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RE: Homeless in the lifestyle - 1/30/2014 6:07:56 AM

Legacy0381

Posts: 10
Joined: 1/30/2014
Status: offline

This topic has no clear answer because no two homeless people can be helped in the same manner. For the past 7 months I have helped my brothers with a homeless outreach we do here in my local community. Every Saturday morning we bring food, drinks, and supplies that people take for granted ie. Toothpaste, socks, bandages. We help approximately 20-30 people in anyway we possibly can. Unfortunately many of our "regulars" are just that. The majority of them receive financial assistance from government or state sponsored programs and honestly I feel dont want to better their living situation because that would require them to actually put forth some effort and change the routine they have become so a custom to. My career is one that from time to time I am called to respond to emergencies involving homeless people. Again I have my "regular" patients that I know on a first name basis and also know that they are not in need on any serious medical attention but rather looking for a warm meal and a comfortable ER bed for the night. Many times I feel heartbroken for them and treat them with as much compassion as I can, but sometimes I feel that they are taking me away from people who maybe having a true emergency. Why should someone's mother, sister or daughter tragically pass away from sudden cardiac arrest because our response times were delayed because we were helping "Joe" pack up his entire life and transport him to the hospital. So he can have a good night's sleep on full stomach? To answer your question.... yes we should help or fellow man, but when do we say "enough is enough?"

Post #: 1

RE: Homeless in the lifestyle - 1/30/2014 9:36:36 AM

Missokyst

Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline

....in the lifestyle? Or in life?
I am confused how being homeless has something to do with "the" lifestyle unless you mean the lifestyle of poverty.

_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley

(in reply to Legacy0381)

Post #: 2

RE: Homeless in the lifestyle - 1/30/2014 9:51:57 AM

Rule

Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline

I may become homeless myself in short order. Homeless people cannot have possessions, so I will have to give away or throw away everything that I own. I do not relish the prospect.

The only thing that may save me from that bleak future is if the English version of my digital book sells a lot better than the Dutch version.

_____________________________

"I tend to pay attention when Rule speaks" - Aswad

"You are sweet, kind, and ever so smart, Rule. You ALWAYS stretch my mind and make me think further than I might have on my own" - Duskypearls

Si vis pacem, para bellum.

(in reply to Legacy0381)

Post #: 3

RE: Homeless in the lifestyle - 1/30/2014 9:51:58 AM

ElectraGlide

Posts: 1246
Joined: 11/25/2005
From: Maryland
Status: offline

Legacy you are doing a great thing helping the Homeless. I know you feel they are mooching a free ride, but being in the bad boat that they are in, it made Mental problems beyond their control.

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www.starhillcreations.com

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Post #: 4

RE: Homeless in the lifestyle - 1/30/2014 10:51:23 AM

ARIES83

Posts: 3648
Status: offline

.... Am I a bad person... I mean... wow...
You're like Ned Flanders! And here's me, not even wanting to touch a homeless person, incase they had some type of disease or were crazy.

quote:

Rule:
I may become homeless myself in short order. Homeless people cannot have possessions,

First of all Rule, it's "Homeless" not possession-less. You can have all the possessions you want, although you probably won't have many places to put them.

Second... What's your book about?

< Message edited by ARIES83 -- 1/30/2014 10:54:12 AM >

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530 DAYS

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Post #: 5

RE: Homeless in the lifestyle - 1/30/2014 10:54:01 AM

servantforuse

Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline

Shopping cart ?

(in reply to ARIES83)

Post #: 6

RE: Homeless in the lifestyle - 1/30/2014 11:21:08 AM

Rule

Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ARIES83
What's your book about?

Interesting things, Aries, interesting things that all people ought to know about.

However, I will refrain from spamming my book here.

Also, it is being published under my proper name. As we all know, it is best to use nicks when posting on the Internet. Nobody here knows my proper name, and I think that it is best to keep it that way.

_____________________________

"I tend to pay attention when Rule speaks" - Aswad

"You are sweet, kind, and ever so smart, Rule. You ALWAYS stretch my mind and make me think further than I might have on my own" - Duskypearls

Si vis pacem, para bellum.

