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RE: Republican Position on the Ukraine - 3/6/2014 3:06:55 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Ok, thanks, I stand corrected on number one.

You're welcome, and I'll grant your second point about "much ado". But in my opinion, calling the Russian response to Crimea's request for assistance in maintaining peace and security an "Invasion of Ukraine!" is more provocative of "ado" than the assistance itself.

K.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 121
RE: Republican Position on the Ukraine - 3/6/2014 3:17:45 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Yeah, that is a real tricky bit, but like the US would be big ass at American
Samoa should they vote to go with say Portugal..........

And there is some heft to the argument that Crimea has been front loaded with Russians and is not the will of 'real' Crimeans.

Almost as if First Generation Mexicans took over the West and Southwest again and started passing laws about Mexico.

At this point and with the Treaty between Russia and Crimea (and with Ukraine as well) their presence in stabilizing the port (and even some of it under pretense if that is the case) in the Crimea, isnt an invasion by any stretch of the imagination.  I would be ok calling it an incursion, but that is strong too.

It is not a clear easy cut and dried thing here, Ukraine and Russia got to  negotiate a settlement, Ukraine and Crimea, and Russia and Crimea.........and they all gotta be ok with whatever it is they can negotiate. 

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 122
RE: Republican Position on the Ukraine - 3/6/2014 3:44:39 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

I don't have a problem with pic of him. He's not a bad looking man but I am curious about your obsession with the guy. I always got the impression you didn't like him but he seems to occupy your every thought. And now every other post has his face shining back. Makes me think you can't get enough and post them just so you can scroll through and admire that strong jaw line.


The irony of a personal attack from someone who moans about them wont be lost on many of us.

Your personal attack on owner, does nothing to alter the fact Bush was, is, and will be an arsehole, along with Blair.

The more photos of these two clowns, the better, lest we forget. At least our Labour Party are trying to distance thereselves from the former Golden Boy.




Good point polite.Thanks much.

If we were only talking about sports teams losing or losing a shit load of money it would be one thing.

But the amount of dead soldiers both British and American lost through blair and bush`s bad faith acts make the tragedy real and lasting.....

There`s no equivalency to that treachery and damage done.....and no real sympathy for republicans who whine how unfair it is to point out all the dead soldiers they helped get killed.



_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 123
RE: Republican Position on the Ukraine - 3/6/2014 4:10:53 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

I don't have a problem with pic of him. He's not a bad looking man but I am curious about your obsession with the guy. I always got the impression you didn't like him but he seems to occupy your every thought...

Your personal attack on owner, does nothing to alter the fact Bush was, is, and will be an arsehole...

Maybe so, but I think boi is into something. You gotta admit, Owner has made a career out of channeling him.

If you're not with us, you're against us.

In fact, come to think of it....

K.


(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 124
RE: Republican Position on the Ukraine - 3/6/2014 4:17:14 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Owners reply to me says it all.......

Many of us wont forgive either Blair or Bush for the needless loss of life, more so since there has been no real change for the people of Iraq.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 125
RE: Republican Position on the Ukraine - 3/6/2014 4:40:20 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Owners reply to me says it all.......

Really, eh? More than twice as many U.S. troops were killed in Iraq under Obama's willing continuation of that "bad faith" war than died during Bush's entire presidency. Got anything to say about that? Or is this just a circle-jerk sponsored by Hypocrites'R'Us?

K.



(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 126
RE: Republican Position on the Ukraine - 3/6/2014 5:10:39 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Owners reply to me says it all.......

Really, eh? More than twice as many U.S. troops were killed in Iraq under Obama's willing continuation of that "bad faith" war than died during Bush's entire presidency. Got anything to say about that? Or is this just a circle-jerk sponsored by Hypocrites'R'Us?

K.





I have lots to say, much of which would get me a gold Cmail. Lets just give you a basic fact though, you are telling porkies. Four of the five years under Bush have a higher death rate than all of those under Obama added together.

http://icasualties.org/

I suggest you let someone else do your maths and stop suggesting I am a hypocrite.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 127
RE: Republican Position on the Ukraine - 3/6/2014 5:11:00 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
http://thedailybanter.com/2013/11/conservatives-say-obama-has-lost-more-us-troops-than-bush-thats-crazy/'


It`s going quickly from ridiculous to the sublime Polite.From the disgusting to the pathetic....from the willfully ignorant to the maleficent.


_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 128
RE: Republican Position on the Ukraine - 3/6/2014 5:13:07 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59


http://thedailybanter.com/2013/11/conservatives-say-obama-has-lost-more-us-troops-than-bush-thats-crazy/'


It`s going quickly from ridiculous to the sublime Polite.From the disgusting to the pathetic....from the willfully ignorant to the maleficent.



