non-physical punishments (Full Version)

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blacklacekitty -> non-physical punishments (1/22/2014 1:50:13 PM)

What are your favorite non-physical punishments and what does your sub/slave have to do to deserve it?
(by non-physical I mean by chores, time out, etc)




kalikshama -> RE: non-physical punishments (1/22/2014 1:58:16 PM)

Being on the receiving end of The Look is sufficient punishment for me.




DesFIP -> RE: non-physical punishments (1/22/2014 2:09:44 PM)

None of the above. We talk about why I couldn't do what he wanted and try to solve the problem for the future.




OsideGirl -> RE: non-physical punishments (1/22/2014 3:13:17 PM)

Both of the above for me.




RC21 -> RE: non-physical punishments (1/22/2014 3:28:43 PM)


The look is usually enough.




littlewonder -> RE: non-physical punishments (1/22/2014 5:59:17 PM)

none are my favorite. I hate punishments.




NiceButMeanGirl -> RE: non-physical punishments (1/22/2014 6:09:02 PM)

I don't do punishments. I do instruction/teaching. We discuss what went wrong and why, how to correct what went wrong and how to avoid it happening again in the future. Then my submissive does what it takes to correct it and avoid doing it again in the future. Not everyone has a punishment dynamic.

NBMG




TieMeInKnottss -> RE: non-physical punishments (1/22/2014 6:48:35 PM)

I qualify "corner time-no talking" as cruel & unusual punishment...I have tried to convince doms that it is a violation of the Geneva Convention but was told I don't qualify as "uniformed member of an armed force".... Beat me with a 2x4 BUT please don't make me be quiet! I once had a 10 minute punishment that lasted around 45 minutes because my master kept resetting the clock everyone time I made a sound!




DarkSteven -> RE: non-physical punishments (1/22/2014 6:57:55 PM)

I once tried to convince some folks that I punished my sub by tying her up and then telling her jokes and omitting the punchlines.




Toysinbabeland -> RE: non-physical punishments (1/22/2014 7:40:57 PM)

My favorite punishment is when CX makes me buy shoes and eat dessert....it's simply awful.




ResidentSadist -> RE: non-physical punishments (1/22/2014 7:49:12 PM)

The excerpt below is from an article called Passive Discipline written by author Mistress Steel (F.R.R. Mallory). I believe it was in her Steel-Door Newsletter. For more information, she cites her other books as sources referenced from Extreme Space, The Domination and Submission Handbook, Safe, Sane and Consensual, Dangerous Choices or other books by F.R.R. Mallory.

This was given to me by a friend about 14 years ago. I have kept it all this time because I am in accord with some of the techniques. I overlook her presumptive descriptions of Dominant and/or submissive motives for their behaviors. I even edited out the several of the first paragraphs about submissive motives to spare you their bias. But I if you focus on the tools for passive discipline, this may be of some value and give you insight into some of the things I do. There are some good relationship tools like the 30 minute talk timer, earning the right to play, not rewarding bad behavior with any attention and etc. Also a nice little list of disciplines like silence and banishment. So with a grain of salt, I give you a piece of Mistress Steels' Passive Discipline.




One choice is to be non-responsive to any submissive who is improperly acting out or offering direct challenges to the direction or word of the Dominant. It is important for the Dominant to tell the submissive that there will be only one line of recourse when the submissive voluntarily decides to posture at them. Make it simple.

Never give the submissive what they want. That is to reward this behavior. Many submissives want to draw the 'punitive discipline' of the Dominant so it becomes imperative to not respond. (Many submissives want and enjoy physical discipline like spanking.) If you address real life behavior problems by using something that the submissive enjoys then you are encouraging continuing bad behavior!

If your relationship is occurring in real life (physically together) one of the most effective methods of non-attention control is to create a quiet spot. When the submissive takes actions that 'appear' out of control (they are in truth not out of control) then the submissive should be remanded to the quiet spot. A good spot is usually the corner of a closet. In addition the Dominant should place nothing in the area of the spot that is of interest except an index card that states openly the various steps of discipline.