(in reply to ARIES83)

Post #: 7

RE: Homeless in the lifestyle - 1/30/2014 11:40:29 AM

ARIES83

Posts: 3648
Status: offline

I understand about the real name stuff, but how am I going to find out about interesting things now...

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530 DAYS

(in reply to Rule)

Post #: 8

RE: Homeless in the lifestyle - 1/30/2014 12:51:14 PM

Legacy0381

Posts: 10
Joined: 1/30/2014
Status: offline

I didnt start the topic as far as homeless and the lifestyle. I was a little confused myself when I read the original thread. This is simply my response and was unable to reply to the original discussion because of server issues. As far as if you are a bad person because you dont help someone in need is not for me to decide. That's a personal choice you make and if you sleep good at night, then who really cares what other people think? If the only reason you decide not to help is because you are afraid you might contract some type of disease by touching them is a little far fetched. There are other ways you can help someone in need without having physical contact.

< Message edited by Legacy0381 -- 1/30/2014 1:11:50 PM >

(in reply to Legacy0381)

Post #: 9

RE: Homeless in the lifestyle - 1/30/2014 3:29:48 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

It is very naive to expect people to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps. You aren't seeing their problems, you're just seeing their outward appearance.

I believe it was Oregon some years ago that did accomplish cutting the welfare rolls by offering required mental health treatment. A shocking percentage of the women were incest victims. And it was not until after these old and devastating wounds had been addressed, that they could move on with their lives.

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Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to Legacy0381)

Post #: 10

RE: Homeless in the lifestyle - 1/30/2014 3:42:55 PM

Legacy0381

Posts: 10
Joined: 1/30/2014
Status: offline

Let me start by saying I have no clear resolution to solve the problem... As I said " No two homeless people can be helped in the same manner". I definitely agree that there maybe be some underlying issues. The issue I have with the situation is that even when help is offered many of the people living on the streets are not willing to put forth the effort to correct the issue so they can begin to rebuild their lives. We can't very well call out the patty wagon and have men in white coats swooping up every homeless person for psychiatric evaluations. Like the old saying goes " You can lead a horse to water, but cant him drink."

< Message edited by Legacy0381 -- 1/30/2014 3:45:06 PM >

(in reply to Legacy0381)

Post #: 11

RE: Homeless in the lifestyle - 1/30/2014 3:45:49 PM

kalikshama

Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline

I'm going to address the homeless part and not the lifestyle part, because I didn't see how these connected.

My brother is mentally ill and would most likely be homeless if not for the unceasing efforts of my mother, who has a MSW. It's a Herculean task to get services, which puts them out of reach for many who qualify for them.

He also has a learning disorder on the Asperger's spectrum, so accepting help isn't always easy for him.

The state hospital recently determined that he's not crazy enough to be admitted but possibly too dangerous to go back to the community. The judge had wanted him to be admitted and didn't know what to do with this recommendation, so put him in jail until a new hearing next month. (He's been locked up since April, mostly in state hospitals, on some charges that would have resulted in probation for someone without his mental health history and tattoos.)

< Message edited by kalikshama -- 1/30/2014 3:47:09 PM >

(in reply to Legacy0381)

Post #: 12

RE: Homeless in the lifestyle - 1/30/2014 3:47:24 PM

inmate822210

Posts: 38
Joined: 1/11/2014
Status: offline

Personally, I think volunteering and charity are noble in ideal; but impractical in practice. It's 2014 and we have the means to put a roof over every human's head, as well as food and basic needs. It doesn't happen because that isn't the goal of our society. While people will always talk about ambition and motivation to work being issues, I think it's a poor excuse for the lack of socialism.

But, in reference to your post, volunteering and charity often end up being bandages on hemorrhaging wounds. You can stop the bleeding for awhile, and it will pacify the people until they need new bandages. Unfortunately, this approach alleviates their need to stand up for themselves and demand better treatment or change their lives. We're seeing it with the debate over minimum wage and living wage right now, and finally some people are standing up about it.

I love the idealism of it all, but I think the lower classes need a better push to demand more equality. It's also one of those things where people become dependent on others' good graces which aren't always consistent. They need programs and reform. They won't get them until there is a fire lit underneath for survival.

