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Owner vs. Spouse - 7/7/2006 5:44:58 AM

shareinnc

Posts: 116
Joined: 5/1/2006
Status: offline

I'm looking for some input on definitions/roles here. What do you see as the difference between an owner and a spouse (specifically a male heterosexual owner and a female heterosexual slave relationship dynamic).

I'm hoping for a little more than "spouse denotes legal status" as I understand that concept. I know there's a difference I am simply having a very hard time putting it into words and hope some insight from others might help.

Thanks!

_____________________________

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Post #: 1

RE: Owner vs. Spouse - 7/7/2006 5:57:27 AM

Chrisie

Posts: 6
Joined: 7/7/2006
Status: offline

If a man is maried to her he ownes, Her Completly. He can treat her any way he wants. Good or BAD

(in reply to shareinnc)

Post #: 2

RE: Owner vs. Spouse - 7/7/2006 5:57:45 AM

missturbation

Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline

In my opinion other than legal status there is no difference. A wedding ring, a collar, its all the same. I personally would not get married again and see a collar as being of far more value. Just my personal opinion.

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to shareinnc)

Post #: 3

RE: Owner vs. Spouse - 7/7/2006 6:02:48 AM

subedana

Posts: 100
Joined: 7/12/2004
Status: offline

I think it's a matter of legaliaties only. Jim and I are not married nor do we live together but he still owns me.

(in reply to missturbation)

Post #: 4

RE: Owner vs. Spouse - 7/7/2006 6:06:27 AM

tangria

Posts: 27
Joined: 5/20/2006
Status: offline

i liked this question as it really made me think, having been in both vanilla and bdsm relationships. i have found in a "conventional" marriage or ltr, the roles didnt seem well-defined........there seemed to be so much ambiguity and shifts of power that no one knew exactly where they stood., and what was "expected" also seemed to shift as things were often veiled, and ulterior motives and power struggles clouded the relationship. being submissive in nature i would try to give control to a partner only to have it tossed aside so-to-speak, and always felt vaguely uneasy and "adrift". i have found in a bdsm relarionship the roles much more clearly defined, the higher level of honesty and trust are essential, and talking about wants needs, desires, limits is imperative. to sum it up, i think i feel "convential" marriage/spouses are more an issue of practical convenience, i.e. financial, child-rearing, material accumulation, whereas the bdsm relationship (for me) has been more on the side of soul-sharing, sensuality, finding that other half to make us whole together. that is not to say one cannot mesh the two, and i know couples who have done so successfully. for me now it would be unthinkable to consider a marriage unless it was to my owner/master, and i could live very happily never being married again so long as i have that d/s dynamic in my life with my partner.

(in reply to shareinnc)

Post #: 5

RE: Owner vs. Spouse - 7/7/2006 6:30:47 AM

fullofgrace

Posts: 395
Joined: 3/24/2006
From: fl, usa
Status: offline

i am a female bisexual submissive, but my owner (who i plan to marry) is male and heterosexual.

to me, there is no difference, other than the fact that he is my owner, and is so before he will be my spouse, since we probably won't get married until i start grad school in a few years. we have discussed it, however. this situation is this way, though, because i won't enter into a bdsm relationship where i am owned but am not the primary partner or romantic relationship/marriage partner of my owner. there are submissives and slaves who will - and in that case, there's a distinct difference.

in terms of differences between the general terms...someone can be your spouse without being your owner, and someone can be your owner without being your spouse, because bdsm does not always correlate to vanilla ideas of marriage :)

_____________________________

i have the kind of beauty that moves...

(in reply to tangria)

Post #: 6

RE: Owner vs. Spouse - 7/7/2006 6:36:16 AM

gardenbluebird

Posts: 131
Joined: 5/9/2006
Status: offline

Don't gloss over the importance of marriage as both a legal and a social entity. As a legal entity it give one the right to inherit property without taxation, it gives one the right to make medical decisions when your partner cannot speak for him or herself. Without it family can even bar one from visiting a very ill or injured partner. Also, it makes life a whole lot easier when unmentionables are involved. On the flip side an irresponsible spouse has the ability to ruin your credit and cause severe damage to other family relationships. This type of damage can happen in other relationship, but it gets a whole lot uglier and more difficult to control when it's your spouse. In day to day life in a healthy relationship it may not make a big difference, but when the sh** hits the fan it makes a world of difference.

