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RE: NAACP protesting voter ID requires picture ID - 2/12/2014 5:22:00 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline 		That has to do with voter registration - not the identity fraud of someone trying to sneak in and vote at the polls claiming a false identity. (A felony less likely committed than either a UFO sighting or being struck by lightning.)

This is not relevant whatsoever to voter ID laws.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 2/12/2014 5:23:23 PM >

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 121
RE: NAACP protesting voter ID requires picture ID - 2/12/2014 5:23:33 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		So 5,200 people who turn out to be dead or moved managed to vote...did they have photoID's...come on

Fraud is fraud... if people had to provide the proper information to get a photo ID perhaps things like that would not happen

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 2/12/2014 5:25:14 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 122
RE: NAACP protesting voter ID requires picture ID - 2/12/2014 5:28:34 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline 		So 5,200 people who turn out to be dead or moved managed to vote...did they have photoID's...come on

--------

Where is the evidence that someone cast a ballot using a false name? I could not find any references for this happening. I also could not find any information that more votes were cast than actual voters. The issue is one of updating voting rolls.

Maybe some zealous man got his girlfriend to vote in place of his dead sister -- but right now all we have is speculation.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 2/12/2014 5:34:56 PM >

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 123
RE: NAACP protesting voter ID requires picture ID - 2/12/2014 5:28:53 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

just start reading some of the existing state requirements for voting.

Interesting but irrelevant to the question of the extent of voter fraud.


quote:

I just do not see the problem with this.

You don't see a problem with a single party erecting barriers to the exercise of the franchise by citizens who are almost certainly supporters of the other party? It doesn't set off your BS meter that these restrictions claim to address a "crisis" that suddenly appeared and which no one's proved the existence of? You don't find it darkly amusing that the party of "less government" wants more intrusive regulation of the bedrock of democracy--the vote?

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 124
RE: NAACP protesting voter ID requires picture ID - 2/12/2014 5:37:14 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		OK... you ask for examples... you are given them... you refuse to acknowledge your mistake ...yet you demand others acknowledge theirs. To me you have lost credibility in this discussion.

The search provided examples that stand on their own... believe them or not. I'll not argue them... They are there for all to read if they desire... if not  then just continue to live in ignorance.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 125
RE: NAACP protesting voter ID requires picture ID - 2/12/2014 5:41:38 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		No DC I do not... voter reforms are long overdue... they should be uniform for all federal elections in all states and photo id is one way to do it.

Just because one party or the other has their reasons for being for or against does not and should not determine your view. It sure doesn't mine.

Maybe it is because there is so much fraud in my area and has been for years...That may not be the case in your area so it does not seem important.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 2/12/2014 5:45:35 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 126
RE: NAACP protesting voter ID requires picture ID - 2/12/2014 5:59:06 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

Just because one party or the other has their reasons for being for or against does not and should not determine your view.

Here I must heartily disagree. I think responsible citizenship demands that we consider whether a proposed reform stems from (a) a sincere effort to address a documented problem or (b) a quest for partisan advantage.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 127
RE: NAACP protesting voter ID requires picture ID - 2/12/2014 6:20:11 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		In my area voters have been demanding their representatives address voter fraud for years.

We will have to disagree... I think there is a documented problem...and even if there were not the desire for voter reform  originates from voters not politicians. If the people want this to come to a vote so be it... it is within their rights and you and I should let the voters decide in our states. I don't care what the political pundits on both sides are saying on the issue... I only care what the voters say.

I can  and will live with the decision no matter which way it goes.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 2/12/2014 6:22:16 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 128
RE: NAACP protesting voter ID requires picture ID - 2/12/2014 8:04:06 PM   
DesideriScuri


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Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
So 5,200 people who turn out to be dead or moved managed to vote...did they have photoID's...come on
--------
Where is the evidence that someone cast a ballot using a false name? I could not find any references for this happening. I also could not find any information that more votes were cast than actual voters. The issue is one of updating voting rolls.
Maybe some zealous man got his girlfriend to vote in place of his dead sister -- but right now all we have is speculation.


5200 people voted who are either dead or no longer living in the precinct in which they voted.

Something tells me that at least some of those votes would be someone casting a ballot with a false name (that is, with a name that is not theirs), otherwise, how would any of the votes of dead people have been cast?

1.8M dead people still on voter rolls across the US. There may be some opportunity there, no?


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 129
RE: NAACP protesting voter ID requires picture ID - 2/12/2014 8:28:55 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline 		You misread the facts. There is no allegation that 5200 votes were invalid. The allegation is that the voter rolls are off by 5200 names because the roll had not been updated.

Glad to see that you, too, could not find any examples of voter impersonation in what your read either. You just think it might happen, notwithstanding the facts that say otherwise.

-----

KD:

You've simply failed to provide a link or any direct credible evidence that voter impersonation is a problem in St.L. or anywhere else. Your example is about another problem, namely, updating voter rolls. You haven't put forth any thing more than speculation that the outdated voter rolls resulted in anyone double voting or impersonating someone on the roll.