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 13

RE: Homeless in the lifestyle - 1/30/2014 4:01:26 PM

directiveerror

Posts: 128
Joined: 11/17/2013
Status: offline

i think the problem lies first in the way society trains people to think nowadays(that being on the system is the best, and often the only option) and more importantly with the people themselves that actually utilize "help"... i've been homeless since i was a child, and along the way you encounter 2 different types of people in your situation... those that are diligent hard workers, fighters, and should by all means be fine on there own but having no base, nothing to stand upon eventually always leads back to the same conclusion. and those that cant hold a job, dont want to work, pop out kids to keep on the system and meet people just to claim abuse and stick to the shelters like leeches for a free ride.... they are the ones that actually seek out "help", people that want to be predators look for a free ride, those that could use help would never trust it with a ten foot pole, they stay far away. a place that tells people to come looking for help will never attract those who actually could use it, those people ride on their own morals until they cant move anymore and then keep going. there is no help, and asking for help is an admission of weakness that cant be afforded to those who come from those pasts. change the system to be more selective... to make them work hard to stay in it and stop labeling it as "helping" someone but rather a "job training program" and you are more likely to get candidates who dont want a free ride they just want a chance.

(in reply to Legacy0381)

Post #: 14

RE: Homeless in the lifestyle - 1/30/2014 4:07:32 PM

inmate822210

Posts: 38
Joined: 1/11/2014
Status: offline

Oh, and I just wanted to say (while I know it won't be popular): a human life just isn't worth that much. Can't put a price on it? Check insurance settlements. Check military records. There's a price.

There are over seven billion of us; not everyone is going to make it due to one thing or another. I hate it, but it's a fact. If someone can't positively contribute or show signs of change and redemption, they have no value. It's so cold that it's hard to say, but I lack empathy on these issues where it comes to going out of my way to help a certain target group.

The best thing you can do in my opinion is be good to the people in your life; your family, friends and those you encounter naturally. Don't be too hard on anyone or make presumptions. If everyone did that, it'd make a big difference on the whole.

I'm a hypocrite on this. I go to Boys Town and volunteer to teach physics to the more gifted students; I think the terminally ill are worthy of our time and don't deserve to be alone or without treatments. But these people can all contribute greatly. Even at an orphanage, you can see people who will stop at nothing to make it and those that won't. I go out of my way to find those who have given up to try and see what their potential is and show them their worth.

(in reply to inmate822210)

Post #: 15

RE: Homeless in the lifestyle - 1/30/2014 4:21:41 PM

FelineRanger

Posts: 658
Joined: 9/4/2012
Status: offline

Was there some real necessity for simply rehashing the point (repeatedly proven wrong) that the homeless are really just lazy, sitting on scads of cash, or both? You claim to work with the homeless, but after that post I suspect I know more about the homeless than you. Your ignorance of the histories of these people beggars description. I am also within a hairsbreadth of homelessness and I am neither lazy, nor wealthy. I am a veteran of the USAF, I am also an ex-con, and I can't find a fucking job and I'm stuck living with a parent who demonstrates utter contempt for me at every turn, including threatening to have me arrested on a regular basis. If it weren't for health reasons that require electrical power, I would rather take my chances in an abando somewhere. Have you even once considered that some of your regulars who don't need anything might just be in a situation similar to that? Of course not. Such thoughts would put a javelin through the balloon of your judgments.

