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RE: What Are Russia's Intentions Toward Ukraine? - 3/2/2014 2:40:25 PM

Arturas

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

Case in point, Nazi Germany and how it was treated and coddled before launching the attack on Austria.

Attack on Austria? I think you did dream again, while you slept through history lessons not your first disconnect from reality

Hey, I understand. You follow me around trying to get some attention on the playground.

But nice try. My history is solid. http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/triumph/tr-austria.htm

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RE: What Are Russia's Intentions Toward Ukraine? - 3/3/2014 2:50:31 AM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

quote:

Well your shrub certainly handled putin (`s tacticals) with great skill.....lol

Sending in McGrampa to save Georgia from the ruskies.......that worked good.....

I`m hearing the lunatic fringe imagine how st. ronnie would have handled this......

By selling surface to air missiles to Iran?

And we won`t hear President Obama saying something pathetically subservient like "I looked the man in the eye.
I found him to be very straightforward and trustworthy. We had a very good dialogue. I was able to get a sense of his soul; a man deeply committed to his country and the best interests of his country.”

Truth be known, President Bush was pushing hard for Georgia's full admission to NATO so it could be legitimately protected by the armed might all these nations, a effort that took too long and was pre-empted by Russian action before that process already in motion could be completed. That is how you handle Georgia, the only way one can, by being allies. This is what McWindyCity had a lot of time to do but he was too busy with McWindyCityCare and halting the pipeline and sucking up to the Russians, so too bad for the Ukraine that they have Mr. WindyCity, they don't even pretend to count on him. Fortunately for us, Windbag has learned not to draw red lines.

Actually W encouraged the Georgian attacks that led to the Russian invasion. Then he, being the pitiful useless coward that he is, he cut and ran abandoning them to Putin.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8281990.stm

So, I waste my time following this link and it says nothing of the kind. My post is accurate.

Bullshit. Apparently you did not read.
First sentence of the article

quote:

The war in Georgia last year was started by a Georgian attack that was not justified by international law

< Message edited by DomKen -- 3/3/2014 2:52:22 AM >

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RE: What Are Russia's Intentions Toward Ukraine? - 3/3/2014 7:08:59 AM

tweakabelle

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I posted this on the other thread about the Ukraine, but it seems more suited to this thread:

Absent from most commentary on the current situation in the Ukraine has been a historical perspective. Conservative former Australian PM Malcolm Fraser analyses the Ukranian crisis through the perspective of history and comes up with some surprising findings:

" [After the end of the cold war, T]here were many ways in which the former members of the Soviet Union in eastern Europe could have been given security for the future. Nato chose to provide that security by moving eastward to the borders of Russia. The then president, Gorbachev, in negotiating with secretary of state, James Baker, had insisted that Nato should not move one foot east – this was an area of traditional Russian influence. President Clinton pushed to expand the Nato alliance to the very borders of Russia. There was talk of Ukraine and Georgia being included.
The move east, despite the negotiations held with Gorbachev, was provocative, unwise and a very clear signal to Russia: we are not willing to make you a co-operative partner in the management of European or world affairs; we will exercise the power available to us and you will have to put up with it. "

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/mar/03/ukraine-theres-no-way-out-unless-the-west-understands-its-past-mistakes

Fraser comments caustically that "the west has once again chosen some unsavoury partners and that does not augur well for the future. Milne then described the elements then fighting the government as pro-fascist, pro-nazi, anti-Jew."

In the rush to minimise Russian influence and power has the West been the provocateur? Is the West once again supporting very unsavoury elements in an unprincipled attempt to realise its goals? We all know how that turns out in the end don't we?

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RE: What Are Russia's Intentions Toward Ukraine? - 3/3/2014 7:19:27 AM

Arturas

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

quote:

Well your shrub certainly handled putin (`s tacticals) with great skill.....lol

Sending in McGrampa to save Georgia from the ruskies.......that worked good.....

I`m hearing the lunatic fringe imagine how st. ronnie would have handled this......

By selling surface to air missiles to Iran?

And we won`t hear President Obama saying something pathetically subservient like "I looked the man in the eye.
I found him to be very straightforward and trustworthy. We had a very good dialogue. I was able to get a sense of his soul; a man deeply committed to his country and the best interests of his country.”

Truth be known, President Bush was pushing hard for Georgia's full admission to NATO so it could be legitimately protected by the armed might all these nations, a effort that took too long and was pre-empted by Russian action before that process already in motion could be completed. That is how you handle Georgia, the only way one can, by being allies. This is what McWindyCity had a lot of time to do but he was too busy with McWindyCityCare and halting the pipeline and sucking up to the Russians, so too bad for the Ukraine that they have Mr. WindyCity, they don't even pretend to count on him. Fortunately for us, Windbag has learned not to draw red lines.