1: SILENCE....(length of time <20 minutes>)
(Use a common egg timer that ticks rather loudly)
(upon failure to remain in place and silent EACH step
is taken progressively)
2: REMOVAL OF CLOTHING (restart timer)
3: INSERTION OF GAG (restart timer) -
This SHOULD be done with a sub
who doesn't like gags.
(REMIND the sub that vocalizing is THEIR choice
so control of usage of the gag is THEIR choice too!)
4: FORMAL KNEEL POSITION (restart timer)
5: KNEEL ON MAT (restart timer)
6: COLLARED, GAGGED, KNEELING - COLLAR BOUND TO WALL
(restart timer)
7: BANISHMENT FROM DOM PRESENCE FOR 2 hours
8: BANISHMENT FROM DOM PRESENCE FOR 24 hours
(requirement to spend entire 24 hour period copying by hand
on paper (I will NOT disrespect my Master)
allowing 2 (4 hour sleep periods).

The Dominant should use something like an egg timer and have the submissive sit facing nothing but the list for a predetermined amount of time (20 minutes).

Part of acting out is a desire for attention - even negative attention. And, a part of the submissive does not want to submit. That part is the one fighting the Dominant. The Dominant must nullify the dominant side within the submissive without confronting it directly (such as an argument). Simply put, when the dominant aspect of a submissive manifests the submissive will not be played with, paid attention to or responded to until the submissive acknowledges self control and stops using their dominant side to combat, trigger or incite their Dominant. Believe it or not this works. The dominant side of a submissive is there as a part of the submissive, therefore the submissive does control that sides actions. No evasions.

To the submissive:
The idea of passive discipline is to help you alter your behavior into actions that are beneficial and pleasing to both you and your Dominant. Should you continue to vocalize when you are supposed to be quiet - contemplating or thinking, then your Dominant may have you unclothe, if the acting out continues s/he may use a gag. NOTE: Many submissives say that they cannot handle gags for a variety of reasons. The presence of a gag can be a sincere deterrent for loud uncontrolled outbursts. The Dominant should consider taking the submissive to the store just to buy the gag together (buy a good leather one - comfortable!) so that the submissive knows that this is part of the discipline regime, something their actions will totally control the use of!

If the problem continues s/he may place something uncomfortable underneath your naked legs (like an upside down office mat). Using simple step by steps s/he will aid you in controlling you. Each step is a voluntary choice on your part. This is crucial for you the submissive to understand. You must decide to behave and offer that good behavior to your Dominant as your gift to them.

Should you achieve step 8 and still be acting out then perhaps you are actively trying to destroy the relationship. If you will not listen to your Dominant beyond a certain point then s/he should tell you that if you continue then you are demonstrating a voluntary decision not to obey and if you continue s/he will have no alternative but to release you.

Submission is hard work. It is given in every moment and every breath in the tiny choices you make. Not in your words. Not in your thoughts. But in the actions you take with and for your Dominant and yourself. You need to convince your inner self that you are not losing your strength by submitting. It is harder to kneel than to stand.

S/he should also make you earn the right to serve them by good behavior. In other words s/he should reward you when you do well and virtually ignore you when you do poorly (this type of punishment should be clearly discussed in advance of implementation so that the submissive knows what is occurring and why and does not have sudden feelings of abandonment but knows it is standard discipline that they have chosen to endure through their free will actions!). Play is a reward. It is attention. If you fail during the day then s/he should perhaps create a small mat on the floor of the closet for you to sleep on. Making you earn the right to be in your Dominant's presence, in their bed.

If you truly want to surrender to your Dominant - you will. Your defender merely allows your Dominant to carry the sword of protection during the time you are in their presence. At other times your defender will remain solid and strong, keeping you safe till you are with your Dominant again!