As far as a social entity it makes a partnership a union that is recognized by (nearly) all members of society. Depending on ones work and social environment this can make a big difference as to how people are treated. As much as people like to think that it's US against The World, it is quite frankly an easier situation when The World supports the partnership.

In 99% of cases a marriage represents a way of life, not just a relationship. A Master/slave relationship may not be easy to walk away from emotionally, but the partners may or may not live together, and depending on the circumstances ending it could be relatively straight forward. Ending a marriage is never that simple.

I'm sure that many will disagree with me, and that's fine. This is just what my experiences have led me to believe.

(in reply to tangria)

Post #: 7

RE: Owner vs. Spouse - 7/7/2006 6:37:55 AM

gardenia100

Posts: 38
Joined: 3/25/2006
Status: offline

Sorry Chrisie I have to disagree with you on that one. No one has a right to treat anyone badly. Those that think they have that right are sadly mistaken and are not considered dominates but createns and get what they dish out in the end.
Now don't mistake me. There are those submissive/slaves that wish to be abused and that is between them and their owners, but that is a right given to them by the sub/slave. It is not something they get by placing a wedding ring on a finger.

Just my opinion.

Gardenia

(in reply to Chrisie)

Post #: 8

RE: Owner vs. Spouse - 7/7/2006 6:49:30 AM

shareinnc

Posts: 116
Joined: 5/1/2006
Status: offline

Thank you to everyone who has responded thus far. I'm still having a little difficulty with wording my thoughts (moving them from what I feel to what can be expressed to someone else, and every bit of input is helping.

I'm beginning to lean toward owner encompassing all behavior and interaction based on negotiation of the relationship at the beginning while spouse denotes societally expected behaviors. I'm still not there and I don't believe there is one right answer to this question.

_____________________________

Check out DV8 Publishing!
http://dv8publishing.com

(in reply to shareinnc)

Post #: 9

RE: Owner vs. Spouse - 7/7/2006 6:55:16 AM

zumala

Posts: 1121
Joined: 6/16/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: shareinnc

I'm looking for some input on definitions/roles here. What do you see as the difference between an owner and a spouse (specifically a male heterosexual owner and a female heterosexual slave relationship dynamic).

I'm hoping for a little more than "spouse denotes legal status" as I understand that concept. I know there's a difference I am simply having a very hard time putting it into words and hope some insight from others might help.

Thanks!

An interesting question. I've never had a BDSM-type of owner, so I may not be accurate with a definition for that. I am married, however, so I'll offer my thoughts on that topic.

To me (and I know others will not agree) marriage is a lifetime commitment. Before I married, I got to know my husband for 4 years strictly as a person. We did not have sex before the wedding. We were both virgins. So what we got to know before the wedding was each other as people with hopes and dreams and opinions. Turns out that we meshed very well and we both agreed that the 'D' word (divorce) would never be spoken of in our relationship. It isn't an option. Thankfully, our relationship is such that we wouldn't need that out anyway.

Now, for further clarification... my husband is a submissive himself. We didn't really find out about BDSM or our own leanings until after we married. This means it will be difficult, if not impossible, to find a Dom couple that meshes with us in a way that doesn't interfere with our marriage (we're monogamous). Thankfully, we're complete enough with each other that this is okay. I take a biblical view of marriage and regard myself as 'equal yet submissive' since I am the wife. I can serve my husband out of love. I can acquiese to his decisions after giving my opinion without difficulty. So while we don't have a Dom/sub BDSM dynamic going on, the relationship isn't entirely stagnant in regard to power. Someone has to be the leader, and thankfully he falls into that mode much more often than I do.

I don't know if that helped or not, but I hope it did.

zuma

(in reply to shareinnc)

Post #: 10

RE: Owner vs. Spouse - 7/7/2006 7:38:45 AM

littleone35

Posts: 2828
Joined: 2/17/2005
Status: offline

There are 2 kinds of contracts. The difference is that a bdsm contract is not legally enforcable a marrige conrtact is. To me and my Master the bdsm contract is totally enforcable but in a court it is a worthless piece of paper. That is just my take on the op's question.

