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I've been noticing... - 2/22/2014 3:59:42 PM

LafayetteLady

Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
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Up in the General forum is a post by a guy who asked a question regarding sadists (as usual can link from my phone). He talks about his "relationship," but come to find out its a pro he is paying.

First, I've got no issues with the pro ladies. But I've noticed there tend to be quite a few guys who talk about their "relationships" with these women. Now I know many pros have relationships, but one can't be a client AND a partner. B a pro sesion is a business agreement and a relationship is not a business agreement. After all regardless of one's professional talents, you are being paid to do xyz. Nothing wrong with that, and I realize that many clients may give broad strokes as to what they want and let the pro do her job with those strokes (no pun intended) but the pro doesn't "own" these guys. Session done, each goes their separate ways until next time.

So is the idea that they are in an actual relationship part of their fantasy or are they just deluded in thinking there is more to the arrangment than there is? I'm assuming reputable pros aren't charging their "romantic" partners for the relationship.

Post #: 1

RE: I've been noticing... - 2/22/2014 4:08:53 PM

Rawni

Posts: 1175
Status: offline

I see a lot of pro's that entice men by stating they are looking for a personal relationship, but to get to that point, they must be a client first, then they will pick the best of all.

We all know where that's going, but I guess a stiffy changes how that might be viewed. We can assume(?) that some of these guys are just hopeless romantics and love a challenge. It's about entrapment for some of the pros. Kind of like a drug dealer... give them some product, make it good and then you have a 'client' for life.

It is like this fix it man I had. I knew he was good to great just by talking to him. His work proved this. Still, I was his favorite client because of this, that and the other thing. Yeah? ROFLMAO!

Sweet talk me baby... will get you into trouble every time. A little sweet talk and some people are falling all over themselves, feeling ever so special, buying into it all. Who do scammers prey upon? The desperate. The silly. The fool, with or without his money. The insecure. The bottomless pit of a person that is toxic in all their ways, needing, demanding, insisting, manipulating... to get what they want and prove they are the best of the lot. Yes, even they can be played. The egotistical... easily played.

You want to keep someone coming back... entice them... work them... promise them and use special names for them.

It may not be only the submissive assuming something is there. They may be being told there is something there.

*Not an all inclusive statement that includes all prodom's or their mark, submissive, client, etc.*

(in reply to LafayetteLady)

Post #: 2

RE: I've been noticing... - 2/22/2014 4:25:55 PM

LafayetteLady

Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
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But those types are not what I would call reputable. Certainly I can remember a guy or two posting about exaclty that, how they need to be a client first and maybe, if they really prove their worth, it can build into mroe, lol.

On the other side of that, I can see feelings developing between a pro and regular client where they both may want to move to a personal relationship.

You know what they say, there is a sucker born every minute. And a boner will influence guys tthinking more often than not. Personally, I don't believe in "auditioning" people for a relationship, and would tell someone where they could stuff their price list.

But when you think about things like that, all the blame can't be put on the s-types when they bitch about dommes. Those disreputable pros make a bad name for everyone.

(in reply to Rawni)

Post #: 3

RE: I've been noticing... - 2/22/2014 4:30:41 PM

LadyConstanze

Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
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There are some pros who have personal relationships, I recall when I was still active, sometimes the guy who was my submissive wanted to play in a professional dungeon, simply because there was all the equipment for suspension bondage and all that, in most professional dungeons there is a fixed rate, you can't charge less, it would cause all sorts of friction in the dungeon (clients being declared as personal subs, other dommes working there thinking you're doing reduced rates to grab clients, you get the picture), so that was how it worked, however they always knew the deal and it was never the only option to play and always their choice.

There were also a few clients I had a friendship with and spent some private time with them, going for a coffee, to concerts, art exhibitions and all that.

I think people should be clear about what is going on, there is nothing worse than a client who thinks he has a romantic relationship, really really bad news, I did rant about it once or twice, maybe more

Getting it mixed up just spells disaster for everybody involved, hurt feelings, guys feeling played and their adoration can turn into hatred, they start stalking... Just not a good idea in my book.

