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RE: Technical Question: Handcuffs+Radiator - 2/19/2014 1:53:21 PM   
mnottertail


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it will transfer and will get hot enough to burn.

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RE: Technical Question: Handcuffs+Radiator - 2/20/2014 4:52:54 AM   
Blueswordsman


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman


quote:

ORIGINAL: WCossey

Well from the experience I have with them if you are talking the standard radiator for homes (not business ones that are a bit bigger and produces a lot more heat) she will feel quite a bit of pain within about 5-10 minutes (with a handcuff with no chains), however the real trouble while maybe a small burn on her wrists (shouldn't be too bad unless you are talking a set of cuffs with no chains) is her back. If she is forced to stay closer then 6 inches away for more then about 25 minutes she will have the equivalent to a sunburn across her back. Much longer then that might begin to deepen the burn and can begin to cause scarring. Depending on what your scene is (I wouldn't mind reading it as well once you finish) I would suggest some type of buffer along her back if you plan on using any type of a flogger or whip after her being tied up. Also I would suggest a handcuff set with at least a 3-5 chain length. This will allow enough heat transfer to cause pain but not enough to cause scarring. I would also limit the time to 30 minutes (or 20 if no buffer along her back). This is just my suggestion and I hope it helps. If you have any more questions for me let me know.

That was precisely what I was looking for. She's fully clothed (business attire with light leather jacket, nothing kinky). The scene is set in winter, in an older house. The cuffs are knockoff S&W police models bought at a pawn shop. No discipline/torture in this one because the abduction has taken place within the previous hour or so, and the only reason they're in one of the kidnapper's bedrooms is because their intended hideout has been 'taken over' by another friend holding an impromptu party. Thank you, you just gave me a time and details that sound workable. This story is more of a damsel in distress piece with a twist rather than the usual tripe I produce.




You can't attach a hand cuff to the radiator itself. You have to attach the cuffs to the pipe leading in or out or the legs of the radiator. Since the cuffs would be loose the heat transfer would be minimal. A person lying next to a radiator wouldn't get burned. A womanb who had both hands tied to the radiator would eventual burn her hands from the numerous times he touched the radiator.

If you tied a woman in a sitting position with two sets of cuffs (one hand to each side of the radiator). She would be forced to bend forward to avoid the radiator. This would be painful but more from the strain of the cuffs. She could go hours without touching the radiator. If you tied her to the radiator she could eventually burn to the bone. Look at some antique radiators. It may help you understand




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RE: Technical Question: Handcuffs+Radiator - 2/20/2014 4:57:33 AM   
mnottertail


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Yeah, not buying that.  The effort to keep the hands clear and minimal contact with the radiator from the floor and even worse standing would be untenable in a short period of time.



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RE: Technical Question: Handcuffs+Radiator - 2/20/2014 5:23:45 AM   
MasterCaneman


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blueswordsman





You can't attach a hand cuff to the radiator itself. You have to attach the cuffs to the pipe leading in or out or the legs of the radiator. Since the cuffs would be loose the heat transfer would be minimal. A person lying next to a radiator wouldn't get burned. A womanb who had both hands tied to the radiator would eventual burn her hands from the numerous times he touched the radiator.

If you tied a woman in a sitting position with two sets of cuffs (one hand to each side of the radiator). She would be forced to bend forward to avoid the radiator. This would be painful but more from the strain of the cuffs. She could go hours without touching the radiator. If you tied her to the radiator she could eventually burn to the bone. Look at some antique radiators. It may help you understand





Tuesday I took a pair of cuffs to work and fastened them to the radiator itself between the fins. It fit perfectly, and while I didn't attach the free end to myself, I did time it to see what the 'ouch' factor was. One minute = uncomfortable but tolerable. Five minutes = pretty hot, and nearly intolerable 10 minutes= No Go!. I think I have the timing of the scene down right as I've written it, but I'll go over it again a few more times before the entire story is ready for public consumption.

I was hoping that one of my smaller customers would show up, as the radiators are lower than most (24" tall), and since I was working, there was no way I could sit against one to see how long it took. There's a wee munchkin of a barfly who comes into my place who'd have been game for the experiment (provided free drinks were involved), but she was a no-show.

< Message edited by MasterCaneman -- 2/20/2014 5:29:18 AM >


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RE: Technical Question: Handcuffs+Radiator - 2/20/2014 7:20:02 AM   
mnottertail


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Well, you have dousing the bitch with cold water, or the radiator is off and it is summer or the boiler broke down......................

improvise, adapt, overcome. 

