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RE: the poor are eating their bottom line....oh noes - 2/4/2014 11:57:04 AM   
kdsub


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quote:

So jack, instead of paying what he thinks an employee is worth, would rather pay a higher price.


Every man who works deserves a wage that he or she can live on with dignity... If an employee is not performing the job reasonably then fire them...not use it as an excuse to pay slave wages.

Butch

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: the poor are eating their bottom line....oh noes - 2/4/2014 11:58:39 AM   
hlen5


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
I am for increasing the minimum wage to a living wage… not just a few pennies and see how it plays put in the economy.



.................It's been shown that artificially raising the minimum wage hurts employment, basically for the same reason raising prices hurts consumption.



This is already on page 4 or 5 and I haven't read the whole thing. Could it even be considered an "artificial" increase? Real wages haven't kept pace with prices for years and years.

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Profile   Post #: 82
RE: the poor are eating their bottom line....oh noes - 2/4/2014 12:02:57 PM   
kdsub


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Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		I think artificial would be you or I paying taxes that are then used to subsidize the income of businesses. Where a minimum wage requirement would have to be paid by all one way or another but in the meantime the money is in the economy instead of business profit or government subsidies. Otherwise the money will be working for all.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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Profile   Post #: 83
RE: the poor are eating their bottom line....oh noes - 2/4/2014 12:27:06 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie
It's been shown that artificially raising the minimum wage hurts employment, basically for the same reason raising prices hurts consumption.

Where?

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Profile   Post #: 84
RE: the poor are eating their bottom line....oh noes - 2/4/2014 12:34:05 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		I think statistics on minimum wage are misleading anyway. For instance if you look at the years the wage was increased and overlay them on a graph of the performance of the market it looks like wage increases and falling market values go hand in hand.

But.. the reason  or need for the wage increase then as now is a result of a static or underperforming market not the cause.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 2/4/2014 12:37:40 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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Profile   Post #: 85
RE: the poor are eating their bottom line....oh noes - 2/4/2014 12:41:09 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I think statistics on minimum wage are misleading anyway. For instance if you look at the years the wage was increased and overlay them on a graph of the performance of the market it looks like wage increases and falling market values go hand in hand.

But.. the reason  or need for the wage increase then as now is a result of a static or underperforming market not the cause.

Butch

I, and many economist with real credentials, have looked at minimum wage increases and never found any affect on either employment or inflation.

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Profile   Post #: 86
RE: the poor are eating their bottom line....oh noes - 2/4/2014 12:52:11 PM   
kdsub


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Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Just me but I can't see how increasing minimum wage could set off a wave of inflation. Money is just moved around from one pocket to another without going through a subsidy of any kind.

As for employment... I can see where it could make a difference to adjacent states with differing minimum wages... but when applied on a national level there is no reason to affect employment. All business is affected the same... they will pass what part of the new burden they have to the consumer according to normal competition allowances and markets. 


But of course I am no economist...which to me are like lawyers anyway... they love to make things sound more complicated than they need to be.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 2/4/2014 12:55:54 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: the poor are eating their bottom line....oh noes - 2/4/2014 12:52:32 PM   
Paladinagain


Posts: 23
Joined: 11/14/2011
Status: offline 		and yet still , they clammer for "fixing" a "broken immigration system" rather than enforcing the one we have.
but of course, illegals have no bad effect on wages. they are GOOD for america and the economy !!!!!!

everybody knows that...........

"it isn't so much that some people just want to see the world burn but rather that almost all just refuse to see the flames rising now"

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Profile   Post #: 88
RE: the poor are eating their bottom line....oh noes - 2/4/2014 2:26:17 PM   
Artisculation2


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Joined: 10/7/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

Low minimum wage hurts employment. So jack, instead of paying what he thinks an employee is worth, would rather pay a higher price.

Makes sense

DOH!




Low wages are the contradiction at the heart of capitalism and only works temporarily if you have a wealthier customer base. ie. Low wage China selling to higher wage western societies. Play one population off against another. Eventually low wages equalize when the capitalist has eventually a smaller customer base as we see now, with wages seriously dropping and the middleclass shrinking while wealth accummulates in fewer and fewer hands at the top.

Its a pretty stupid way to orgnize a society but then, capitalism has nothing to do with organising society, it is about those with power exploiting society and creaming off wealth created by others. Western crony capitalism has all but destroyed western democracy and is now on the way to destroying western societies.

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Profile   Post #: 89
RE: the poor are eating their bottom line....oh noes - 2/4/2014 2:38:38 PM   
Artisculation2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

But of course I am no economist...which to me are like lawyers anyway... they love to make things sound more complicated than they need to be.



Classic economists are no better than snake oil salesmen, they have 20-20 vision in hindsight, totally blind when it comes to foreight which is why we had an economic crisis in 2008 which was predictable and predicted in the late 80s by many opposition commentators who were told they knew nothing about economics.