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

(in reply to LafayetteLady)

Post #: 4

RE: I've been noticing... - 2/22/2014 7:38:38 PM

LafayetteLady

Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline

See, now I completely understand the professional dungeon thing. Even from a non pro perspective, I would consider something like that a kind of "date" and being old fashioned me, would expect my sub to pay for the date. Of course, if you are in a serious long term relationship with the person, some finances might even be comingled so even though the sub is paying tthe domme, it might be all "their" money to start with.

Like you said though, everyone being upfront from the start is the "right" way to do it.

(in reply to LadyConstanze)

Post #: 5

RE: I've been noticing... - 2/23/2014 6:10:23 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

There have been some really good threads on this topic over the years about why the client thinks it's a relationship and the pro sees it as a business arrangement. It's not always because the pro is dangling the hope of an actual personal relationship in front of them. Sometimes, it's just because the perspectives are different.

The client focuses on those sessions, and by extension the pro who provided that session, a lot more during their regular life than the pro does. That's either thinking about how great the last one was or how much they are looking forward to the next one. Add into that the client revolves at least some of his sexual life around it. (Not saying the pro is a part of that in a physical sense, but guess who dude is fantasizing about?) The client is also probably in the position where the sessions are the person's only outlet for his submissive/bottom type yearnings. Also include all of those great endorphin rushes and chemical tricks that happen up in the brain that make a number of s-types feel bonded to the person creating them. Put all of that together and it's the recipe for why the client is way more mentally invested in the pro than the pro is about the client.

I've never been a pro, so I have to rely on what some of the more reputable (and that was an excellent word choice that you used, by the way) professionals have had to say on the matter. Many of them have said that they will talk with their clients if they see them becoming too emotionally attached when it is just a pro/client arrangement. Some don't because they know it means risking the client, who is obviously a returning customer. Of course, some of the folks on the boards who are currently or former professionals can tell you more about that than I can.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to LafayetteLady)

Post #: 6

RE: I've been noticing... - 2/23/2014 7:01:42 AM

LadyConstanze

Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline

The thing is, if you don't discourage that emotional attachment straight away and be open about it, tell him he needs to regroup and have a reality check, then you are going to lose the client anyway, only if you lose him because his hopes have been shattered, they are often so bitter and angry, that they turn into people who will badmouth you everywhere, try to ruin your reputation, become obsessed stalkers... This can happen even if you discourage them, but if you don't the risk increases a lot.
If you're going to lose a client anyway, at least in one case you are open and honest about it and your chance of not gaining a stalker instead is significantly higher.

That book "He's just not into you" has nothing on clients crushing on Dommes, it's times 10 and I'm seriously baffled about it, of course it's not every client who reacts like that, but the ones that are a few planks short of the full tree house, they're really in need of A LOT of planks.

The amount of times that guys wail "I am being punished for being honest" if you give them talk... If they'd take a step back and face reality, they would actually have to admit that it's because you care, you don't want to lie, you want what is best for him too.

< Message edited by LadyConstanze -- 2/23/2014 7:22:19 AM >

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 7

RE: I've been noticing... - 2/23/2014 7:19:38 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

If you don't mind Me asking, Lady C, how often would you say it happens?

Edited to ask an additional question. Would you say My explanation in the above is accurate in some cases?

< Message edited by LadyPact -- 2/23/2014 7:29:01 AM >

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to LadyConstanze)

Post #: 8

RE: I've been noticing... - 2/23/2014 7:32:19 AM

RedMagic1

Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze
That book "He's just not into you" has nothing on clients crushing on Dommes, it's times 10 and I'm seriously baffled about it,

It cuts the other way, though, too. A regular poster on the boards met her longtime bf because he was a client when she was a pro switch. A good friend of mine owns a (vanilla) business, and her bf of 3 years is one of her former customers. There are (nonsexual) massage therapists who date from their clientele, and others who never date from their clientele.

I have no idea what the numbers are, but I suppose it would have to be true that more men crush on prodommes than prodommes date clients. Maybe part of the issue is, "Here's a woman who accepts me and all my kinks. And she looks nice." Combine that with an orgasm or three, and the man's in love -- just like the vanilla woman who gets swept off her feet and is sure the guy she met is The One.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to LadyConstanze)

Post #: 9

RE: I've been noticing... - 2/23/2014 7:37:03 AM

LadyConstanze

Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline

Pretty hard to give an answer to that, but it was one of the things pro-Dommes talked most and how to avoid it (bringing up OH's and never admitting you are single, even if you are, etc.)

