please do not leak that out to the Leather Community who since the late 1930s has been using the strict and serious training process to ensure its members are fully versed in their protocols and ideals. Also, please do not tell that to the Gorean sub section of BDSM that has gone to great lengths to create trainers and training for their Masters and Kajirea. While more then a few Dominant’s hit the scene without any real training, the best find mentors and instructors, they gain access to knowledge not just from books, but also from real life people who have been there and done that (so to speak). There are also numerous workshops and retreats not just in the United States but also around the world offering information and training regarding techniques and styles and systems within BDSM. With all these, it is easy to see that yes indeed one can earn the title Master through effort. Moreover, the best do earn it much to their own amazement! I state this because I have witnessed over the years several members within the community who never styled themselves as Master or Mistress so and so, suddenly find members of the community referring to them as such. Primarily, because they had displayed their honor, dignity, skill and personal self-discipline in the BDSM community and in their BDSM relationships over the years in such a way that the community acknowledged their position within its ranks.
Additionally while many will snicker at those who title themselves Lord or Lady, before you jump on that wagon, do the courteous thing and ASK them why they chose that title. You may get more of an education then even you were prepared for! I have known several Lords who chose that title not as some pomp and circumstance silliness, but because of serious research and review of the Title Master and the ideals that when behind Mastery and self. A Lord is NOT a Master; however, he is in a position of extreme trust. He has responsibilities over people and property and if he is living true to a code of Honor and Chivalry (much forgotten in this modern age), he is bond by the ideal of ‘Nobles Obligese’ (Nobility Obliges) in which it is through noble and honorable actions one continues to hold and earn honor. You may sneer at these few as you please, but if they consistently show their value and honor, then rethink your view of the title. Just as you should rethink the view of the title for those self-proclaimed Mistresses and Masters who are anything but in their comportment when in public or on line in a chat room or posting on some message board.
With that side note out of the way, I will maintain that one does not become a Master, simply by tacking on the word "master" onto their name. Mastery of anything, takes time, study, dedication and practical application.
As a submissive, I can assure you I shall not be submit to anyone simply because they think they are a 'Master' because they are ‘domineering.’ I personally find a ‘domineering’ nature to be the reflection of a very self-centered personality and that it has nothing to do with the actual BDSM lifestyle.
Most in the BDSM lifestyle, be it online or in real life, will find at least once we have all come across the phrase ‘Safe, Sane and Consensual.’ With that in mind, no one should submit to somebody simply because they have told you they are a Master. If you are going to submit, remember that your life is at stake, those who are reckless, wild, and undisciplined in themselves can do you lasting harm. If your life is at stake, due to a medical condition or some health issue would you take yourself to a first month medicinal student, who has only read a few books and has no real experience? I would think that most of us would prefer to go to a doctor, somebody who is educated, trained, with practical experience in medicine and is also known amongst his peers, as being skilled and knowledgeable and capable in their practice of medicine.


< Message edited by mtsilence -- 11/21/2004 3:24:28 PM >

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RE: Master Vs Dom - 11/22/2004 2:33:22 AM   
liljoy


Posts: 577
Joined: 3/25/2004
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Well i'll answer this as a submissive. When Master and i first met, He called Himself Lazloe101

I think another question would be interesting for any real time slaves with an on-going Master/slave relationship. When you and your Master met, how did he/she introduce himself to you?
[/quote]

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RE: Master Vs Dom - 11/22/2004 7:49:04 AM   
willing2serve


Posts: 385
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Very interesting topic liljoy...possibly another great thread...i personally can say when i met Doms initially the ones i was interested in, all never used the word Master. The Dom that i am with now, he introduced himself as his first name. Sir came later, the Master is something i know he will be to me.

Respectfully,
Willing2serve1

(in reply to liljoy)
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RE: Master Vs Dom - 11/27/2004 4:50:10 PM   
111597


Posts: 22
Joined: 11/8/2004
Status: offline
Those are very good terms to ask opinions on. Yes a Dom can have a slave and so can a master. A submissive may have a slave that belongs to a Dom or Master.
The definitions within themselves will help you realize that better.
For example: A submmissive gives their life to a dominant, but retains control of their life decisions. It depends upon the dominants requirements and the agreement both individual makes.
A slave is someone who gives their heart, mind, and body to someone whether they are a Dominant or a Master.
A slave can also be be in a long-term relationship with a Dominant.
Hope that helps.

Respectfully,

Mistress_Jan

http://groups.msn.com/DisciplineConnection/_what'snew[link=http://groups.msn.com/DisciplineConnection/_whatsnew

(in reply to asyouwishmaster)
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RE: Master Vs Dom - 11/27/2004 5:40:33 PM   
Lordandmaster


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Joined: 6/22/2004
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The words mean different things to different people, and there's nothing like a consensus about how to use them appropriately and inappropriately. (In fact, you should be very suspicious of people who insist that So-and-so is misusing such words; usually people like that are just trying to make you conform to their opinions.)

To me, a master is someone who owns a slave; if you don't have a slave, you're not a master (even if you believe you were born to be one). A dom is someone who is naturally dominant. I think it's a trait we're both with; others disagree, but in any case it's not a trait you can simply deny or ignore or cause to disappear. So anyone is a dom just by being a dom.

But that's just the way I use the words. Feel free to use them however you'd like.

Lam

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RE: Master Vs Dom - 11/27/2004 11:24:51 PM   
atHisfeet


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Joined: 11/14/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

The words mean different things to different people, and there's nothing like a consensus about how to use them appropriately and inappropriately.

Lam




this seems to be quite common around here.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
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