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RE: For profit Prisons are evil: - 2/8/2014 3:47:09 PM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

just from the stories in the past year alone, there clearly IS something wrong with for profit prisons..... something SERIOUSLY WRONG.

Agreed..... The idea you should regulate Judges to prevent corruption makes a laughing stock of the US Justice system. This isnt the first time this has happened either, I recall a similar story from a few years ago.

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Post #: 41

RE: For profit Prisons are evil: - 2/8/2014 3:50:24 PM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Don't agree...I am one of those that believe prison is for punishment not rehabilitation. Parole officers and halfway houses can serve that purpose.

ps... The problems you have brought up are the same problems for all prison systems... If you want to say all prisons are evil ok... but to say just for profit ones are evil I cannot see where for profit or not makes any difference.

Butch

Its simple enough Butch.......... In the UK we call it conflict of interest. Judges cant be involved with any of our privately run prisons. Ergo, no conflict of interest from the outset.

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Post #: 42

RE: For profit Prisons are evil: - 2/8/2014 3:52:31 PM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

FR
Profit is evil
Prisons are evil
Profit + Prison = evil squared

Here we have it 2+2=5. No one said prisons are evil, or profit is evil, just the two overlapping.

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Post #: 43

RE: For profit Prisons are evil: - 2/8/2014 3:58:54 PM

subfever

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Artisculation2

quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

quote:

For profit Prisons are evil:

How is this morally different than 1/5th of our entire GDP being predicated upon feeding off of sick and dying people?

They aren't. The US private heathcare insurance system is sick and corrupt too.

Indeed it is. Nevertheless, the masses will expend enormous amounts of time, energy, and emotions attempting to tweak it a few notches to the right or a few notches to the left.

Evidently; a bloated, decaying, corrupt, unsustainable system is quite acceptable... provided it can be tweaked to better suit a particular political philosophy.

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Post #: 44

RE: For profit Prisons are evil: - 2/8/2014 4:12:55 PM

PeonForHer

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Thread drift:

Polite, at some time you and I are going to have to have a conversation on the question of 'How the *fuck* does someone who thinks of himself as 'right wing' in the British sense keep his brain from turning into sludge when being forced continually to argue with American righties because even those who think they're 'moderately right' in the American sense look like bloody fanatics to you?

How the hell do you stay sane, here on CM? How do you avoid schizophrenia, my dear PS?

You know, I'd start a thread entitled 'PoliteSub's Politics' if it didn't break CM's rules. I really would. I think it'd be an interesting topic - bringing in, as it would, the vast difference between what Americans and Brits, for instance, consider to be 'right' and 'left' wing, respectively.

End of thread drift.

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 2/8/2014 4:14:10 PM >

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Post #: 45

RE: For profit Prisons are evil: - 2/8/2014 4:17:48 PM

TheHeretic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

just from the stories in the past year alone, there clearly IS something wrong with for profit prisons..... something SERIOUSLY WRONG.

Agreed..... The idea you should regulate Judges to prevent corruption makes a laughing stock of the US Justice system. This isnt the first time this has happened either, I recall a similar story from a few years ago.

Well, it's nice to see this sort of honesty, even it the people providing it are clueless as what they are saying. News flash, kids. There are a lot more stories about jails and prisons in the US than will ever make your news feeds.

I'd suggest our players who have never heard of it do a little Google on Men's Central Jail in LA. Read a couple of articles about why Lee Baca resigned as Sheriff. Read about the 18 (now 20) department employees under federal indictments. Guards from the jail went to the home of an FBI agent investigating the abuses, and threatened her in her driveway.

Here is one story you might find, from yesterday's paper:

quote:

A federal grand jury late Thursday indicted two more sheriff�s deputies for allegedly beating an inmate in 2009, bringing to 20 the number of Los Angeles County Sheriff�s Department employees indicted in an ongoing probe of alleged abuses at Men�s Central Jail.

I believe if this judge is guilty, he should be locked away until he is old and frail, and then taken to the execution chamber. Those who bribed him should be looking at hard time.