To the Dominant:
If you have noted strong dominant language and attitude and wish to reduce or curtail this in your submissive then you need to instruct your submissive that you will not allow or permit that 'aspect' of them to argue with you. There can only be one Dominant and one submissive in the relationship otherwise you end up in a war for control! When your submissive's DOM or attitude side creeps up or begins to argue you need to consistently withdraw. Do not get loud, heated, angry, emotional or upset. This is your way of teaching your submissive that you will not feed into the desire to conflict or argue (which is subtle manipulation). By the same token you need to offer your submissive an opportunity (controlled by you) for free and open speech. Make this when you are physically together if possible. To do this well, use an egg timer. Wind it up to 30 minutes and allow your submissive to speak with total (uninterrupted by you) freedom during that time period. When the buzzer sounds rewind the timer for 30 minutes. Your submissive is to remain totally silent in the second time period or be punished (such as I described above). This allows both of you to think about what has been said. And it prevents a furthering of the commentary when heads are hot. At the end of the second time period I suggest that neither of you talk about it. Explain to your submissive in advance of starting this that you will respond within 24 hours of any request by your submissive for a 'window of free speech'. If your submissive begins any heated exchange without asking for this permissive window first then you should consider it an attempt to manipulate or a desire for negative attention. Your submissive has been getting responses from you or forcing you to give them attention. By taking control of that back and rewarding good behavior by increased attention your submissive will quickly learn that the vanilla habit of infighting is no longer effective. S/he will then be more motivated to not act out. It would be my choice to respond to any issues brought up in a free speech window after at least 12 hours of calm thought. We most often say the wrong things in the heat of the moment. Then be certain to address only the issue and not direct ANY commentary at your submissive personally (no accusations) this type of analytical response will not feed the desire for an emotional display from you (furthering the ideal of reducing this behavior).

You should tell your submissive in detail that you have decided to try a new form of long distance discipline based on the same idea. Tell your submissive that if s/he becomes argumentative, manipulative, disagreeable, whinny, overly dramatic, overly emotional or excessively needy online or on the phone that you will forbid them to contact you for incrementally increasing periods of time. In that punishment of withdrawal window s/he is to hand write on paper "I will not create problems." Over and over. A beginners window would be one hour...if the attitude and problem continue add another hour etc.. At the end of that time period you should make contact in a mutually prior agreed upon way. If S/HE is not there you should have a secondary mode of contact such as email or answering machine where you leave a simple message that you attempted to make contact and the time! S/he is to mail these writings to you as soon as the punishment time period is ended. S/HE needs to know that her behavior controls the amount of personal attention that you give to them. Bad Behavior - no attention. Good Behavior - attention!

Nothing replaces clear, open communication. Most behavior problems emerge from insecurity issues from past experiences and the true desire is to retrain the responses not further injure or damage the individual. Responding in clear consistent ways will eventually reassure your submissive and allow them to fully trust you. Keep disciplines simple and easy to understand. Altering of behavior is a voluntary action, a gift given from submissive to Dominant, a demonstration of respect and value.

[Edit: typesetting]




AthenaSurrenders -> RE: non-physical punishments (1/22/2014 11:08:27 PM)

While I see the point of the style of punishment, I can't imagine a situation where a punishment would need to be escalated SEVEN times due to disobedience. I know for sure my husband wouldn't stand for that. Once or twice might indicate a lack of self control on my part, but seven would probably indicate some pretty serious relationship problems, since that sort of continued defiance would pretty much indicate that I was no longer willing to submit, for whatever reason.

I also don't like this:
' Tell your submissive that if s/he becomes argumentative, manipulative, disagreeable, whinny, overly dramatic, overly emotional or excessively needy online or on the phone that you will forbid them to contact you for incrementally increasing periods of time.'
Overly emotional, needy, disagreeable - these are both vague and loaded terms. What one person considers 'overly emotional' might be an appropriate expression of distress for another. If a dominant gave me this warning, I'd be walking away. It suggests that I'll be punished if my emotions, worries or desire for affections inconvenience him - not a way to make me feel secure or valued. Yes, of course they should agree ahead of time what counts as 'excessively' needy and 'overly' dramatic but honestly, if you expect me to behave like a grumpy toddler, why are you trying to have an adult relationship with me?