We posted at the same time. The ignorance of Kiratas notion is staggering.

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 129
RE: Republican Position on the Ukraine - 3/6/2014 5:23:19 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		Maker`s Mark is making a mark ...me thinks...

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 130
RE: Republican Position on the Ukraine - 3/6/2014 5:32:19 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

More than twice as many U.S. troops were killed in Iraq under Obama's willing continuation of that "bad faith" war...

Four of the five years under Bush have a higher death rate than all of those under Obama added together.

I suggest you let someone else do your maths and stop suggesting I am a hypocrite.

Oops, you're right. I didn't realize I was looking at military deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan combined. Not that I'm in favor of us being in Afghanistan either, or that I don't think Owner is a hypocrite, but you have my apologies on this one. As we're on the topic, however, how do you feel about the spiraling body count from Obama's continuing military adventures?

Have you ever seen this?

K.

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 131
RE: Republican Position on the Ukraine - 3/6/2014 5:33:22 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Maker`s Mark is making a mark ...me thinks...

Oh fucking please! I drink Gentleman Jack.

K.

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 132
RE: Republican Position on the Ukraine - 3/6/2014 6:52:57 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

More than twice as many U.S. troops were killed in Iraq under Obama's willing continuation of that "bad faith" war...

Four of the five years under Bush have a higher death rate than all of those under Obama added together.

I suggest you let someone else do your maths and stop suggesting I am a hypocrite.

Oops, you're right. I didn't realize I was looking at military deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan combined. Not that I'm in favor of us being in Afghanistan either, or that I don't think Owner is a hypocrite, but you have my apologies on this one. As we're on the topic, however, how do you feel about the spiraling body count from Obama's continuing military adventures?

Have you ever seen this?

K.




Like withdrawing our troops from Afghanistan and ending your party`s Iraqi adventure?





_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 133
RE: Republican Position on the Ukraine - 3/6/2014 7:02:46 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Like withdrawing our troops from Afghanistan and ending your party`s Iraqi adventure?

You don't want to go there.



See also here

K.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Kirata -- 3/6/2014 7:03:26 PM >

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 134
RE: Republican Position on the Ukraine - 3/6/2014 11:31:56 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

At this point and with the Treaty between Russia and Crimea (and with Ukraine as well) their presence in stabilizing the port (and even some of it under pretense if that is the case) in the Crimea, isnt an invasion by any stretch of the imagination.  I would be ok calling it an incursion, but that is strong too.

It is not a clear easy cut and dried thing here, Ukraine and Russia got to  negotiate a settlement, Ukraine and Crimea, and Russia and Crimea.........and they all gotta be ok with whatever it is they can negotiate. 

On Thursday morning, President Barack Obama signed an executive order which designated the ongoing crisis in Ukraine prompted by a Russian military invasion of the Crimean Peninsula "an unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security and foreign policy of the United States." ~Source

Jeeeez.

K.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 135
RE: Republican Position on the Ukraine - 3/7/2014 4:59:46 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

More than twice as many U.S. troops were killed in Iraq under Obama's willing continuation of that "bad faith" war...

Four of the five years under Bush have a higher death rate than all of those under Obama added together.

I suggest you let someone else do your maths and stop suggesting I am a hypocrite.

Oops, you're right. I didn't realize I was looking at military deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan combined. Not that I'm in favor of us being in Afghanistan either, or that I don't think Owner is a hypocrite, but you have my apologies on this one. As we're on the topic, however, how do you feel about the spiraling body count from Obama's continuing military adventures?

Have you ever seen this?

K.



Accepted...... Thank you.

I have never been critical of Bush going after AQ, just the fact he didnt finish the job when he had then trapped at Tora Bora. It didnt help he let the Pakistani ISI fly AQs top men out of Afghanistan either. I fail to see how you can hold Obama to account for Bushes adventures though. Obama would have been slated for not trying to finish the job.


That said, your link was stunning and backs up what I said about Bush Snr and his New World Order. Cheney, Rumsfeld and others have, in my opinion, had an agenda over several decades. The question is, will Obama try and do as we are in Europe, and use diplomacy, or will he go down the military route. After Blair and Iraq, any UK PM will find it hard to get the backing of both Government and the population.

General Clarks speech was stunning, not that it revealed anything new, but that someone so high up in the military had the balls to speak out on the issue. Just seven short years later, the pigeons are coming home to roost with a rise in Islamic terrorism in countries where there was none. Its the result of replacing Governments you dont like with corrupt leaders, a lesson US top policay makers need to learn.

I am glad we agree on something so important.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 136
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