quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

FR

A point I haven't seen mentioned is that the anti self defense people on here
have to assume the cops don't know what they are doing, otherwise they wouldn't
have let Hendrix go.
And at the same time say Hendrix should have depended on those same grossly incompetent
cops for his safety.

The cops let the murderer go because he was just barely inside the law. It doesn't make murdering that man right. The fact remains if he had simply turned on a porch light or a flashlight the man would still be alive.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

FR

A point I haven't seen mentioned is that the anti self defense people on here
have to assume the cops don't know what they are doing, otherwise they wouldn't
have let Hendrix go.
And at the same time say Hendrix should have depended on those same grossly incompetent
cops for his safety.

The cops let the murderer go because he was just barely inside the law. It doesn't make murdering that man right. The fact remains if he had simply turned on a porch light or a flashlight the man would still be alive.

The fact remains that even if he did know Westbrook had Alzheimers it wouldn't mean he was harmless.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Thank heavens they also don't act like your hero... or every time someone knocks on a door at night they will get a stomach full of lead if they don't stop after three challenges.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

FR

A point I haven't seen mentioned is that the anti self defense people on here
have to assume the cops don't know what they are doing, otherwise they wouldn't
have let Hendrix go.
And at the same time say Hendrix should have depended on those same grossly incompetent
cops for his safety.

The cops let the murderer go because he was just barely inside the law. It doesn't make murdering that man right. The fact remains if he had simply turned on a porch light or a flashlight the man would still be alive.

The fact remains that you either warn them or give them first strike

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Thank heavens they also don't act like your hero... or every time someone knocks on a door at night they will get a stomach full of lead if they don't stop after three challenges.

What I'd be curious to see is what happens legally when a stranger knocks on someones door, gets challenged and responds by killing the home owner.

Follow me here, with the expansion of castle doctrine (unless one has up no trespassing signs and possibly even then) our welcome mats are a strangers castle. Now we order the stranger to retreat or we'll shoot but with stand y̶o̶u̶r̶ (someone else's) ground the stranger has no duty to defuse the situation by retreating. So because the stranger isn't retreating he has a rational fear that his life is in danger (we just told him so after all) BANG! the stranger is justified in using deadly force against the homeowner.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

FR

A point I haven't seen mentioned is that the anti self defense people on here
have to assume the cops don't know what they are doing, otherwise they wouldn't
have let Hendrix go.
And at the same time say Hendrix should have depended on those same grossly incompetent
cops for his safety.

The cops let the murderer go because he was just barely inside the law. It doesn't make murdering that man right. The fact remains if he had simply turned on a porch light or a flashlight the man would still be alive.

The fact remains that you either warn them or give them first strike

I want you to imagine yourself in a situation, you've been in a car accident on a rural road. Your phone is smashed and your jaw is broken.  You need assistance and head to the nearest home. Do you hope the person turns on the porch light and renders you aid or draws their pistol and starts issuing warnings?

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Didn't it sort of worked that way for Zimmerman? Kinda backwards

Butch

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Since he refused to say anything how do you know he was looking for help.
It is just as valid to say he was in the midst of a delusion that this was his home and he was going
to dispose of what he thought was the intruder, Hendrix.
There is no way to know.
You are making up a scene that fits your preconceived notions with no facts to back it up.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Since he refused to say anything how do you know he was looking for help.
It is just as valid to say he was in the midst of a delusion that this was his home and he was going
to dispose of what he thought was the intruder, Hendrix.
There is no way to know.
You are making up a scene that fits your preconceived notions with no facts to back it up.

WE HAVE A WINNER!!!

This is precisely my point!

Human beings are story tellers, we make up stories to make sense of facts. As you point out "my" (it's actually the scene the dead man's wife made up) is "just as valid" as that of Hendrix AKA "no facts to back it up" either way.

Ergo Mr. Hendrix killed a man not because of facts but because of a story he told himself. Mr. Hendrix made up a scene that fit his "preconceived notions" AKA FEAR GOGGLES!

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Didn't it sort of worked that way for Zimmerman? Kinda backwards

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
No Zimmerman had every right to be where he was.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
You forget the part where Martin was trying to pound him into the ground.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Since he refused to say anything how do you know he was looking for help.
It is just as valid to say he was in the midst of a delusion that this was his home and he was going
to dispose of what he thought was the intruder, Hendrix.
There is no way to know.
You are making up a scene that fits your preconceived notions with no facts to back it up.