To answer the OP's question:
Non-physical punishments are pretty rare in this house, I'm struggling to remember much of them. I did once earn a life-time ban on eating mars bars but was able to get this reduced for good behaviour.




MalcolmNathaniel -> RE: non-physical punishments (1/23/2014 3:09:20 AM)

~FR~

Punishments are never fun for the sub and almost never for the dom.

Torture can be fun, but punishments aren't.




blacklacekitty -> RE: non-physical punishments (1/23/2014 8:25:50 AM)

Thanks for all the input! Very informative :) although i feel i must say that i used the term favorite loosely, punishment is never fun. Sorry about that. I'm not used to forums and will consider my use of words in the future. thanks again!




highhopes4us -> RE: non-physical punishments (1/23/2014 9:21:18 AM)

Well I hate when my punishment is being ignored by Master....OMG hate it.......That's worst for me than a spanking




DesFIP -> RE: non-physical punishments (1/23/2014 9:53:33 AM)

I would have nothing but contempt for a dominant who did anything on RS's list. Especially as nowhere does discussion of the problem appear nor any belief that the dominant could have caused the problem. It appears to be written for people who only interact for play/sex. YMMV.




FieryOpal -> RE: non-physical punishments (1/23/2014 10:33:10 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: highhopes4us

Well I hate when my punishment is being ignored by Master....OMG hate it.......That's worst for me than a spanking

Then that would be your Non-Physical Punishment. [8D]
(Albeit ineffective in the long run)




ChatteParfaitt -> RE: non-physical punishments (1/23/2014 11:11:41 AM)

FR:

I've punished my sub once in 6+ years, it was non-physical, and b/c he played the brat card once too often. He knows better now, and that's part of teaching/instruction and part sheer longevity of the relationship.

I totally agree with Athena, a dynamic that doesn't allow the sub to express emotion or that invalidates his/her emotions is not one I want to be a part of. In fact I would say when your sub is behaving this way is exactly when you *should* listen to them b/c they probably discovered the ability to articulate a need or a lack that the dom needs to know about.

Not all emotion is up front and crystal clear, and capable of being properly articulated. This isn't a sub issue, it's a human issue.







kalikshama -> RE: non-physical punishments (1/23/2014 12:18:23 PM)

Not a deterrent, lol. I would totally act out if I knew this was coming:

1: SILENCE....(length of time <20 minutes>)
(Use a common egg timer that ticks rather loudly)
(upon failure to remain in place and silent EACH step
is taken progressively)
2: REMOVAL OF CLOTHING (restart timer)
3: INSERTION OF GAG (restart timer) -
This SHOULD be done with a sub
who doesn't like gags.
(REMIND the sub that vocalizing is THEIR choice
so control of usage of the gag is THEIR choice too!)
4: FORMAL KNEEL POSITION (restart timer)
5: KNEEL ON MAT (restart timer)
6: COLLARED, GAGGED, KNEELING - COLLAR BOUND TO WALL
(restart timer)




ResidentSadist -> RE: non-physical punishments (1/23/2014 1:00:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

Not a deterrent, lol. I would totally act out if I knew this was coming:

1: SILENCE....(length of time <20 minutes>)
(Use a common egg timer that ticks rather loudly)
(upon failure to remain in place and silent EACH step
is taken progressively)
2: REMOVAL OF CLOTHING (restart timer)
3: INSERTION OF GAG (restart timer) -
This SHOULD be done with a sub
who doesn't like gags.
(REMIND the sub that vocalizing is THEIR choice
so control of usage of the gag is THEIR choice too!)
4: FORMAL KNEEL POSITION (restart timer)
5: KNEEL ON MAT (restart timer)
6: COLLARED, GAGGED, KNEELING - COLLAR BOUND TO WALL
(restart timer)

So you are saying getting gagged, naked and kneeling for you is like spanking a masochist and expecting it to be an effective behavior mod?

[:D]




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