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RE: Freaking Orwellian - 2/22/2014 6:16:38 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I think it is a good idea... Our media...over the air ways and print... are not providing Americans with unbiased reporting of events and that is if they even report events that are important to us.

I am tried of half truth sensationalism designed to increase ratings rather then objectively reporting the news.I have to listen to the BBC for truth in reporting. Our media has been taken over and controlled by partisans who report news with a manipulative political bent.

I find Americans are mostly ignorant of world events, through no fault of their own, because of the political affiliations and the competition for viewership in our media outlets.

Now I agree that fact finding will do little... I just wish the FCC had real power to assure truth in reporting and kick the Fox's and MSNBC's off the air if they don't JUST report the DAMN news.

Butch



I'm going to have to disagree with you completely, Butch, even if I would be perfectly happy to never see the name of a pop star du jour in my news feed ever again.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Contrary to frequent accusations recently, I'm just a gun owner, rather than a gun nut, but I proudly self-identify as a free speech freak.

The entire foundation of our American experiment with freedom is restricting the power of government, and you would hand over control of the means of mass communication because it would be easier than turning the TV off when the programming gets stupid?

Should the Johnson administration have been able to tell Walter Cronkite not to declare Vietnam lost? Or Nixon able to redirect the Washington Post away from a 2nd rate burglary? Should the violent images that turned the tide of public opinion in the civil rights era been subject to government review because they were horrible to watch?



_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Freaking Orwellian - 2/22/2014 6:26:17 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Go freak out over some research being done some where else.



I may be running along the ragged edge of getting silenced around these parts for a bit, Ken, but unless and until, and then again after, I will be a self-proclaimed freak on the subjects of my choosing, and your tears about it are like sugar in my coffee. As Butch is free to change the channel, you are free to leave the conversation

One reason I wound up so ardently rejected the Democrat party is because I actually believe in the the things they claim to value when it's convenient, when those same things become inconvenient to them.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Freaking Orwellian - 2/22/2014 6:26:24 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
This is of course Orwellian indeed but only as misplaced one and a direct result I think after 30+ years after the elimination of 'equal time' statutes.

I am thinking the FCC is over reacting not to lies...but of priorities. If that is case, they are about 50 years late. The govt, has censured news for that long and since the creation of the CIA and in the name of national security, the catch-all for the that new tyranny.

(in reply to lovmuffin)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Freaking Orwellian - 2/22/2014 6:40:03 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
I would normally agree with you but not in this case.

There is a difference in editorializing…and presenting unbiased news. To me the FCC should be able to control truth in news broadcasting without interfering with Constitutional rights… Reporting news is just reporting facts…. I have no argument with editorializing as long as it is plainly specified. Today however this is not happening… News organizations are editorializing or omitting news without the publics knowledge.

When the government started issuing licenses and controlling things like pornography and language the courts made it clear this was not against the Constitution.

I do not want control on programming other than news… The American citizen has the right to unbiased truth in reporting when it comes to the happening in the world… This right is something the various media should have to understand is a condition of use of the national airways.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Freaking Orwellian - 2/22/2014 6:43:58 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Yep your government making life easier and safer.


Okay, this statement indicates that you are not a citizen of the US, and therefore the Federal Government has no authority over you in any way, shape or form.

OR

You did not vote and therefore had no participation in the election of the government, in which case you are being a hypocrite, since the government is of the people, for the people, even if candidate that some of the people chose did not get elected.

By the way, the regulations dealing with the limited sale of explosives to private individuals came about after 9/11 during the Bush Administration.

But the same can be said about the GOP controlled states requiring invasive procedures to be performed on women seeking abortions. Just to insure those laws are followed, they are going to have to expand government to monitor it. Kinda a contradiction of "smaller government."

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Freaking Orwellian - 2/22/2014 6:50:23 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I think it is a good idea... Our media...over the air ways and print... are not providing Americans with unbiased reporting of events and that is if they even report events that are important to us.