Matt's littleone

(in reply to zumala)

Post #: 11

RE: Owner vs. Spouse - 7/7/2006 8:00:52 AM

MasterFireMaam

Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chrisie

If a man is maried to her he ownes, Her Completly. He can treat her any way he wants. Good or BAD

Bullshit.

Master Fire

_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to Chrisie)

Post #: 12

RE: Owner vs. Spouse - 7/7/2006 8:05:19 AM

MasterFireMaam

Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline

There's lots of legal ramifications, as others have stated, as well as societal stuff (we expect het couples to get married). It also offers a lot of control over finances and such...but that can often work both ways, unless there's a serious pre-nup. A lot of people see marriage as the sacred union of two people who are in love. For those that feel it's ok or even necessary to have love in a Ds or Ms relationship, it can be seen as a fulfillment of the bond.

Master Fire

_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to shareinnc)

Post #: 13

RE: Owner vs. Spouse - 7/7/2006 8:08:06 AM

Taylore

Posts: 121
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: shareinnc

I'm looking for some input on definitions/roles here. What do you see as the difference between an owner and a spouse (specifically a male heterosexual owner and a female heterosexual slave relationship dynamic).

I'm hoping for a little more than "spouse denotes legal status" as I understand that concept. I know there's a difference I am simply having a very hard time putting it into words and hope some insight from others might help.

Thanks!

Since Master and I are not married, it's quite simple for us. He is my Master, not my husband.

_____________________________

Taylore

(in reply to shareinnc)

Post #: 14

RE: Owner vs. Spouse - 7/7/2006 8:22:03 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

I do not think that the traits of a spouse and of a Ds dynamic differ in everyway.

I think of marriage as a protective mechanism for women and children, which it has evolved greatly in the last 100 years in the USA, but still I view it this way. No, we do not have to be married to the person that gives us kids, but I think marriage is still the ideal institution to rear children in.

There are medical benefits and retirement benefits attached to marriage. There are social benefits to marriage that may not be present in a Ds relationship.

I would not be owned by someone that was unwilling to marry me. I want to be wife and an owned submissive. It is possible, and there are those here that are owned and married. I want to wear the name of my owner. I will not be collared until I know that the person that puts the collar there has enough esteem for me to wed me. I want the Dom that collars me to want to grow old with me.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to shareinnc)

Post #: 15

RE: Owner vs. Spouse - 7/7/2006 9:19:10 AM

IrishMist

Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: shareinnc

I'm looking for some input on definitions/roles here. What do you see as the difference between an owner and a spouse (specifically a male heterosexual owner and a female heterosexual slave relationship dynamic).

I'm hoping for a little more than "spouse denotes legal status" as I understand that concept. I know there's a difference I am simply having a very hard time putting it into words and hope some insight from others might help.

Thanks!

When I was married, it was very simple. I was a mother first, a slave second, and a wife third.

_____________________________

If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.

(in reply to shareinnc)

Post #: 16

RE: Owner vs. Spouse - 7/7/2006 10:37:04 AM

Ladyofthemanor

Posts: 51
Joined: 11/8/2004
Status: offline

My Master and i aren't married, W/we plan on getting married later on in life but right now we live strictly as Master/slave with defined roles.

i come from a very strange background, my mother never was remarried after having me in 1969, i was 3 months old when the divorce was final. My mother never got remarried so for me i never saw how marriage works or how Male/female relationships work, so my Master was lucky enough to have a clean slate to work from when it comes to defining our roles in our relationship, since i didn't have any of the vanilla experiences/bad parental relationships. The only type of Male/female marriage relationships where the ones i saw on TV growing up, Donna Reed, June Cleaver, where the man brought home the check the female was a stay at home mom, with dinner on the table when he walked in the door.