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Bill

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Post #: 16

RE: Homeless in the lifestyle - 1/30/2014 4:48:21 PM

Legacy0381

Posts: 10
Joined: 1/30/2014
Status: offline

I can't completely agree with the "job training program". I was able to convince my chief to give some of the healthy men an opportunity to do some work around the department one weekend and offer them a free lunch and some compensation. He agreed and made arrangements for these men to work along side our crew and help clear brush around surrounding homes in our community which posed a fire hazard. I made the announcement at my weekend get together and laid out the terms of the arrangement. Of the 7 guys I offered the opportunity only ONE actually showed up and worked his ass off. My chief was actually able to get him a full time job with benefits with the parks department and he continues to work there to this day. A few weeks later I asked why none of the other men made it out to help the community and earn a few bucks? I heard just about every excuse you could think of that morning. Every one was given the exact same opportunity but only one MAN had the determination, will, and drive to change his situation even if it was for only one day. That one step forward he took changed his life around and stops by my department from time to time and thanks all of us for changing his life. The truth is he changed his life, not us. I honestly feel most of these men don't like authority or taking direction even when they are getting paid for it. One man told me " Man, why would I wanna work flipping some burgers for 7 bucks an hour with some 17 year old punk as my boss. When I make just about the same money doing nothing?" There is very little sense of moral obligation to better themselves. Even though these men hold this point of view and probably will never change their ways. I am in no position to pass judgment on them. I may not agree with their frame of thought but to kick someone while they are down is not how I was raised.

(in reply to inmate822210)

Post #: 17

RE: Homeless in the lifestyle - 1/30/2014 5:25:04 PM

LookieNoNookie

Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Legacy0381

Let me start by saying I have no clear resolution to solve the problem... As I said " No two homeless people can be helped in the same manner". I definitely agree that there maybe be some underlying issues. The issue I have with the situation is that even when help is offered many of the people living on the streets are not willing to put forth the effort to correct the issue so they can begin to rebuild their lives. We can't very well call out the patty wagon and have men in white coats swooping up every homeless person for psychiatric evaluations. Like the old saying goes " You can lead a horse to water, but cant him drink."

Paddy

(in reply to Legacy0381)

Post #: 18

RE: Homeless in the lifestyle - 1/30/2014 5:27:34 PM

LookieNoNookie

Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Legacy0381

This topic has no clear answer because no two homeless people can be helped in the same manner. For the past 7 months I have helped my brothers with a homeless outreach we do here in my local community. Every Saturday morning we bring food, drinks, and supplies that people take for granted ie. Toothpaste, socks, bandages. We help approximately 20-30 people in anyway we possibly can. Unfortunately many of our "regulars" are just that. The majority of them receive financial assistance from government or state sponsored programs and honestly I feel dont want to better their living situation because that would require them to actually put forth some effort and change the routine they have become so a custom to. My career is one that from time to time I am called to respond to emergencies involving homeless people. Again I have my "regular" patients that I know on a first name basis and also know that they are not in need on any serious medical attention but rather looking for a warm meal and a comfortable ER bed for the night. Many times I feel heartbroken for them and treat them with as much compassion as I can, but sometimes I feel that they are taking me away from people who maybe having a true emergency. Why should someone's mother, sister or daughter tragically pass away from sudden cardiac arrest because our response times were delayed because we were helping "Joe" pack up his entire life and transport him to the hospital. So he can have a good night's sleep on full stomach? To answer your question.... yes we should help or fellow man, but when do we say "enough is enough?"

Considering yours was the first post in this Que, I'm guessing no one (yet) had asked a question...but I have one:

Ever heard of paragraphs?

(in reply to Legacy0381)

Post #: 19

RE: Homeless in the lifestyle - 1/30/2014 5:53:28 PM

directiveerror

Posts: 128
Joined: 11/17/2013
Status: offline

i havent been around too many homeless guys so i dont have experience on that end as much, i have know a lot of guys straight out of prison who are getting their life together, straight out of divorces in which the wife took everything and putting their lives back together, old men who tried forever and lost, young guys who keep getting doors slammed in their face.... but they try, and that is why i spend time with them.

you named the problem yourself... only one showed up.
most people dont want to change, they dont need help, they just want to be lazy and you are giving them an excuse.

most of the girls i run into are so convinced that they have to do this... that its the only way, they would never ask for help they would never raise a hand they will just keep ending up in the same place until it kills them. power is in perception, you change someones belief, give power back to them and that can change their life. you cant change what someone doesnt see a problem with. its obvious the ones that dont want to change, they want to explain why they are the way they are, why they dont have power instead of trying over and over to claim it in every way they can.

dont look at it as "only one showed up" rather "one showed up!" ... someone wanted help, someone changed their life.... someone had the power and determination to do what no one else was willing to do, and that is awesome.

(in reply to Legacy0381)

Post #: 20

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