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RE: For profit Prisons are evil: - 2/8/2014 4:41:13 PM

MsMJAY

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
In both cases it was to provide more money for management.
Pretending that profit is in and of itself is evil sidesteps the real questions.
Who does the job better?
And which costs the taxpayers the least?
Everything else is smoke and mirrors.

According to this report the answer to those questions is not the Private Prison Corporations.

Report on Private Prisons

The advocacy group In The Public Interest analyzed 62 contracts between counties and states and private prison contractors. The analysis found 65% of the contracts had clauses that promised to pay for empty beds if they did not lock up a certain number of people.

States typically pay private prison contractors per inmate. The government has little incentive to cut prison populations if it's going to have to pay for the empty beds, anyway.

These companies rely on occupancy guarantee clauses in government contracts to guarantee profits and reduce their financial risk, since the ability of private prison companies to ensure prison beds are filled generates steady revenues. These contract requirements are an important tool in private prison corporations’ efforts to maximize profits

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RE: For profit Prisons are evil: - 2/8/2014 4:49:38 PM

Lucylastic

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yawwwwwwwn, the ignorant thought that outsiders havent got a clue is so laughable as to render it impotent.
Big news, there are abuses in EVERY justice system
and pretty much anyone from anywhere can google media from the tiniest town on information, companies involved, email alerts show up, I have a number of subjects, issues, names and court records.
im sorry that your belief is that it is otherwise

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RE: For profit Prisons are evil: - 2/8/2014 4:55:12 PM

kdsub

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Should be the same here and I don't believe the judges had anything above the table to do with the prisons... more to that story I'm sure

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RE: For profit Prisons are evil: - 2/8/2014 5:14:01 PM

BamaD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Artisculation2

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

In both cases it was to provide more money for management.
Pretending that profit is in and of itself is evil sidesteps the real questions.
Who does the job better?
And which costs the taxpayers the least?
Everything else is smoke and mirrors.

If a private company is doing the government's dirty business and is making a profit, it is making it at the tax payers expense. But the corruption and the immorality is, it is the state that is incarcerating the prisoner and the state should take responibility and not delegate it to corrupt private corporations.

I'm sure many rightwingers would like to see the state disappear altogether apart from paramilitary agencies to subjugate the people rightwingers don't like.

Bingo
you are off by 180% I think that the government should take responsibility for the prisoners.
However you are off in smoke and mirror land.
States farm out prisons because it saves them money so it save the taxpayers money.

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RE: For profit Prisons are evil: - 2/8/2014 5:17:26 PM

TheHeretic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

im sorry that your belief is that it is otherwise

Otherwise??? No, Lucy, you've got it all completely bass ackwards. That's exactly what I think you have. Email alerts from all your favorite little sources about those awful people in that other place that you are obsessed with. Detailed files. When was the last time you started a thread with an original thought, instead of a twice regurgitated press release, and some knee-jerk typing?

Get a dog. It will get you out of the house.

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RE: For profit Prisons are evil: - 2/8/2014 5:22:14 PM

Tkman117

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So what excuse does that give conservative posters? They do the exact same 99% of the time.

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RE: For profit Prisons are evil: - 2/8/2014 5:41:40 PM

BamaD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMJAY

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
In both cases it was to provide more money for management.
Pretending that profit is in and of itself is evil sidesteps the real questions.
Who does the job better?
And which costs the taxpayers the least?
Everything else is smoke and mirrors.

According to this report the answer to those questions is not the Private Prison Corporations.

Report on Private Prisons

The advocacy group In The Public Interest analyzed 62 contracts between counties and states and private prison contractors. The analysis found 65% of the contracts had clauses that promised to pay for empty beds if they did not lock up a certain number of people.

States typically pay private prison contractors per inmate. The government has little incentive to cut prison populations if it's going to have to pay for the empty beds, anyway.

These companies rely on occupancy guarantee clauses in government contracts to guarantee profits and reduce their financial risk, since the ability of private prison companies to ensure prison beds are filled generates steady revenues. These contract requirements are an important tool in private prison corporations’ efforts to maximize profits

Personally I am suspicious of privatized prisons, Just trying to get the conversation on the real issues.
Thanks for your help.