WE HAVE A WINNER!!!

This is precisely my point!

Human beings are story tellers, we make up stories to make sense of facts. As you point out "my" (it's actually the scene the dead man's wife made up) is "just as valid" as that of Hendrix AKA "no facts to back it up" either way.

Ergo Mr. Hendrix killed a man not because of facts but because of a story he told himself. Mr. Hendrix made up a scene that fit his "preconceived notions" AKA FEAR GOGGLES!

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Didn't it sort of worked that way for Zimmerman? Kinda backwards

Yeah I know huh.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
No Zimmerman had every right to be where he was.

Yep, it's equivalent in my scenario both Zimmerman and my stranger weren't on their own property. And both Zimmerman and my stranger had every right to be where they were. Please remember it's generally not illegal for strangers to be on ones welcome mat. This is why I can't have Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses arrested for ringing my doorbell.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
You forget the part where Martin was trying to pound him into the ground.

You forget the part where the homeowner was threatening with a gun. See my scenario even trumps yours in deadly force.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

FR

A point I haven't seen mentioned is that the anti self defense people on here
have to assume the cops don't know what they are doing, otherwise they wouldn't
have let Hendrix go.
And at the same time say Hendrix should have depended on those same grossly incompetent
cops for his safety.

The cops let the murderer go because he was just barely inside the law. It doesn't make murdering that man right. The fact remains if he had simply turned on a porch light or a flashlight the man would still be alive.

The fact remains that you either warn them or give them first strike

I want you to imagine yourself in a situation, you've been in a car accident on a rural road. Your phone is smashed and your jaw is broken.  You need assistance and head to the nearest home. Do you hope the person turns on the porch light and renders you aid or draws their pistol and starts issuing warnings?

Even with my jaw broken I would co-operate.
If he starts threatening to shoot me I would at a minimum do what he said so he wouldn't feel threatened putting my hands up for example
Not being stupid I would not advance on him.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

FR

A point I haven't seen mentioned is that the anti self defense people on here
have to assume the cops don't know what they are doing, otherwise they wouldn't
have let Hendrix go.
And at the same time say Hendrix should have depended on those same grossly incompetent
cops for his safety.

The cops let the murderer go because he was just barely inside the law. It doesn't make murdering that man right. The fact remains if he had simply turned on a porch light or a flashlight the man would still be alive.

The fact remains that if had been properly secured he would be alive.

properly secured? Since when precisely do people with dementia lose their freedom? When did simple trespassing become a capital crime in Georgia? Punishable when committed?

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
You make that claim for one reason and one reason only, you despise the very idea of self defense and this argument is as unsupported as the looking for help one.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
The police determined that the facts fit with his story.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Were you there?
Are you psychic?
Then you have nothing to back up this silly claim.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

FR

A point I haven't seen mentioned is that the anti self defense people on here
have to assume the cops don't know what they are doing, otherwise they wouldn't
have let Hendrix go.
And at the same time say Hendrix should have depended on those same grossly incompetent
cops for his safety.

The cops let the murderer go because he was just barely inside the law. It doesn't make murdering that man right. The fact remains if he had simply turned on a porch light or a flashlight the man would still be alive.

The fact remains that if had been properly secured he would be alive.

properly secured? Since when precisely do people with dementia lose their freedom? When did simple trespassing become a capital crime in Georgia? Punishable when committed?

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
FEAR GOGGLES!

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

FR

A point I haven't seen mentioned is that the anti self defense people on here
have to assume the cops don't know what they are doing, otherwise they wouldn't
have let Hendrix go.
And at the same time say Hendrix should have depended on those same grossly incompetent
cops for his safety.

The cops let the murderer go because he was just barely inside the law. It doesn't make murdering that man right. The fact remains if he had simply turned on a porch light or a flashlight the man would still be alive.

The fact remains that you either warn them or give them first strike

I want you to imagine yourself in a situation, you've been in a car accident on a rural road. Your phone is smashed and your jaw is broken.  You need assistance and head to the nearest home. Do you hope the person turns on the porch light and renders you aid or draws their pistol and starts issuing warnings?

Even with my jaw broken I would co-operate.
If he starts threatening to shoot me I would at a minimum do what he said so he wouldn't feel threatened putting my hands up for example
Not being stupid I would not advance on him.

Sorry you're still dead. In the dark there is absolutely no way to discern any of that. You're just a shape in the dark and raised hands could as easily be a prelude to an attack as an act of surrender.