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RE: Technical Question: Handcuffs+Radiator - 2/20/2014 12:33:31 PM   
Blueswordsman


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< Message edited by Blueswordsman -- 2/20/2014 1:30:11 PM >

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RE: Technical Question: Handcuffs+Radiator - 2/20/2014 12:35:19 PM   
Blueswordsman


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Sorry couldn't download picture of girl cuffed to radiator

< Message edited by Blueswordsman -- 2/20/2014 1:33:02 PM >

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RE: Technical Question: Handcuffs+Radiator - 2/20/2014 3:29:30 PM   
MasterCaneman


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No need, I have plenty to work with, but thanks anyway! I got hold of the munchkin, and she's willing to let me experiment on her this Saturday. I'll just bet my boss is gonna love it when he reviews the video the next day...

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Age and treachery will always overcome youth and ambition.

The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting. ~ Sun Tzu

Goddess Wrangler



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RE: Technical Question: Handcuffs+Radiator - 2/20/2014 3:31:00 PM   
MasterCaneman


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In the story, I have them dumping warm beers on her wrists after they turned off the radiator and opened the window.

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RE: Technical Question: Handcuffs+Radiator - 2/20/2014 4:22:41 PM   
WCossey


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Caneman also keep in mind it depends on how many links the handcuffs have. 10 minutes I am guessing you are using a 2 link handcuffs right? Every link you add will adjust the length of time slightly. Also keep in mind from your story she is wearing a jacket. If the cuffs are on the outside of her clothing it will add time as well depending on which clothing is under the cuffs.

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RE: Technical Question: Handcuffs+Radiator - 2/20/2014 6:48:02 PM   
MasterCaneman


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You are guessing correctly, and my guinea pig is going to be wearing a jacket similar to what was described. The plan is simple: one cuff, and sit as close to the radiator as she can stand until either the cuff gets hot or her back starts getting uncomfortable. Shoulda seen the look on her face when I asked her if she'd do this for me. I've bounced story ideas of her from time to time, so this isn't the first time I've asked her a weird question.

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Age and treachery will always overcome youth and ambition.

The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting. ~ Sun Tzu

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RE: Technical Question: Handcuffs+Radiator - 2/20/2014 8:16:47 PM   
ARIES83


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If anyone asks, tell them your that guy from Myth Busters.


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RE: Technical Question: Handcuffs+Radiator - 2/20/2014 8:36:30 PM   
MasterCaneman


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I'm already known as the 'Whips & Chains' guy down there anyway. And weirder shit than this has gone on there before.

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Age and treachery will always overcome youth and ambition.

The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting. ~ Sun Tzu

Goddess Wrangler



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RE: Technical Question: Handcuffs+Radiator - 2/20/2014 10:41:09 PM   
WCossey


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Caneman trust me on this bring some lemon juice. I know it sounds like it would hurt them but I can tell you with absolute certainty that as long as the skin is not broken it will remove all pain from the burn spots and will heal the burns much faster then normal. If he ends up being burned but the skin is not broken put some lemon juice on the wound then use a soft material (like toilet paper or a tissue) to cover the burn area but keep it wet with lemon juice. Any pain will stop instantly, leaving the lemon juice on for about 3-5 minutes (depending on how bad the burn is) and you will see amazing results. I am saying this because his/her back should be ok but depending on the radiator there might be a burn on his wrist because once it becomes too hot for him you have to add the time it will take you to get the cuffs off of him.

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RE: Technical Question: Handcuffs+Radiator - 2/21/2014 12:21:50 AM   
MalcolmNathaniel


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You mentioned old-fashioned radiators, but there are two main types:

They look the same (other than the release valve) but some are operated by hot-water circulating and others by steam. Needless to say, steam radiators get much hotter. Either way, it will get uncomfortable right quick.

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RE: Technical Question: Handcuffs+Radiator - 2/21/2014 8:36:19 AM   
MasterCaneman


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WCossey

Caneman trust me on this bring some lemon juice. I know it sounds like it would hurt them but I can tell you with absolute certainty that as long as the skin is not broken it will remove all pain from the burn spots and will heal the burns much faster then normal. If he ends up being burned but the skin is not broken put some lemon juice on the wound then use a soft material (like toilet paper or a tissue) to cover the burn area but keep it wet with lemon juice. Any pain will stop instantly, leaving the lemon juice on for about 3-5 minutes (depending on how bad the burn is) and you will see amazing results. I am saying this because his/her back should be ok but depending on the radiator there might be a burn on his wrist because once it becomes too hot for him you have to add the time it will take you to get the cuffs off of him.

