RE: Republican Position on the Ukraine (Full Version)

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MercTech -> RE: Republican Position on the Ukraine (3/2/2014 9:59:21 AM)

The United States position on Ukraine is the same as it always was, almost all the way around the world from it.

I still can't figure out how the U.S. Government got deputized to be the world police force.



Musicmystery -> RE: Republican Position on the Ukraine (3/2/2014 10:44:56 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
What do you think it will be?

I think it will be the exact same kind of response a Republican president would get from the Democrats.

No, I don't think so. Bush moved forward with bipartisan support (unfortunately).



Musicmystery -> RE: Republican Position on the Ukraine (3/2/2014 10:46:28 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

The United States position on Ukraine is the same as it always was, almost all the way around the world from it.

I still can't figure out how the U.S. Government got deputized to be the world police force.

To be fair, the Ukraine situation does have significant impact for the rest of the world, including us. Essentially a new east/west divide, and in a nuclear country.



kdsub -> RE: Republican Position on the Ukraine (3/2/2014 11:11:39 AM)

OK common sense… it makes no difference what is in the treaty. The US will not respond with any kind of force even if Russia invades and takes over the whole country.

The most they will do is call for condemnation in the UN and try to get western allies to participate in a economical boycott… Which will not happen because of dependence on Russian oil.

The citizens of the US are tired of war and will not support another intervention. Republicans will try to get as much political gain as possible but they understand we are powerless to interfere.

This is not an Iran… or Iraq… this is a nuclear nation with the means to back up their actions. When it comes to their borders they will back it up and will not back down.

We will not do a damn thing and I agree we shouldn’t

Butch



Owner59 -> RE: Republican Position on the Ukraine (3/2/2014 4:07:11 PM)

"
Sen Lindsey Graham wants Obama to stop being mean to Putin on television"

"Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) on Sunday explained that President Obama is not a manly man like he is. Graham says that Obama has not displayed enough strength in approaching Russian President Vladimir Putin.  Unlike Lindsey who would stomp into Vladimir Putintang’s office with his hands on his hips and tell him a thing or two."

[sm=rofl.gif]


 



Politesub53 -> RE: Republican Position on the Ukraine (3/2/2014 4:15:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

The United States position on Ukraine is the same as it always was, almost all the way around the world from it.

I still can't figure out how the U.S. Government got deputized to be the world police force.


Over the years, it deputised itself.



jlf1961 -> RE: Republican Position on the Ukraine (3/2/2014 4:18:46 PM)

Alright, there is a lot of us ancient, prehistoric cold war troopers running around that really dont like Russia.

So to help the DoD budget, let all of us angry old farts go over and show these young "soldiers" the proper way of dealing Sovi uh, Russians. The US government can disavow all knowledge of what us senile old death merchants are up to.



epiphiny43 -> RE: Republican Position on the Ukraine (3/2/2014 4:27:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

The United States position on Ukraine is the same as it always was, almost all the way around the world from it.

I still can't figure out how the U.S. Government got deputized to be the world police force.

Someone with a bit of experience in the matter said something to the effect of: "For the triumph of Evil it is only necessary for good men to do nothing."
We have to live in the world that results from every important (whether it's realized at the time or not) action on the planet. There IS no 'Isolation' in a global economy and with numerous armies capable of global force projection.
We put an oar in the water when things get screwy or we do a lot bigger rescue or mitigation/relief/war efforts too late to do any damn good.
Putin obviously would love to rebuild the USSR under Russian hegemony. His geographic and ex-soviet neighbors stop the process now or they are doomed to be annexed piecemeal. And China really doesn't need it's back door threatened by an expansionist power as it faces the US and ASEAN nations around it's coast. But China may be seduced by letting Russia's example give carte blanche to any growing state if the UN proves to be toothless when confronted.



epiphiny43 -> RE: Republican Position on the Ukraine (3/2/2014 4:37:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Alright, there is a lot of us ancient, prehistoric cold war troopers running around that really dont like Russia.

So to help the DoD budget, let all of us angry old farts go over and show these young "soldiers" the proper way of dealing Sovi uh, Russians. The US government can disavow all knowledge of what us senile old death merchants are up to.

This is sarcasm I'm thinking? Any forces confronting Russian regular army without USAF/NATO air superiority are very short lived. Russia has the most integrated attack helicopter and artillery support short of a full US or possibly IDF body. Irregulars without full logistical, C3I and air cover support are quickly just crispy fertilizer. Even asymmetric attritional warfare (Taliban/Al Qaeda) doesn't work if scorched earth/no survivors is acceptable policy.



Owner59 -> RE: Republican Position on the Ukraine (3/2/2014 5:29:37 PM)

[image]http://media.portland.indymedia.org/images/2005/02/312287.jpg[/image]



jlf1961 -> RE: Republican Position on the Ukraine (3/2/2014 5:48:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: epiphiny43


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Alright, there is a lot of us ancient, prehistoric cold war troopers running around that really dont like Russia.

So to help the DoD budget, let all of us angry old farts go over and show these young "soldiers" the proper way of dealing Sovi uh, Russians. The US government can disavow all knowledge of what us senile old death merchants are up to.