I am tried of half truth sensationalism designed to increase ratings rather then objectively reporting the news.I have to listen to the BBC for truth in reporting. Our media has been taken over and controlled by partisans who report news with a manipulative political bent.

I find Americans are mostly ignorant of world events, through no fault of their own, because of the political affiliations and the competition for viewership in our media outlets.

Now I agree that fact finding will do little... I just wish the FCC had real power to assure truth in reporting and kick the Fox's and MSNBC's off the air if they don't JUST report the DAMN news.

Butch



I'm going to have to disagree with you completely, Butch, even if I would be perfectly happy to never see the name of a pop star du jour in my news feed ever again.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Contrary to frequent accusations recently, I'm just a gun owner, rather than a gun nut, but I proudly self-identify as a free speech freak.

The entire foundation of our American experiment with freedom is restricting the power of government, and you would hand over control of the means of mass communication because it would be easier than turning the TV off when the programming gets stupid?

Should the Johnson administration have been able to tell Walter Cronkite not to declare Vietnam lost? Or Nixon able to redirect the Washington Post away from a 2nd rate burglary? Should the violent images that turned the tide of public opinion in the civil rights era been subject to government review because they were horrible to watch?



You are absolutely correct and while the FCC is clearly over-stepping...get used to it. Nobody here, no posters and no amount of righteous indignation is from now on, going to stop the HS, TSA, the CIA, the pentagon or the FBI from doing just exactly as they please.

So count the FCC as a mere tiny straw on our camel's back because constitution or not, is does not matter what laws are passed by govt,, only what rights we have left and only...what laws the govt. breaks all in the name of secrecy and the catch all...national security reasons to engage the 'war on terror.'





(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Freaking Orwellian - 2/22/2014 6:54:29 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers


You are absolutely correct and while the FCC is clearly over-stepping...get used to it. Nobody here, no posters and no amount of righteous indignation is from now on, going to stop the HS, TSA, the CIA, the pentagon or the FBI from doing just exactly as they please.

So count the FCC as a mere tiny straw on our camel's back because constitution or not, is does not matter what laws are passed by govt,, only what rights we have left and only...what laws the govt. breaks all in the name of secrecy and the catch all...national security reasons to engage the 'war on terror.'




You just proved that this year is not a new year, it is one that was recycled, one from when Hoover was running the FBI, and anyone that was not strictly supporting the status quo was a communist or anarchist.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Freaking Orwellian - 2/22/2014 6:54:49 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I would normally agree with you but not in this case.

There is a difference in editorializing…and presenting unbiased news. To me the FCC should be able to control truth in news broadcasting without interfering with Constitutional rights… Reporting news is just reporting facts…. I have no argument with editorializing as long as it is plainly specified. Today however this is not happening… News organizations are editorializing or omitting news without the publics knowledge.

When the government started issuing licenses and controlling things like pornography and language the courts made it clear this was not against the Constitution.

I do not want control on programming other than news… The American citizen has the right to unbiased truth in reporting when it comes to the happening in the world… This right is something the various media should have to understand is a condition of use of the national airways.

Butch



Butch, I bolded a few of your words. That's exactly what I'm utterly opposed to. There can be no middle ground on this.

Who decides what "truth"is to be controlled? What opinion is too extreme? That is precisely the power no free people should ever surrender.

Have you ever read Animal Farm, Butch? It's free online, if you haven't, and a quick, easy read. Controlling the flow of information to the other animals was the job of a pig named Squealer, and he was the only "truth" the inhabitants had.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Freaking Orwellian - 2/22/2014 7:02:07 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
Who indeed... who is doing it now... There are some things that ONLY our government can do... remember WE have control over our government.

If we don't like the way they are demanding...just the facts ma'am in news broadcasting...we can change them.. Now we are at the mercy of partisan funded news organizations... Only giving THEIR view of the world.