For me it's hard to answer because it's going back some time, and I might never have apprenticed if the life-style community would have offered me the knowledge I was looking for, but the women were seriously stand-offish (the stuff I heard and that was thrown at me, it really turned me off, pretty much comparable to what some of the guys on the other side say when you give them a polite "no thanks" only from the women). I was only ever a part time pro and I had the luck that my first mentor had an iron fist, wouldn't train anybody who didn't have a job (being a student didn't cut it, I also needed to have additional income as there was no payment for quite a while and she said a job would keep us grounded - she was damned right, saw far too many dommes burning out as they were forced to accept sessions they hated just to pay the rent and lost all enthusiasm for it), it was one of the first lectures and she kept on repeating it.

Being primarily a sadist, I think I might have encountered them a lot less and was able to quench it before it became obvious (without hurting feelings), I think it happens a lot more with dommes that specialize in just D/s and especially cross dressing and age play, because even in the life-style community that is not easy to find for guys, or to be accepted for it as a partner in a "regular" relationship.

If you think that I spent on average 1 to 2 evenings a week in a dungeon, and every 3 months you had to have the talk between once to 5 times, that possibly gives you an idea.

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 10

RE: I've been noticing... - 2/23/2014 7:46:07 AM

LadyConstanze

Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

I have no idea what the numbers are, but I suppose it would have to be true that more men crush on prodommes than prodommes date clients. Maybe part of the issue is, "Here's a woman who accepts me and all my kinks. And she looks nice." Combine that with an orgasm or three, and the man's in love -- just like the vanilla woman who gets swept off her feet and is sure the guy she met is The One.

I worked in a lot of jobs during university, if you work bar you get guys trying to ask you out and all that, but it's simply different in a pro environment, guys get fixated. And yes, I do think it is because, for some possibly for the first time in their lives, they aren't judged for their kinks and they believe that having this woman as a partner would be riding into the sunset and being happy ever after.

Let's face it, anybody who ever spent more than a few hours at a professional dungeon possibly has heard it all before and is pretty hard to shock.

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

(in reply to RedMagic1)

Post #: 11

RE: I've been noticing... - 2/23/2014 7:49:00 AM

RedMagic1

Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze
Let's face it, anybody who ever spent more than a few hours at a professional dungeon possibly has heard it all before and is pretty hard to shock.

Is it bad that now I really really want to figure out a way to shock you?

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to LadyConstanze)

Post #: 12

RE: I've been noticing... - 2/23/2014 7:50:47 AM

LadyConstanze

Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze
Let's face it, anybody who ever spent more than a few hours at a professional dungeon possibly has heard it all before and is pretty hard to shock.

Is it bad that now I really really want to figure out a way to shock you?

Taking me to dinner with a gift card won't work anymore ;)

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

(in reply to RedMagic1)

Post #: 13

RE: I've been noticing... - 2/23/2014 7:51:16 AM

RedMagic1

Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline

Hell, that story shocked me!!!!

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to LadyConstanze)

Post #: 14

RE: I've been noticing... - 2/23/2014 8:07:27 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze
Pretty hard to give an answer to that, but it was one of the things pro-Dommes talked most and how to avoid it (bringing up OH's and never admitting you are single, even if you are, etc.)

For me it's hard to answer because it's going back some time, and I might never have apprenticed if the life-style community would have offered me the knowledge I was looking for, but the women were seriously stand-offish (the stuff I heard and that was thrown at me, it really turned me off, pretty much comparable to what some of the guys on the other side say when you give them a polite "no thanks" only from the women). I was only ever a part time pro and I had the luck that my first mentor had an iron fist, wouldn't train anybody who didn't have a job (being a student didn't cut it, I also needed to have additional income as there was no payment for quite a while and she said a job would keep us grounded - she was damned right, saw far too many dommes burning out as they were forced to accept sessions they hated just to pay the rent and lost all enthusiasm for it), it was one of the first lectures and she kept on repeating it.

