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PTSD and the Dom - 2/16/2014 1:43:59 PM

TieMeInKnottss

Posts: 1944
Joined: 9/6/2012
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Never know how much people know so I will give some background

I have been involved with a Dom I met here almost a year ago but, do to some irreconcilable differences...we decided over the summer that we would have to be open in our relationship and that, eventually, I would have to find a new Dom and he a new slave who better fit our lives. We are honest with each other on our search and dating...so no one has to feel conflicted in advising me here..He hears it ALL before you all do but sometimes I need more opinions...

Situation- In searching for a new Dom, I keep hitting up against men with PTSD...yeah..I have a thing for military men so it is a hazard.
I know what PTSD is but don't know how severe (other than the cases you hear on the news which I figure are the extremes) or mild it can be. Is it something that will go on for life? Would you be worried about becoming involved with a Dom that acknowledges he has it?

I live in an area with a lot of returning military and am seeing more and more people on both vanilla dating sites and kinky ones that have suffered TBI and/or PTSD. My ex had mental health issues and made our lives a living hell but some of that I attribute to a lack of character on his part.

Post #: 1

RE: PTSD and the Dom - 2/16/2014 1:46:17 PM

ExiledTyrant

Posts: 4547
Joined: 12/9/2013
From: Exiled
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Read my profile, and we can talk on the other side if you wish.

_____________________________

Gnothi Seauton
To lead, first follow: Aurelius, Epictetus, Descartes, Sun Tzu, to name a few.

Semper fidelis (which sometimes feels like a burden)

(in reply to TieMeInKnottss)

Post #: 2

RE: PTSD and the Dom - 2/16/2014 1:52:07 PM

RareByrd

Posts: 36
Joined: 1/15/2014
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I was falling-HARD-for someone from this site who told me he had PTSD. I don't know for sure, but I believe the reason he abruptly cut off contact with me was due to "hypervigilance", a symptom of PTSD. He interpreted a piece of information about me in the worst possible light and then would not engage in discussion about it. This formerly compassionate and even man suddenly became judgmental and critical and then unresponsive. In trying to figure out what happened, I read about PTSD some and found that many of the concepts and symptoms rang a bell.

"Emotional dysregulation", in particular, seems to me to be dangerous in a Dom. What happens if you are physically restrained, and emotionally vulnerable and trusting, with someone who loses his shit suddenly, and takes it out on you? I'm not saying it should be a deal-breaker, but boy does this seem like something that needs to be talked about in great depth before ever introducing a D/s dynamic.

My understanding is that YES, it continues for life, regardless of treatment. Your brain becomes wired differently, and you cannot help but have certain reactions to triggers. You can get help to deal with those reactions in more healthy ways, but the initial reactions are still there.

(in reply to TieMeInKnottss)

Post #: 3

RE: PTSD and the Dom - 2/16/2014 2:03:27 PM

MisterP61

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Joined: 10/9/2007
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PTSD. As a Military man, I can say that it is one of the worst things a person can through (not Myself, but many a friend). It can range from very mild, to takes over every second of a persons life. Some people do not get it, but more do, and a good portion of that is based on where an individual grew up and life experiences.

Like RareByrd said, it never goes away. There will always be certain noises, that will invoke their responses, or visual cues, smells, and others. It can be controlled with help though. Once a person understands what cues can trigger them, and with the exercises given to them to deal with those triggers, it can get to the point where some people never see it. It takes a whole lot of conscious effort for the individual, but some of My friends say it is worth it compared to the alternative.

_____________________________

Proudly married to the "Diva of Destruction" LadyPact
Though the truth may vary, this ship will carry our bodies safe to shore - Of Monsters and Men
What is the maximum effective range of an excuse? Zero meters!

(in reply to RareByrd)

Post #: 4

RE: PTSD and the Dom - 2/16/2014 2:06:19 PM

ExiledTyrant

Posts: 4547
Joined: 12/9/2013
From: Exiled
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Olfactory response is the hardest.

_____________________________

Gnothi Seauton
To lead, first follow: Aurelius, Epictetus, Descartes, Sun Tzu, to name a few.