Basically, if a politician wants economic validation for a policy, they buy a classic economist. There are hundreds of them just waiting to sell politicans or businesses the advice they want to hear.

(in reply to kdsub)
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RE: the poor are eating their bottom line....oh noes - 2/4/2014 3:03:34 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Artisculation2


quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

And they (WalMart) started out as a small, 900 sf business. One location.



Walmart did it by effectively playing one population off against another. That's how capitalism works. American workers couldn't compete with the low wages of China. Wonderful capitalism, Wonderfully exploitative.

Basically, capitalists get away with what they get away wiuth because they have bought and paid for anbd own so called western democracy, which is really, gerrymandered shamocracy.


WalMart bought its first products directly from China in 1984. Fully 26 years after it was in charge of the U.S. retail system.

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Profile   Post #: 91
RE: the poor are eating their bottom line....oh noes - 2/4/2014 3:05:20 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

So jack, instead of paying what he thinks an employee is worth, would rather pay a higher price.


Every man who works deserves a wage that he or she can live on with dignity... If an employee is not performing the job reasonably then fire them...not use it as an excuse to pay slave wages.

Butch


Why?

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: the poor are eating their bottom line....oh noes - 2/4/2014 3:23:01 PM   
Artisculation2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

WalMart bought its first products directly from China in 1984. Fully 26 years after it was in charge of the U.S. retail system.


And your point is?

Cheap products made by cheap labour, sold in a higher income market. It was the thin end of the wedge, forcing a downward spiral. Capitalism is as much about undermining and destroyng the competition as beating it with better products made by companies employing workers with better working conditions.

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: the poor are eating their bottom line....oh noes - 2/4/2014 3:31:53 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Artisculation2
quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie
WalMart bought its first products directly from China in 1984. Fully 26 years after it was in charge of the U.S. retail system.

And your point is?
Cheap products made by cheap labour, sold in a higher income market. It was the thin end of the wedge, forcing a downward spiral. Capitalism is as much about undermining and destroyng the competition as beating it with better products made by companies employing workers with better working conditions.


Yeah, screw them Chinese!! Let them buy their own crap! Why should 'mericans have anything to do with allowing another country to improve?

Capitalism will slowly raise the standard of living in China, if it's (Capitalism) allowed to take hold and work.


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(in reply to Artisculation2)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: the poor are eating their bottom line....oh noes - 2/4/2014 5:13:10 PM   
kdsub


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Joined: 8/16/2007
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quote:

WHY


Because without that right they will take what they deserve...as has happened over and over through history. I think in the last 200 or so years it has been proven that if a population is allowed equitable payment for work performed that civilization thrives.

Do we want to thrive again or wither on the vine or be destroyed in strife.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: the poor are eating their bottom line....oh noes - 2/4/2014 5:41:08 PM   
Yachtie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

WHY


Because without that right they will take what they deserve...




Leftists are such cowards.

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Profile   Post #: 96
RE: the poor are eating their bottom line....oh noes - 2/4/2014 6:08:54 PM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

So jack, instead of paying what he thinks an employee is worth, would rather pay a higher price.


Every man who works deserves a wage that he or she can live on with dignity... If an employee is not performing the job reasonably then fire them...not use it as an excuse to pay slave wages.

Butch


Why?

Because slavery was abolished



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Profile   Post #: 97
RE: the poor are eating their bottom line....oh noes - 2/5/2014 2:24:38 AM   
Artisculation2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

Capitalism will slowly raise the standard of living in China, if it's (Capitalism) allowed to take hold and work.



Capitalists keep telling us how capitalism is lifting more and more Chinese out of poverty but they never tell you the flip side of how many people tnhey are pushing deeper and deeper into poverty and how many people are in indentured labour which means they are no better than slaves so a miniscule middleclass can grow a little.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: the poor are eating their bottom line....oh noes - 2/5/2014 2:26:11 AM   
Artisculation2


Posts: 47
Joined: 10/7/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

WHY


Because without that right they will take what they deserve...




Leftists are such cowards.



Capitalism has been one of the biggest selling points of the Kalashnikov.

People willing to die fighting against greater odds are hardly cowards. People who happily don uniforms and fight in any shit war or subjugate any down and out or kill any amount of innocent people because they'd rather do what their governments tell them than to think, could be classed as such.

< Message edited by Artisculation2 -- 2/5/2014 2:28:44 AM >

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RE: the poor are eating their bottom line....oh noes - 2/5/2014 3:07:01 AM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic


quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

So jack, instead of paying what he thinks an employee is worth, would rather pay a higher price.


Every man who works deserves a wage that he or she can live on with dignity... If an employee is not performing the job reasonably then fire them...not use it as an excuse to pay slave wages.

Butch


Why?


Because slavery was abolished





So that's what slavery is. If only the South had paid them better

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 100
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