This is sarcasm I'm thinking? Any forces confronting Russian regular army without USAF/NATO air superiority are very short lived. Russia has the most integrated attack helicopter and artillery support short of a full US or possibly IDF body. Irregulars without full logistical, C3I and air cover support are quickly just crispy fertilizer. Even asymmetric attritional warfare (Taliban/Al Qaeda) doesn't work if scorched earth/no survivors is acceptable policy.



Well there were a list of "toys"that I was going to request, you know the kind of things that the government can really do without, and also the help of a certain physicist at Cal tech. He been doing really cool things with rail guns.



Owner59 -> RE: Republican Position on the Ukraine (3/2/2014 8:18:08 PM)

Since the gop-putin-scissoring-thread is locked.....

" Current Russian president and former KGB officer Vladimir Putin has been awarded the Tea Party Patriots’ coveted “Freedom Lover of the Year” award for 2013. Mark Meckler, co-founder of the Tea Party Patriots, said that the organization chose Mr. Putin—a former member of USSR’s Communist Party—to receive its highest honor because of his “efforts to prevent war in Syria” and his “brave stance against President Obama’s socialist policies.”
“We’ve been really impressed by Mr. Putin’s obvious love of freedom this year,” Meckler said in a YouTube video announcing the decision. “The way he stood up to Obama’s tyrannous plans to bomb Syria just made our hearts flutter. He’s quite handsome, too.”

- See more at: http://www.newslo.com/tea-party-names-former-kgb-agent-vladimir-putin-freedom-lover-of-the-year/#sthash.lCXzgryu.Jp8Y9tog.dpuf


Works good hear, considering putin`s recent actions......



tweakabelle -> RE: Republican Position on the Ukraine (3/2/2014 8:59:00 PM)

Absent from most commentary on the current situation in the Ukraine has been a historical perspective. Conservative former Australian PM Malcolm Fraser analyses the Ukranian crisis through the perspective of history and comes up with some surprising findings:

" [After the end of the cold war, T]here were many ways in which the former members of the Soviet Union in eastern Europe could have been given security for the future. Nato chose to provide that security by moving eastward to the borders of Russia. The then president, Gorbachev, in negotiating with secretary of state, James Baker, had insisted that Nato should not move one foot east – this was an area of traditional Russian influence. President Clinton pushed to expand the Nato alliance to the very borders of Russia. There was talk of Ukraine and Georgia being included.
The move east, despite the negotiations held with Gorbachev, was provocative, unwise and a very clear signal to Russia: we are not willing to make you a co-operative partner in the management of European or world affairs; we will exercise the power available to us and you will have to put up with it.


http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/mar/03/ukraine-theres-no-way-out-unless-the-west-understands-its-past-mistakes


Fraser comments caustically that "the west has once again chosen some unsavoury partners and that does not augur well for the future. Milne then described the elements then fighting the government as pro-fascist, pro-nazi, anti-Jew."

In the rush to minimise Russian influence and power has the West been the provocateur? Is the West once again supporting very unsavoury elements in an unprincipled attempt to realise its goals? We all know how that turns out in the end don't we?



cloudboy -> RE: Republican Position on the Ukraine (3/3/2014 7:28:21 AM)

I gather the rightist were hitting their "report" buttons with a fury.

How long will it take for the right wing fringe to be put back onto the fringe?



Owner59 -> RE: Republican Position on the Ukraine (3/3/2014 7:39:22 AM)

GoBama!


http://qz.com/183182/the-markets-are-punishing-russia-more-swiftly-than-diplomats-ever-could/

Strongly worded statements, threats of travel restrictions, and summit no-shows. So far, these are the relatively mild diplomatic implications for Russia of itsincursion into Ukraine, as few in the West can stomach an open military confrontation with Moscow over its apparent occupation of Crimea.


1

But the markets are punishing Russia much more swiftly than the diplomats. A wide range of Russian assets—stocks, bonds, and the ruble—plunged in value today. To shore up the ruble, which is plumbing record depths, Russia’s central bank unexpectedly hiked interest rates today. It ratcheted up the benchmark one-week rate from 5.5% to 7%, and traders report that the central bank has also been spending billions of dollars in currency markets to stem the fall in the value of the ruble.




Kirata -> RE: Republican Position on the Ukraine (3/3/2014 7:49:16 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

I gather the rightist were hitting their "report" buttons with a fury.

I don't know if that happened, but I wouldn't put it past them. Silencing "lefties" just because of their personal attacks doesn't seem fair. I mean, they're doing the best the can. How can it be right to discriminate against the afflicted?

K.




Lucylastic -> RE: Republican Position on the Ukraine (3/3/2014 8:00:07 AM)

six of one and half a dozen of the other



mnottertail -> RE: Republican Position on the Ukraine (3/3/2014 8:16:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

I gather the rightist were hitting their "report" buttons with a fury.

I don't know if that happened, but I wouldn't put it past them. Silencing "lefties" just because of their personal attacks doesn't seem fair. I mean, they're doing the best the can. How can it be right to discriminate against the afflicted?

K.




They can't; their afflictions are too great.



MercTech -> RE: Republican Position on the Ukraine (3/3/2014 8:16:43 AM)

Hmmm, the Ukraine has the seaport that is the terminus of the natural gas pipeline out of Russia.

Here we go again, another oil war.



Phydeaux -> RE: Republican Position on the Ukraine (3/3/2014 8:24:13 AM)

Yeah, the yearnings of a people to elect their own government had nothing to do with it.




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