Semper fidelis (which sometimes feels like a burden)

(in reply to MisterP61)

Post #: 5

RE: PTSD and the Dom - 2/16/2014 2:12:47 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
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Not a vet but I've had some episodes of it.
After the World trade center bombings, I had flashbacks of watching it being built. While driving.

If he knows his triggers, if he's gotten therapy to help him identify the triggers and desensitize it, if he's on medication, that can all help.

So if a whip cracking sounds like bullets to him, then you shouldn't play places where other people are cracking a whip and he shouldn't use them.

Myself, if with someone with this, I would want to do all the driving. I haven't had an episode in years but coming to and not knowing how I managed not to hit someone is scary. I wouldn't feel able to let someone else, who was still triggering frequently to ever be behind the wheel.

TBI or strokes cause personality changes. Not something I feel comfortable dealing with.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to MisterP61)

Post #: 6

RE: PTSD and the Dom - 2/16/2014 2:20:03 PM

Rawni

Posts: 1175
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Maybe MisterP can give input on what I am about to share.

I knew someone in the military a very long time. I mean... he talks about Russia like nobody I have heard since the sixties. lol We were talking about PTSD and this is what he said: The people that come back from anywhere, that go home or go straight home, seem to have a more difficult time with it. They take themselves out of the environment that is strictly military, schedules and sights and sounds that are familiar. Those that stay in, close to the environment seem to have less issues with PTSD because they are able to ease back into something different with the comforts they have come to know, even if they hate the military.

Of course this would also have to include personality, upbringing, experiences before, during and after, etc. but I did think long and hard about what he said and it makes sense to me. I can relate it to the personal crisis or victimization of some other types of experiences that can cause PTSD and see that there may be some merit to what he said.

If there is, I would think this might also help someone know what to do in evaluating a situation.

< Message edited by Rawni -- 2/16/2014 2:22:14 PM >

(in reply to ExiledTyrant)

Post #: 7

RE: PTSD and the Dom - 2/16/2014 2:34:30 PM

MisterP61

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Thank You Rawni. This also made Me think of something else. Everyone in the Military who is scheduled to redeploy back to the US after a tour in any of the war-zones, will absolutely, no way out of it, go through the mandatory screening for PTSD. It is a multi-day event now, and the success rate in catching it before the soldier gets out of the Military is high. It is not perfect, but at least now the Military realizes just how bad and real it is. The number of suicides and deaths caused by these people is steadily declining.

A lot of people don't realize that a simple thing like a dead animal on the side of the road, or a bag of garbage can set this off. It is one of the hundreds of ways that the enemy uses to deploy IED's.

DesFIP. You know I never got that from driving over the Throggs neck bridge after the towers went down. I only got a very deep sadness. My dad used to take Me into the city on weekends when the towers went up (it was such a modern day wonder), so I got to see them go up, and sadly back down.

_____________________________

Proudly married to the "Diva of Destruction" LadyPact
Though the truth may vary, this ship will carry our bodies safe to shore - Of Monsters and Men
What is the maximum effective range of an excuse? Zero meters!

(in reply to Rawni)

Post #: 8

RE: PTSD and the Dom - 2/16/2014 2:42:38 PM

Rawni

Posts: 1175
Status: offline

Thank you MisterP.

A few years ago, my daughter's ex came back from a couple of places. The first round he stayed in and did okay. The second time he got out and went home. Within two years he ate a bullet. The guys he was in with, were shocked. They got it, but they thought he was fine, even his commanding officers.

It is good that as more is learned about PTSD that they are able to catch it. I assume it is a lot like someone with an emotional or mental illness and doing what they need to do to stay on top of it.

I was in relationships with two from VN. One had a tougher time with it all... but he was actually closer to the events than the one later on. The first one... I learned real quick... not to walk silently near him. The other might have dreams, but seemed to handle things much better, but would have a tough time during military holidays basically and then he would be going to the grave yards, in parades etc and I think that helped him. The first I was afraid to remain in a relationship with, the second I could have done for life if it hadn't have been current life that kicked our asses. lol

< Message edited by Rawni -- 2/16/2014 2:44:12 PM >

(in reply to MisterP61)

Post #: 9

RE: PTSD and the Dom - 2/16/2014 4:04:36 PM

MercTech

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Joined: 7/4/2006
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Even without debilitating PTSD; one pics up things from intense environments that STICK. It took 15 years before the stopping of a ventilation fan would have me up from a sound sleep and half dressed before I knew where I was. I was Navy and the first indication of severe problems is the ventilation being shut down.