I've been reading up on that, and I'd be leery of applying an acid solution to a potentially damaged area. She will only have one hand attached, with the key in so she can remove it when it heats up. I'm only devoting twenty minutes tops to this experiment (which is dependent on who's in the bar at the time as well), so out of that, I'm figuring five to ten minutes tops for her actually at the radiator. She'll be using the stopwatch on her cellphone as will I, so we have two data points to work from. It's a lot of work for a single passage that doesn't quite take up a single page worth of text, but now I'm intent on finding out what the values are for this.

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Age and treachery will always overcome youth and ambition.

The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting. ~ Sun Tzu

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RE: Technical Question: Handcuffs+Radiator - 2/21/2014 12:50:03 PM   
WCossey


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I can understand being leery I am just saying to keep some handy. If the wound is open don't use it however if your test person receives a small burn try it and you will see. Or don't up to you, but keep in mind I have done quite a bit of fire play and I always keep lemon juice and mustard handy. It is just a suggestion.

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RE: Technical Question: Handcuffs+Radiator - 2/21/2014 4:58:08 PM   
mummyman321


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It really depends on the handcuffs you are using. If it has a long chain, I would not see an issue. The ones with a very short chain or linked together would possibly cause a burn.

The old radiator boilers in the USA had the temps set to 140F to 160F degree. Or at least this is the temperature my grandfather's boiler was set to in the Ohio area of the USA. This is the temperature of the water in the boiler. Heat losses etc would deliver water temps of about 120F to 140F to the old cast iron radiator. The cuff that was touching the radiator would heat up to the temperature of the radiator in a relatively short time. Maybe in as little as 10 to 15 minutes.

The hard part to answer is the heat transfer through the chain linking the cuffs together. I would not think there would be enough metal to metal contact area to transfer the heat from one cuff to the other. If there is a long chain, 6 inches or more, I would think little to no heat would transfer. A very short chain (1 to 2 links) could transfer the heat.

You could do and experiment with a hot plate and pan of water and your hand cuffs. Put one handcuff in a pan on the hot plate (suspended so it does not touch bottom of the pan) and set up the other end of the hand cuffs on a towel. Put a thermometer on the water to set the temperature so the water reaches 150F. Then measure the temperature of the other cuff every minute for like 30 minutes. This would simulate the scenario you described.

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RE: Technical Question: Handcuffs+Radiator - 2/21/2014 9:12:25 PM   
MasterCaneman


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mummyman321

It really depends on the handcuffs you are using. If it has a long chain, I would not see an issue. The ones with a very short chain or linked together would possibly cause a burn.

The old radiator boilers in the USA had the temps set to 140F to 160F degree. Or at least this is the temperature my grandfather's boiler was set to in the Ohio area of the USA. This is the temperature of the water in the boiler. Heat losses etc would deliver water temps of about 120F to 140F to the old cast iron radiator. The cuff that was touching the radiator would heat up to the temperature of the radiator in a relatively short time. Maybe in as little as 10 to 15 minutes.

The hard part to answer is the heat transfer through the chain linking the cuffs together. I would not think there would be enough metal to metal contact area to transfer the heat from one cuff to the other. If there is a long chain, 6 inches or more, I would think little to no heat would transfer. A very short chain (1 to 2 links) could transfer the heat.

You could do and experiment with a hot plate and pan of water and your hand cuffs. Put one handcuff in a pan on the hot plate (suspended so it does not touch bottom of the pan) and set up the other end of the hand cuffs on a towel. Put a thermometer on the water to set the temperature so the water reaches 150F. Then measure the temperature of the other cuff every minute for like 30 minutes. This would simulate the scenario you described.


But it's simply going to be more fun with my barfly munchkin, and I'll have a first-person impression to work with. And my boss will have kittens when he sees the video the next day.

PS, but I still would like some first-person (as in you actually experienced this) accounts, just so I get it right.

< Message edited by MasterCaneman -- 2/21/2014 9:17:17 PM >


_____________________________

Age and treachery will always overcome youth and ambition.

The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting. ~ Sun Tzu

Goddess Wrangler



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RE: Technical Question: Handcuffs+Radiator - 2/23/2014 7:30:43 PM   
MasterCaneman


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Update: the experiment did not go as planned. Barfly Munchkin showed up late, and there were too many people in there, so to avoid her embarrassment we rescheduled it for next week. I promised her that I'd only do it if either there was no one else or maybe a couple of her close friends were there. Results will be put in the finished story. Now, I just need a volunteer for rappelling down the side of a skyscraper using just fishing line...

_____________________________

Age and treachery will always overcome youth and ambition.

The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting. ~ Sun Tzu

Goddess Wrangler



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