I am not against all things government... their very existence is to do things on a national level that individual states cannot do. Making sure we are getting the facts of the happenings in this world is one of those things.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 2/22/2014 7:16:33 PM >


_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Freaking Orwellian - 2/22/2014 7:04:03 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I would normally agree with you but not in this case.

There is a difference in editorializing…and presenting unbiased news. To me the FCC should be able to control truth in news broadcasting without interfering with Constitutional rights… Reporting news is just reporting facts…. I have no argument with editorializing as long as it is plainly specified. Today however this is not happening… News organizations are editorializing or omitting news without the publics knowledge.

When the government started issuing licenses and controlling things like pornography and language the courts made it clear this was not against the Constitution.

I do not want control on programming other than news… The American citizen has the right to unbiased truth in reporting when it comes to the happening in the world… This right is something the various media should have to understand is a condition of use of the national airways.

Butch



Butch, I bolded a few of your words. That's exactly what I'm utterly opposed to. There can be no middle ground on this.

Who decides what "truth"is to be controlled? What opinion is too extreme? That is precisely the power no free people should ever surrender.

Have you ever read Animal Farm, Butch? It's free online, if you haven't, and a quick, easy read. Controlling the flow of information to the other animals was the job of a pig named Squealer, and he was the only "truth" the inhabitants had.



Amen heretic, preach on brother....

Wait, how can a heretic preach anything? Crap another philosophical problem to solve.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Freaking Orwellian - 2/22/2014 7:26:35 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Who indeed... who is doing it now... There are some things that ONLY our government can do... remember WE have control over our government.

If we don't like the way they are demanding...just the facts ma'am in news broadcasting...we can change them.. Now we are at the mercy of partisan funded news organizations... Only giving THEIR view of the world.

I am not against all things government... their very existence is to do things on a national level that individual states cannot do. Making sure we are getting the facts of the happenings in this world is one of those things.

Butch

Do we really have control over our govt. ? Did we stop TARP ? Did we stop the patriot act ? Can we stop all of the electronic surveillance ? Can we now even stop the FCC ? No we can't, not of its really important. Can we stop the off-shoring of jobs and un-taxed profits ? No. Can we force the MSM to reveal real internal govt, OPs ? No. Can we really stop the FBI and the CIA ? No.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Freaking Orwellian - 2/22/2014 7:29:50 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
All those things you are assuming the majority of Americans were against... that simply is not true.

Many times through history we change the direction of our government...and if needed we will change it again... but only when the majority want the change bad enough.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 2/22/2014 7:30:57 PM >


_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Freaking Orwellian - 2/22/2014 7:36:29 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline

You are not alone in your views. It was all laid out in the film NETWORK from the 1970s.

**** Chayefsky’s prophetic vision of television’s future included draconian corporate oversight, evaporating audience share, dumbed- down escapist fare and shows starring real people. In place of “newscasters,” he saw bombastic, editorializing, divisive, larger-than-life personalities. *****


**** But the film touched a nerve, audiences sensed that Chayefsky had tapped into something and it began its march to the place it occupies today, on the Mount Rushmore of movies. ****

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/16/books/review/mad-as-hell-by-dave-itzkoff.html?ref=review&_r=0


(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Freaking Orwellian - 2/22/2014 7:41:19 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
When you have a Country like the USA, it seems misguided to peddle defeatist ideas. My wife's job is to oversee that her financial company does not produce false or misleading advertising. The same principles that apply to her workplace could also be applied to the field of journalism.

I agree with your position.

Why should we accept yellow journalism if we could eliminate it?

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 2/22/2014 7:43:44 PM >

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Freaking Orwellian - 2/22/2014 7:53:31 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Now we are at the mercy of partisan funded news organizations... Only giving THEIR view of the world.




Sure. And more that are pandering to the dumbest, but there are many diverse voices, and we have the tools now that let them spread exponentially. I get a wider variety of news articles off my 'family and old friends only' Facebook page than any particular outlet anywhere could ever assemble.