My old friend "D" took twenty years to get to the point where a car backfiring would have him face down in a ditch. When out camping, he no longer grabs a knife and ducks to a hide when someone in floppy black clothing goes by.

"K" still gets an odd blank look an starts watching crowds intently. If you ask him what he sees, he may answer "target aquisition".

Some things you don't get over you just get functional.

(in reply to Rawni)

Post #: 10

RE: PTSD and the Dom - 2/16/2014 4:12:14 PM

MatureHarlet

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Joined: 12/8/2013
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My older brother has been dealing with PTSD for upwards of 35 years now.
But, his illness was undiagnosed for much of that time.
He is on medicine for his nerves now and talks to a head doctor regularly.
Setting bad memories aside, I admit he has been downright wonderful since getting the proper help.
But, based on what our family experienced, I would not get involved with someone with PTSD.
I would not risk tripping that wire deep inside them.

(replying to TieMeInKnottss)

< Message edited by MatureHarlet -- 2/16/2014 4:14:23 PM >

(in reply to Rawni)

Post #: 11

RE: PTSD and the Dom - 2/16/2014 7:39:03 PM

shiftyw

Posts: 2837
Joined: 6/6/2013
From: The Shire
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I have PTSD (not from military service mind you) that I have gotten mostly under control. I'm a sub- but I'm going to speak about it anyways.
There was a time it was horrible, I was in a lot of denial.

I don't really want to talk about the cause here on the boards, but the symptoms for me come through in OCD ways. At its worse, I couldn't sleep at home alone- I would check locks, closets and behind shower curtains...ALL NIGHT LONG. I would plan (and this is something I still struggle with) in my head what I would do if someone were to harm me again, or terrorize me again, for HOURS. It would consume me. I would hit such bouts of depression. I was also pretty reckless (read: poor relationships, little regard dangerous situations, etc). When I'm triggered, I disassociate. I don't get aggressive, I don't even feel. Its like I'm not even in my body, its like I'm watching it happen. I actually honestly don't think I'm capable of "subspace" any longer because it goes to a dark place for me that I dislike exploring.

After a good friend noticed how distressed I was, and a good few hours of crying later, I got help.

I'd like to say its all just sunshine and rainbows from there, but its been really hard work. I still get triggered (smells and physical actions towards me are my biggest triggers). The smell of cement still makes my heart race a little. I still have some depression. But I'm a lot better now, I haven't stayed up all night because of it in a really long time. I'm in the healthiest relationship of my life. I made it through the hardest year of my life, and being prescribed narcotics, without abusing myself or the drugs. Things are much better. I still have bad days. My man would tell you I've made a lot of progress. I'm much happier.

but MercTech said "Some things you just get functional" and thats how I feel. I will always be a "bottom" only- and not one that is compatible with most tops. I have more fantasies I can't play out/don't play out than most people. For example, some of the most traumatizing aspects of what happened to me was going through subsequent medical tests, blood draws, and doctors offices completely alone and afraid, my first month at college. I will, under no circumstances, do any medical play now and won't do needle play either. People get uppity about this, but they can kick rocks if they can't handle it as far as I am concerned.

I hope you consider the guys though, if they admit to it, and deal with it appropriately- I'm sure they'll make fine partners. I deal with mine pretty internally and between my therapist and I mostly. My man only hears about it when he sets it off and he handles it like a dream. He brings me right back. He can tell when I'm disassociating and reel me back to being there with him. He knows when to be there and when I need alone time. Most of all, he doesn't blame me, get mad at me, or blame himself over it.

If you'd like to know more feel free to CMail me on the otherside.

(in reply to MatureHarlet)

Post #: 12

RE: PTSD and the Dom - 2/16/2014 7:52:07 PM

TieMeInKnottss

Posts: 1944
Joined: 9/6/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

TBI or strokes cause personality changes. Not something I feel comfortable dealing with.

The men I know who have had TBI are all military. As one guy put it, modern weapons and medicine have reduced the fatalities but you are now seeing a big increase in people who survive and return home with major injuries. Honestly, it is the combination of the PTSD and the TBI that concerns me because the TBI changes the person and then you don't know how they will deal with the PTSD.