Being primarily a sadist, I think I might have encountered them a lot less and was able to quench it before it became obvious (without hurting feelings), I think it happens a lot more with dommes that specialize in just D/s and especially cross dressing and age play, because even in the life-style community that is not easy to find for guys, or to be accepted for it as a partner in a "regular" relationship.

If you think that I spent on average 1 to 2 evenings a week in a dungeon, and every 3 months you had to have the talk between once to 5 times, that possibly gives you an idea.

A lot of what you are saying here really makes sense to Me, especially the part that I put in different color. From what I have seen just as a lifestyle chick, those desires run pretty deep, and from an emotional aspect for the client, it might be the only acceptance that they get. I'd have to think that would pull a person in a certain direction.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to LadyConstanze)

Post #: 15

RE: I've been noticing... - 2/23/2014 8:11:14 AM

DarkSteven

Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline

It's generally not done. That said, Tasha and I met a pro Domme a month ago, and have played with her at parties since. She has one name/persona as a pro, and another, more playful one as just her. She has three slaves, of whom we've met one, and the one we've met is part of her non-pro life while at the same time we suspect he remains a paying client as well.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 16

RE: I've been noticing... - 2/23/2014 8:13:08 AM

LadyConstanze

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Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline

In a way it is hard to blame the guys, on the other hand, those are usually successful business men, somebody who can afford to spend 250 to 300 every other week on a session must have a pretty good job, they don't tend to give well paying jobs to people that are absolutely stupid, but when it comes to BDSM far too many people just leave their brain along with the hat at the coat check!

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 17

RE: I've been noticing... - 2/23/2014 8:19:37 AM

GoddessManko

Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/6/2013
From: Dante's Inferno
Status: offline

My issue with the whole pro/fin domme thing is when people misrepresent themselves/ do not represent themselves authentically. Some are scammers and suddenly ALL pro/findommes are classified into that group, and it's a shame. Some have to look beyond the aesthetic, and it's irresponsible (as an intelligent individual) not to do so just for the sake of immediate gratification. But whatever floats their boat I guess...
And Rawni, EXTREMELY good and interesting point made there.

_____________________________

Happy consent is the name of the game. You are my perfect Mistress. - my collared.

http://submissivemale.blogspot.com/

The Bird of Hermes is my name, eating my wings to make me tame.

(in reply to LadyConstanze)

Post #: 18

RE: I've been noticing... - 2/23/2014 8:21:17 AM

RedMagic1

Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline

There's a respected malesub poster here, with whom I tend to agree. My biggest disagreement with him came when I stated that, when you got right down to it, it wasn't possible to be in charge of the finances and still be the submissive partner in a relationship. He disagreed, and gave an example of how he put his domme through school, while being sub to her. This was a guy with an "adult" job, who essentially paid her way on a "femdom scholarship."

I don't know how they met, and it's none of my business. But I think it's too simplistic to say that "it isn't a relationship if money changes hands." For literally thousands of years, there was no officially-sanctioned relationship unless money really did change hands. Even in the 21st century, there are shades of grey, no pun intended.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to LadyConstanze)

Post #: 19

RE: I've been noticing... - 2/23/2014 8:30:43 AM

LadyConstanze

Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

It's generally not done. That said, Tasha and I met a pro Domme a month ago, and have played with her at parties since. She has one name/persona as a pro, and another, more playful one as just her. She has three slaves, of whom we've met one, and the one we've met is part of her non-pro life while at the same time we suspect he remains a paying client as well.

I think it's not uncommon and as long as the parameters are clear and it's all in the open, no leading on, it's great and up to the people. As I said, a personal submissive of mine sometimes was a paying client in the dungeon, because he loved the environment and as a client he could specify which implements I'd use on him there, suspension bondage and all that, of course I then had the liberty later to "punish" him for being a very demanding client. Seriously, it was never an issue with us and more like a game, a bit like if one of my friends is a chef, if he invites me to his place, I don't expect to get charged, if I go to the restaurant where he works, I obviously expect to be footing the bill for my order.

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 20

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