I wouldn't have a problem at all with breaking up the media conglomerates, but we already have more views of the world than we have ever had before, right at your fingertips.



_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Freaking Orwellian - 2/22/2014 8:06:05 PM   
Dvr22999874


Posts: 2849
Joined: 9/11/2008
Status: offline
I think americas yellow journalism started somethime prior to the civil war with some bloke named Garrison (right spelling ?) beating the war drums and looking for (somebody else's) blood. It may take a bit of getting rid of now I think, unless maybe we go along with Marx's dictum of hanging all the lawyers and ad one of our own to do the same with newwspaper owners. I volunteer to pull the trap on Murdoch and I thank the gods he is yours now and no longer an aussie.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Freaking Orwellian - 2/22/2014 8:08:01 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Cite the authority of the FCC regarding newspapers, Ken.


I think that it is newspapers associated with radio stations and that it started back in the 1940's. But you might want to double check.


http://www.adweek.com/news/press/fcc-backs-study-newsroom-editorial-practices-155673

quote:

"But what Wheeler didn't say in his letter is that it would drop the controversial part of its study that had its researchers question the decisions of journalists, producers and other news staff, leaving lawmakers less than fully satisfied."


All the letter from the FCC Chairman said, in essence, was "Trust us, we're not going to interfere with the newsrooms, or tell them what to report"

A government bureaucrat of the Federal Government who is stating, essentially: "Trust us, we're from the Government." which ranks right up there with "We're with the FBI, we're here to help."

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Freaking Orwellian - 2/22/2014 8:11:53 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I would normally agree with you but not in this case.

There is a difference in editorializing…and presenting unbiased news. To me the FCC should be able to control truth in news broadcasting without interfering with Constitutional rights… Reporting news is just reporting facts…. I have no argument with editorializing as long as it is plainly specified. Today however this is not happening… News organizations are editorializing or omitting news without the publics knowledge.

When the government started issuing licenses and controlling things like pornography and language the courts made it clear this was not against the Constitution.

I do not want control on programming other than news… The American citizen has the right to unbiased truth in reporting when it comes to the happening in the world… This right is something the various media should have to understand is a condition of use of the national airways.

Butch

"Ah there's the rub" whose truth? Was the Soviet Union a militaristic tyranny bent on world domination?
Or a grand experiment breaking away from the capitalistic past to provide the common man his fair share?
Would you really want a government official keeping people from broadcasting the one you agree with?
They should have say over the one you disagree with either.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Freaking Orwellian - 2/22/2014 8:14:03 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Yep your government making life easier and safer.


Okay, this statement indicates that you are not a citizen of the US, and therefore the Federal Government has no authority over you in any way, shape or form.

OR

You did not vote and therefore had no participation in the election of the government, in which case you are being a hypocrite, since the government is of the people, for the people, even if candidate that some of the people chose did not get elected.

By the way, the regulations dealing with the limited sale of explosives to private individuals came about after 9/11 during the Bush Administration.

But the same can be said about the GOP controlled states requiring invasive procedures to be performed on women seeking abortions. Just to insure those laws are followed, they are going to have to expand government to monitor it. Kinda a contradiction of "smaller government."

Did I forget my sarcasm font again damn.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Freaking Orwellian - 2/22/2014 8:15:48 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Go freak out over some research being done some where else.



I may be running along the ragged edge of getting silenced around these parts for a bit, Ken, but unless and until, and then again after, I will be a self-proclaimed freak on the subjects of my choosing, and your tears about it are like sugar in my coffee. As Butch is free to change the channel, you are free to leave the conversation

One reason I wound up so ardently rejected the Democrat party is because I actually believe in the the things they claim to value when it's convenient, when those same things become inconvenient to them.

Paranoia is unbecoming. You imagine that studying how and what news is presented will result in some sort of authoritarian power grab because that reflects your internal desires and attitudes. You cannot show that it has any basis in fact or that this study will have any result beyond the gathering of the information.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 80
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