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 13

RE: PTSD and the Dom - 2/16/2014 8:31:39 PM

Rawni

Posts: 1175
Status: offline

TBI... still has a lot to be learned about and some of the medications they give for TBI can cause some really bad stuff. Hallucinations for my son, erratic sleep patterns etc. They said my son would be strapped to a bed for life and yet, that isn't the case. I got him off the meds, into a mostly controlled environment and then started teaching him life again.

This is different than a lot of people's injuries... but, the point I am trying to make is that they said he couldn't ever be what he became with time... healing and structure.

Part of his personality from before is there... but the disconnect has an effect. Add to that PTSD and whoa. At times my son would seem to be connecting fine, making sense and then he would say... I saw so and so at the window. Oh shit. What if that were a bad so and so? What if I was that so and so?

My nine years with that have taught me one thing. Once in a lifetime... then never again. It burned me out.

I started seeing a couple of men and each had some form of PTSD, non military related. I just didn't have it to give any longer. At first my heart went out to them... they were strong in that time period, but the first shake up and omg... this dominant woman was out of there. I just didn't have the patience or the stamina to keep up with it because it cycled round and round, before they could see, they needed to do something about it.

(in reply to TieMeInKnottss)

Post #: 14

RE: PTSD and the Dom - 2/16/2014 8:37:59 PM

DomDolf

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PTSD can vary in effect and intensity of the symptoms to a degree similar to the difference between stubbing a toe and a compound fracture of a femur. A couple folks have said that the triggers and understanding them are key. I agree completely.

I have PTSD. I served in the military for over 13 years. I can tell you what triggers me, how to avoid triggering me and how to deal with it if you see me triggered. I know myself very well. Not everyone knows themselves as well. How manageable PTSD is will be determined by the person's ability to cope with triggers and recognize when they are getting into a sticky situation. By avoiding these situations, triggering occurs less often.

I have found that it is very important to explain to people close to me what MY symptoms look like. How I will act in seemingly normal situations helps them understand what they can expect. As an example, when I enter crowded places, my behavior of observing all exits, hallways, doors, and examining every person for their "threat factor" means that I will appear "disconnected" form the person(s) I am with until I have determined the space is safe and I know how to move through it if things got ugly. Most wouldn't notice the behavior. There are more obvious things that most would notice. If I see a simple white cross and I think of 19 men that I saw die violent deaths and nearly always cry. I don't watch war movies because of the range of emotions that I go through.

Someone mentioned whips and sounds potentially being a concern. I am triggered by loud noises that are out of context. In other words, if a car backfires, I trigger, but if I hear the crack of a whip in a space where that sound is expected I won't flinch at all. I can go to a firing range and have zero reaction to hundreds of rounds firing. Context is everything for me.

I have had no one ever say they felt my PTSD was a problem for them. I have led a successful business and do very well in just about every area of my life. PTSD is something I deal with, don't like at all, and will not allow to interfere with my progress in life. I would be irritated and avoid anyone that wanted to "mother me" around my PTSD. So, I caution anyone against discussing PTSD more than the person with it does. I hope this helps you, but most of all I hope it helps those that suffer from PTSD understand that they aren't alone.

(in reply to shiftyw)

Post #: 15

RE: PTSD and the Dom - 2/16/2014 8:44:12 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
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Mr P, my father's office overlooked the towers. My favorite restaurant was Windows on the World, up on the 102nd floor. I turned down a job offer in Tower II. My father almost moved his whole office into there, he decided against it at the last minute because the windows didn't open and he wanted fresh air. I knew people who worked, and died there.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to DomDolf)

Post #: 16

RE: PTSD and the Dom - 2/16/2014 8:47:16 PM

Rawni

Posts: 1175
Status: offline

DomDolf... I have respected you from way back and I just have one question. With your experience, would you say that time has enabled you to do better by way of understanding it, functioning with it and maybe dealing with some of it?