Actually W encouraged the Georgian attacks that led to the Russian invasion. Then he, being the pitiful useless coward that he is, he cut and ran abandoning them to Putin.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8281990.stm

So, I waste my time following this link and it says nothing of the kind. My post is accurate.

Bullshit. Apparently you did not read.
First sentence of the article

quote:

The war in Georgia last year was started by a Georgian attack that was not justified by international law

I see. You believe the tiny country did indeed start the war with Giant Russia. I'm done with you.

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RE: What Are Russia's Intentions Toward Ukraine? - 3/3/2014 7:20:54 AM

Arturas

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ORIGINAL: cloudboy

You sound like a chickenhawk.

Another oratory gem.

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RE: What Are Russia's Intentions Toward Ukraine? - 3/3/2014 7:24:13 AM

cloudboy

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If you are so he'll bent on pushing the Russians out and supporting the Ukraine, why not go over and help man the barricades?

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RE: What Are Russia's Intentions Toward Ukraine? - 3/3/2014 7:29:01 AM

Arturas

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What Are Russia's Intentions Toward Ukraine?

Land access to the Black Sea. Control over the oil pipelines to Europe. Putin has signaled this in the past.

This was also pre-planned. The giveaway to anyone paying the least bit of attention are... the Russian uniforms. They are new, unmarked completely and they fit every man. This means they were obtained in great numbers in just the right sizes just in time for the invasion. Anyone who understands military logistics well knows that took months to accomplish. This leaves us with a clear understanding that this was planned for months and is part of a greater expansionist strategy postponed only until the Olympics were ended. "Russians don't take a dump without a five year plan".

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RE: What Are Russia's Intentions Toward Ukraine? - 3/3/2014 7:43:24 AM

tweakabelle

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Al Jazeera TV is reporting that the Russians have given Ukranian forces in the Crimea an ultimatum to surrender by 5 am tomorrow or face military attack. The Russians have surrounded a number of Ukranian military bases in the Crimea. These reports also quote the Ukranians as stating they will neither surrender nor fire the first shots.

If these reports are true, then it looks as though the situation is going to take a serious turn for the worse

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RE: What Are Russia's Intentions Toward Ukraine? - 3/3/2014 8:20:29 AM

Phydeaux

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I hope they have the guts to fight for their country. Else they may well lose it entirely. Surrendering will only allow the Russians to push further.. and further.. and further.

The russians will win a fire fight in Crimea without a US task force. But it would show the Russians what they can expect in the rest of the country.

The Ukraine is a weak country, being bullied by a strong one. President Chickenshit needs to wake up before tanks roll on Kiev.

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RE: What Are Russia's Intentions Toward Ukraine? - 3/3/2014 8:31:09 AM

mnottertail

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That is now the stupidest fucking shit on the internet. Russia will use nukes to keep that area. The issues are that Ukraine is non-aligned, refused NATO, and really so far, there has been no rioting or fighting, in fact it is fairly stable there, their vital interest lies in the Crimea.

This issue far more affects Germany, Britian, France and other European allies more than it does us.

Eastern and southern Crimea is for all intents and purposes Russian anyhow.

And really, after the vast cowardice and appeasment displayed by the nutsackers in regards Syria, and their ineptitude and imbecility displayed in Iraq and Iran, I don't think they can further a case that their advice should be thought of more than cretinous drooling regarding world, military or diplomatic affairs.

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RE: What Are Russia's Intentions Toward Ukraine? - 3/3/2014 8:42:17 AM

Phydeaux

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Hey. I supported the President in Syria.

*He* was the one who went chicken shit. He had the ability to make strikes without congressional authorization - and chose not too.

Regarding Crimea and the Ukraine.

Once again the west was flat-footed. Crimea was a major asset for Ukraine - and more should have been done to bolster the Ukraine as a bulwark against Russia.

Yes. Crimea and much of eastern Ukraine is siginificantly Russian already, due to the forced relocations under Stalin. That isn't a valid reason for annexation of half of Ukraine.

The bottom line of this is that if President ChickenShit can cut the losses to only crimea - I'll be amazed.
Putin has showed the world that the guarantees of the west are not to be trusted. That the west is weak.

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RE: What Are Russia's Intentions Toward Ukraine? - 3/3/2014 8:44:19 AM

mnottertail

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Nope, it wasn't *HE* it was the nutsackers in full cowardice plumage.

Additionally, Stalins reign did not begin in the 1700s or the 1800s. So, more horseshit.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 3/3/2014 8:47:41 AM >

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RE: What Are Russia's Intentions Toward Ukraine? - 3/3/2014 8:48:42 AM

Phydeaux

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Again - dimocrats have struck all over the world without congressional authorization, why demain it now?

You know, like drone strikes in Pakistan? Cruise missiles in Sudan?

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RE: What Are Russia's Intentions Toward Ukraine? - 3/3/2014 8:53:44 AM

mnottertail

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And nutsackers have struck at such fearsome tyrannies as Granada. You can see why the guys that fight wouldn't want to take any advice from nutsackers given their history of ineptitude and cowardice.