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Post #: 53

RE: For profit Prisons are evil: - 2/8/2014 5:56:50 PM

Lucylastic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

im sorry that your belief is that it is otherwise

Otherwise??? No, Lucy, you've got it all completely bass ackwards. That's exactly what I think you have. Email alerts from all your favorite little sources about those awful people in that other place that you are obsessed with. Detailed files. When was the last time you started a thread with an original thought, instead of a twice regurgitated press release, and some knee-jerk typing?

Get a dog. It will get you out of the house.

google news ..not emails from the RNC Or DCCC Or Planned parenthood...or stormfront or any of it shit... I dont need it... you wound me thinking im so one dimensional. woe is me.. so basically your guess, /claim/bs is not worthy of anything more.
much like most of your posts obsessing over my supposed life..

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RE: For profit Prisons are evil: - 2/8/2014 8:47:20 PM

EdBowie

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This *is* the story from a few years ago...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

just from the stories in the past year alone, there clearly IS something wrong with for profit prisons..... something SERIOUSLY WRONG.

Agreed..... The idea you should regulate Judges to prevent corruption makes a laughing stock of the US Justice system. This isnt the first time this has happened either, I recall a similar story from a few years ago.

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RE: For profit Prisons are evil: - 2/8/2014 11:10:16 PM

TheHeretic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

google news

Your actions don't match your words, Lucy.

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Post #: 56

RE: For profit Prisons are evil: - 2/8/2014 11:52:49 PM

Artisculation2

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Bingo
you are off by 180% I think that the government should take responsibility for the prisoners.
However you are off in smoke and mirror land.
States farm out prisons because it saves them money so it save the taxpayers money.

When rightwingers bring up such nonsense as collective farms, you know they are out in swivel-head land.

In the modern state there are services that people need and things people desire. There is ample examples that prove the state is better at providing services that are needed and the private sector is better at providing things that are desired.

As for agriculture, western governments not only highly regulate food production, they pay farmers to produce food. The USA and EU pump billions of public money into food production and highly regulate the industry. On the face of it, farmers are private businesses but that doesn't stop them being beholden on the state. Where communists got it so wrong was thinking politicians knew more about agriculure than experienced farmers. It was the way they interfered with farming, not that they interfered more than western countries in agriculture.

< Message edited by Artisculation2 -- 2/9/2014 12:04:15 AM >

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RE: For profit Prisons are evil: - 2/9/2014 12:19:22 AM

tweakabelle

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It's a serious matter when judges can be bought by private interests, and enter into a mutually profitable arrangement with those interests. Both the integrity and independence of the judiciary are critical to the proper functioning of a democratic system. Ideally for the proper functioning of the judicial system, a judge should only consider matters such as the facts of case before her/him, the relevant legislation, precedents, the public interest and the crcumstances of the ciminal when sentencing. Ideally judges (and other high ranking public officials) should place their assets in a blind trust while they remain in office.

Experience tells us that where corrruption can happen, sooner or later it will happen. Utilisisng private prisons creates the possibility of corruption while State prisons systems remain free from this possibility. In practice sooner or later cases such as the OP will arise. In order for justice to occur and to be seen to occur, possiblities of a judicial conflicts of interest must be eliminated from the system where ever possible.

If not the immediate vicitims are those sentenced by corrupt judges, as in the OP. But the ultimate victim is the rule of law itself

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 2/9/2014 12:21:24 AM >

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RE: For profit Prisons are evil: - 2/9/2014 3:25:28 AM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Thread drift:

Polite, at some time you and I are going to have to have a conversation on the question of 'How the *fuck* does someone who thinks of himself as 'right wing' in the British sense keep his brain from turning into sludge when being forced continually to argue with American righties because even those who think they're 'moderately right' in the American sense look like bloody fanatics to you?

How the hell do you stay sane, here on CM? How do you avoid schizophrenia, my dear PS?

You know, I'd start a thread entitled 'PoliteSub's Politics' if it didn't break CM's rules. I really would. I think it'd be an interesting topic - bringing in, as it would, the vast difference between what Americans and Brits, for instance, consider to be 'right' and 'left' wing, respectively.

End of thread drift.