Hey, I check the safety of a place too and I never sit with my back to a door or an exit. lol I don't relax until I know the area. I have very mild PTSD and I want to know the exits and weapons in every room. I trigger with doctors, homelessness and crowded places... oh and balloons.. I hate balloons. lol

< Message edited by Rawni -- 2/16/2014 8:48:51 PM >

(in reply to DomDolf)

Post #: 17

RE: PTSD and the Dom - 2/16/2014 9:06:12 PM

shiftyw

Posts: 2837
Joined: 6/6/2013
From: The Shire
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomDolf

PTSD can vary in effect and intensity of the symptoms to a degree similar to the difference between stubbing a toe and a compound fracture of a femur. A couple folks have said that the triggers and understanding them are key. I agree completely.

I have PTSD. I served in the military for over 13 years. I can tell you what triggers me, how to avoid triggering me and how to deal with it if you see me triggered. I know myself very well. Not everyone knows themselves as well. How manageable PTSD is will be determined by the person's ability to cope with triggers and recognize when they are getting into a sticky situation. By avoiding these situations, triggering occurs less often.

I have found that it is very important to explain to people close to me what MY symptoms look like. How I will act in seemingly normal situations helps them understand what they can expect. As an example, when I enter crowded places, my behavior of observing all exits, hallways, doors, and examining every person for their "threat factor" means that I will appear "disconnected" form the person(s) I am with until I have determined the space is safe and I know how to move through it if things got ugly. Most wouldn't notice the behavior. There are more obvious things that most would notice. If I see a simple white cross and I think of 19 men that I saw die violent deaths and nearly always cry. I don't watch war movies because of the range of emotions that I go through.

Someone mentioned whips and sounds potentially being a concern. I am triggered by loud noises that are out of context. In other words, if a car backfires, I trigger, but if I hear the crack of a whip in a space where that sound is expected I won't flinch at all. I can go to a firing range and have zero reaction to hundreds of rounds firing. Context is everything for me.

I have had no one ever say they felt my PTSD was a problem for them. I have led a successful business and do very well in just about every area of my life. PTSD is something I deal with, don't like at all, and will not allow to interfere with my progress in life. I would be irritated and avoid anyone that wanted to "mother me" around my PTSD. So, I caution anyone against discussing PTSD more than the person with it does. I hope this helps you, but most of all I hope it helps those that suffer from PTSD understand that they aren't alone.

This is excellent advice.

(in reply to DomDolf)

Post #: 18

RE: PTSD and the Dom - 2/16/2014 9:17:13 PM

Greta75

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Joined: 2/6/2011
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Could someone here with PTSD experience with x-military guys give me an example of what would be signs of PTSD?
I never really thought about this, but my x-dom was x-military too, he always tells me about his nightmares that he was still in battlefield, he always wake up fully drenched in sweat, but I remembered I always find him extremely paranoid, like he thinks of things I never worry about, it's like everyone is out to cause us harm until proven they are harmless. I wonder if he had PTSD. At the same time, I always felt very safe with him, because his paranoid and takes all pre-cautions for everything and is not reckless. And I remembered he could not stand the sight of blood, even when I am on my period, sometimes I forget to tell him it's coming and he sees his dick covered in blood, he kinda calmly freaks out, but he told me he hates the sight of blood because he seen too much in war.
But at the same time, he looks back at his experience in the military with fondness and joy. He said if they would let him serve again, he was discharged due to an injury. He would gladly jump back right in, and many times look back in fondness wishing he was still a soldier, so I don't know if he has PTSD.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 2/16/2014 9:24:18 PM >

(in reply to shiftyw)

Post #: 19

RE: PTSD and the Dom - 2/16/2014 9:34:36 PM

RareByrd

Posts: 36
Joined: 1/15/2014
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

I always find him extremely paranoid, like he thinks of things I never worry about, it's like everyone is out to cause us harm until proven they are harmless.

That sounds like hyper-vigilance, which is a symptom of PTSD.

That is what I believe caused my guy to reject me.

Hyper-vigilance means constantly scanning the environment for threats, and that can be not just the physical environment but the emotional landscape as well. Sometimes people with PTSD make the instant decision that something or someone is a threat, because it in some way resembles their past traumatic experience. My guy misread by behavior and decided I was "trying to set him up" and cut me off.

Looking at it charitably, it's just a scared person trying to avoid being hurt again, even if the method they are using isn't very sound and causes additional grief. :-(

(in reply to Greta75)

Post #: 20

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