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RE: What Are Russia's Intentions Toward Ukraine? - 3/3/2014 9:04:28 AM

Phydeaux

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Stalin deported more than 300,000 crimeans - and more ukrainian greeks and poles.

Among the tartars the fatality rate of his forced relocation was 46%.

http://www.geocurrents.info/place/russia-ukraine-and-caucasus/stalins-ethnic-deportations-and-the-gerrymandered-ethnic-map

Stalin deliberately killed more than 10 million Ukrainians in the the famines of 1932-33.

http://www.ncas.rutgers.edu/center-study-genocide-conflict-resolution-and-human-rights/ukrainian-famine

In the 1920's stalin moved more than 2 million ukrainians:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_transfer_in_the_Soviet_Union

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RE: What Are Russia's Intentions Toward Ukraine? - 3/3/2014 9:17:55 AM

mnottertail

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Thats pretty cute, but that is not Crimea. 191000+ Crimean Tartars, and others not Crimean at other times. Crimeans back in Crimea who want to be, they repatriated after the fall of the Soviet Union.

So, horseshit. And Ukraine and Crimea are quite separate. Crimea an autonomous region and further split into a separate autonomous region in Sevastapol (where the shit is going on) because its like Guantanemo to us, for the Russians.

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RE: What Are Russia's Intentions Toward Ukraine? - 3/3/2014 11:28:54 AM

Phydeaux

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Quoting the American thinker, on why Crimea matters:

If President Obama does this, however, and Ukraine ends up losing chunks of territory to Russia, it is pretty much the end of a rational case for non-proliferation in many countries around the world. If Ukraine still had its nukes, it would probably still have Crimea. It gave up its nukes, got worthless paper guarantees, and also got an invasion from a more powerful and nuclear neighbor.

The choice here could not be more stark. Keep your nukes and keep your land. Give up your nukes and get raped. This will be the second time that Obama administration policy has taught the rest of the world that nuclear weapons are important things to have. The Great Loon of Libya gave up his nuclear program and the west, as other leaders see it, came in and wasted himThe Great Loon of Libya gave up his nuclear program and the west, as other leaders see it, came in and wasted him.

Ie.., what reason will Iran have to give up its nukes considering Ukraine, libya... etc.
Or for that matter - what reason will Russia have in assisting the US on Iranian nukes on the basis of our opposition in Ukraine...

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RE: What Are Russia's Intentions Toward Ukraine? - 3/3/2014 11:32:59 AM

Phydeaux

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Thats pretty cute, but that is not Crimea. 191000+ Crimean Tartars, and others not Crimean at other times. Crimeans back in Crimea who want to be, they repatriated after the fall of the Soviet Union.

So, horseshit. And Ukraine and Crimea are quite separate. Crimea an autonomous region and further split into a separate autonomous region in Sevastapol (where the shit is going on) because its like Guantanemo to us, for the Russians.

Sadly, figures for the death by famine were not available for crimea proper. So you'll have to extrapolate. But generally speaking 25% of the entire population was killed in the famine - which presumably means 25% of the Crimean population as well.

Go ahead. Defend Putin's right to invade a separate, sovereign country. You repulse me.

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RE: What Are Russia's Intentions Toward Ukraine? - 3/3/2014 11:33:31 AM

mnottertail

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They will because only Russia and the US have the capability of unleashing those nukes over the globe.

So, the American thinker is a fucking stooge and a cretin. Name one place that was part of the USSR we ever defended from Russia, nope, Reagan and Bush and Eisenhower have already taught the lesson that the non-aligned nations are fucked.

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RE: What Are Russia's Intentions Toward Ukraine? - 3/3/2014 11:46:55 AM

mnottertail

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Thats pretty cute, but that is not Crimea. 191000+ Crimean Tartars, and others not Crimean at other times. Crimeans back in Crimea who want to be, they repatriated after the fall of the Soviet Union.

So, horseshit. And Ukraine and Crimea are quite separate. Crimea an autonomous region and further split into a separate autonomous region in Sevastapol (where the shit is going on) because its like Guantanemo to us, for the Russians.

Sadly, figures for the death by famine were not available for crimea proper. So you'll have to extrapolate. But generally speaking 25% of the entire population was killed in the famine - which presumably means 25% of the Crimean population as well.

Go ahead. Defend Putin's right to invade a separate, sovereign country. You repulse me.

When Putin invades a separate sovereign country we will only see more lies and ignorance and cowardice and shitting of pants from the nutsackers.

Now, nobody is claiming holodor did not happen, whether it was intentional or not is very much debatable.

You are the only one making the repulsive and totally ignorant statements. Why just think of it if you were armchair generalling this like you did Benghazi what you can accomplish. Absolutely nothing, same as always, but you can lie and pretend you are having an intelligent conversation with the other cretins who buy into this dumbass stuff you are peddling here.

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