Before meeting my Master, i have been in the lifestyle since i was 26, i use work 40+ hour a week single mom with 2 kids, and no man, i use to make great money and have an lot of materialistic things, but i was not happy . Back in 2003, i put an ad out for an owner. My ad stated 24/7TPE slave looking, and that is how i found my Master. Now, 3 years and 5 kids later, 2 are his and pregnant with our 3rd, i am a stay at home mommy slave with a daily lists, and i have to call my Master when i leave the house, or spend money out of our account.
Master and i have a very loving and wonderful relationship one that comes from communication and trust. Do i miss the married part at times, i think i miss the ceremony part of it and the pressure from the vanilla world to be his “wife” but to me that is a title that is foreign to me, and a title that i don’t feel comfortable wearing. Master will tell you that i am his soul mate, life partner, best friend, gaming partner, and the mother of his children. W/we celebrate our moving in together as 24/7 as our wedding anniversary W/we are having legal documents being drawn up to help with U/us being not married. For those of you that aren’t married i suggest a will, and giving your partner power of attorney if the Master becomes ill. W/we are actually meeting with a paralegal friend of ours to have that paperwork taken care of this weekend.

_____________________________

slavelilly

(in reply to IrishMist)

Post #: 17

RE: Owner vs. Spouse - 7/7/2006 10:44:37 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: shareinnc

I'm beginning to lean toward owner encompassing all behavior and interaction based on negotiation of the relationship at the beginning while spouse denotes societally expected behaviors. I'm still not there and I don't believe there is one right answer to this question.

this slave's take:

"owner" has to rely solely on the "owned's" integrity as to the behavior, interaction and continuity expected within the relationship, the integrity of "owned's" next of kin...sans legal recourse, in the event of an emergency, illness or death and vice-versa. exactly why society frowns on those types of relationships...too much risk of fraud in a society where a socially recognized legal contract holds more water than a person's word.

"spouse" can rely on integrity, but also has the "security" that a marriage contract affords in our society. it publicly, legally and, if the participants so choose, spiritually makes a statement about the two persons involved--their relationship becomes a recognized entity, by society, the law and some folk's God.

(in reply to shareinnc)

Post #: 18

RE: Owner vs. Spouse - 7/7/2006 10:59:09 AM

Mavis

Posts: 828
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline

i am both married and owned, although by two diff "Top-sorts"...   i hope this isn't too confusing. i have both a Dom, who is also my hubby, and a Master who is recognised as such by my family.

i think of marriage as a co-joined thing.   Socially we're expected to have "equality" and a fluid division of labor and responsibility. While one must lead, that role can be passed back and forth depending on the circumstances, etc. W/we "own" each other.

Being Masters owned, it's clearly not assumed to be "equal" .. One has the acting power over the other, the posessed one has only the power to vote with feet and walk away. (laughing at the implication of being "a posessed one".. sounds demonic!)    One-way ownership is the hallmark here, i do not own Him. It's even weird to refer to ones Master as "my Master" because of what the wording implies, but how else can we refer to the association?

Why is one called my Dom and one my Master?    The hubby/ Dom has no inclination or interest in "Ownership" of me or anyone else, although He does certainly have the control aspects and "please me" elements down very well. There are other needs in the relationship besides those two elements that make up our marriage. Because i have negotiating power in the marriage and power exchange, it's not Master/slave, i have the choice to not submit in some instances and that not be a death-knell to the relationship.

The Master type has a distinct need to "own" me.. which means He protects my needs by also working well with hubby/Dom, allowing for and encouraging my familial responsibilities and such. That ownership brings a different level of responsibility for my emotional and spiritual needs. i need not have negotiating power because it is assumed Master will address my needs directly, or by ensuring i have the capability of getting them met in some way He deems appropriate.

Normally, in a one-on-one Owner/ owned relationship, there would be financial and medical responsibility as well, but yeah, W/we're different. It works for U/us though.

_____________________________

~ Mavis

none of this applies to me, i'm only playing with lables this week.

(in reply to IrishMist)

Post #: 19

RE: Owner vs. Spouse - 7/7/2006 11:04:16 AM

Mavis

Posts: 828
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

"owner" has to rely solely on the "owned's" integrity as to the behavior, interaction and continuity expected within the relationship, the integrity of "owned's" next of kin...sans legal recourse, in the event of an emergency, illness or death and vice-versa. exactly why society frowns on those types of relationships...too much risk of fraud in a society where a socially recognized legal contract holds more water than a person's word.

"spouse" can rely on integrity, but also has the "security" that a marriage contract affords in our society. it publicly, legally and, if the participants so choose, spiritually makes a statement about the two persons involved--their relationship becomes a recognized entity, by society, the law and some folk's God.

Posted while i was writing mine, you said that very well beth.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 20

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