Hate to tell you but VOTER ID LAWS won't fix or scrub ineligible voters off the rolls.

If my dad dies tomorrow and remains on the voter roll in the next election, there is no voter fraud unless someone tries to impersonate him, risking a felony conviction, to simply cast one innocuous vote.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 2/12/2014 8:34:19 PM >

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 130
RE: NAACP protesting voter ID requires picture ID - 2/12/2014 11:59:24 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
You misread the facts. There is no allegation that 5200 votes were invalid. The allegation is that the voter rolls are off by 5200 names because the roll had not been updated.
Glad to see that you, too, could not find any examples of voter impersonation in what your read either. You just think it might happen, notwithstanding the facts that say otherwise.


Actually, the facts are that 5200 voters were still registered that were either dead or had moved out. Having taken KD's response in Post#122 as true, my statement was correct. But, since KD's statement that 5200 people who were dead or had moved out had voted was incorrect, my statement was incorrect.

I was wrong.

There was not any vote fraud in anything I read in those stories. Poor recordkeeping, yes, but no actual claim (let alone proof) that there was any vote fraud (it's possible that there wasn't even voter registration fraud, as the registrations may have all been prior to the deaths or moves).




_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 131
RE: NAACP protesting voter ID requires picture ID - 2/13/2014 3:45:36 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		FR
I do not think any one on the left opposes reasonable voter ID requirements. The problem is these new laws seem clearly designed to disenfranchise demographics that don't vote for Republicans. Show me a voter ID law that also includes a plan to put that ID in the hands of every citizen of that state at no cost, of any kind, and I'll support it. But these laws with their carefully crafted list of ID's intended to keep the young, the old the poor and the brown away from the polls? No.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 132
RE: NAACP protesting voter ID requires picture ID - 2/13/2014 5:33:14 AM   
Moonhead


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Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

So 5,200 people who turn out to be dead or moved managed to vote...did they have photoID's...come on

Fraud is fraud... if people had to provide the proper information to get a photo ID perhaps things like that would not happen

Butch

So you're saying that photo id is useless as a security measure to prevent vote fraud, then?

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(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 133
RE: NAACP protesting voter ID requires picture ID - 2/13/2014 6:08:54 AM   
mnottertail


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Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

So 5,200 people who turn out to be dead or moved managed to vote...did they have photoID's...come on

Fraud is fraud... if people had to provide the proper information to get a photo ID perhaps things like that would not happen

Butch

So you're saying that photo id is useless as a security measure to prevent vote fraud, then?


It may be that he is saying that photo ID prevents death and moving which of course is an entirely different conversation.

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 134
RE: NAACP protesting voter ID requires picture ID - 2/13/2014 8:19:10 AM   
cloudboy


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The other story line is the willful blind eye not to see obvious political chicanery. It's no wonder the right never uttered a peep about the Iraq war but could bloviate over Benghazi as if the twin towers fell again.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 135
RE: NAACP protesting voter ID requires picture ID - 2/13/2014 8:21:51 AM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline 		Yes, let's pass a measure measure that all gun owners have to undergo a special background check before going to the polls to vote. I think someone was shot at a polling station once, and we cannot have that happening again.

This just seems like a good idea to me, and how hard is it to get a security check? If it saves lives, I think we should do it.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 2/13/2014 8:23:14 AM >

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 136
RE: NAACP protesting voter ID requires picture ID - 2/13/2014 8:34:13 AM   
kalikshama


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Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

You must understand that a good portion of US citizens would like to see photo ID requirements for voting.

I believe that not just Republicans but a significant number of independents AND Democrats are also for photo ID's.


Perhaps my google-fu is broken - source, please?


I wasn't able to find a source for this. Since you keep reiterating this position, I would like to know that your position is based in fact rather than feeling.

(in reply to kalikshama)
Profile   Post #: 137
RE: NAACP protesting voter ID requires picture ID - 2/13/2014 8:39:04 AM   
RacerJim


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Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

Yes, let's pass a measure measure that all gun owners have to undergo a special background check before going to the polls to vote. I think someone was shot at a polling station once, and we cannot have that happening again.

This just seems like a good idea to me, and how hard is it to get a security check? If it saves lives, I think we should do it.

Given that he himself openly proclaimed that he sought out and associated with radical American Communists, Marxists and Socialists, our current pResident couldn't pass a security check if he had to undergo one so why should anyone else have to?

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 138
RE: NAACP protesting voter ID requires picture ID - 2/13/2014 8:44:55 AM   
kalikshama


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Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline 		That was classy, DesideriScuri.

/tips hat/

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 139
RE: NAACP protesting voter ID requires picture ID - 2/13/2014 8:49:52 AM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
Yes it was.

------

Racer: No worries, if any radicals own a gun, they'd have to get a security check too. I'm with you 100%.

(in reply to kalikshama)
Profile   Post #: 140
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