RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimersquiquit

RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimersquiquit (Full Version)

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BamaD -> RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimersquiquit (3/8/2014 12:28:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata You're not thinking this through. I don't know where he might come in. I can't be everywhere at once, and I don't want a gunfight in the house. Situational awareness is too limited. My vision is blocked in every direction by walls, and interior walls will not stop a bullet. Few things are more dangerous than a gunfight in a house. Even the police don't risk it without an armed team. If I slip outside quietly, away from where I last saw him, I have the advantage. I know he's there, but he doesn't know I'm there. So, if you don't know where he might come in your house how do you know where he is outside to go confront him? While you are out back looking for him might he not come in the front? The fact is this guy knew where the victim was the whole time. All he had to do was turn on a light and act like a human being and this would have been nothing. My wife would be in a corner with a shotgun. And no I would get shot accidently when I came back in because I would clearly Identify myself all the way in.

BamaD -> RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimersquiquit (3/8/2014 12:30:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub all he did was knock and ring the bell... you show me any account that says otherwise. Show you an account? Do you want me to read it for you too, or can you manage that yourself? Both of the links in the OP say Westbrook was trying to open the door. Oh, so because the person rang the doorbell and jingled the handle a few times, that's total justification to shot them dead in a hail of bullets? Careful Kirata, but your 'lunatic fantasies' are showing again.... Talk about lunatic fantasies he wasn't shot through the door, he wasn't shot for trying to get in he was shot for ignoring three warnings not to advance on Hendrix.

BamaD -> RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimersquiquit (3/8/2014 12:32:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic FR Man, it's funny watching the "hide and pray" contingent putting themselves through the contortions on this thread. The guy talking about "failing classes," while he can't even conjugate a verb is a crack-up. And the less they know about combat the more they want to lecture us.

BamaD -> RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimersquiquit (3/8/2014 12:34:34 AM)
When you announce your presence by calling out to the intruder to identify themselves, you took another 'lost of an advantage'. Because element of surprise only works if the opponent is not aware of your presence. Pretty sure you are not recommending shooting someone without warning.

BamaD -> RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimersquiquit (3/8/2014 12:38:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice quote: “A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity” - Sigmund Freud This is not a statement that appears in any translation of any of Freud's works. It is a paraphrase of a statement from the essay "Guns, Murders, and the Constitution" (February 1990) by Don B. Kates, Jr. where Kates summarizes his views of passages in Dreams in Folklore (1958) by Freud and David E. Oppenheim, while disputing statements by Emmanuel Tanay in "Neurotic Attachment to Guns" in a 1976 edition of The Fifty Minute Hour: A Collection of True Psychoanalytic Tales (1955) by Robert Mitchell Lindner: Dr. Tanay is perhaps unaware of — in any event, he does not cite — other passages more relevant to his argument. In these other passages Freud associates retarded sexual and emotional development not with gun ownership, but with fear and loathing of weapons. The probative importance that ought to be attached to the views of Freud is, of course, a matter of opinion. The point here is only that those views provide no support for the penis theory of gun ownership. Due to misreading of this essay and its citations, this paraphrase of an opinion about Freud's ideas has been wrongly attributed to Freud himself, and specifically to his 10th Lecture "Symbolism in Dreams" in General Introduction to Psychoanalysis on some internet forum pages: alt.quotations, uk.politics.guns, talk.politics.guns, can.talk.guns , etc. http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Sigmund_Freud#Misattributed Hey man read the quote again it says weapons, not guns.

BamaD -> RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimersquiquit (3/8/2014 12:39:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kalikshama quote: "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" - Sigmund Freud Are you attempting to make a point that people who are pro gun control are afraid of weapons? Of course not all but look at this thread, it is clear that some are.

BecomingV -> RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimers (3/8/2014 1:02:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Mr. Westbrook is a victim of his own actions. This quickly turned into a focus on the gun itself. Canadians own more guns than Americans yet they sleep with their doors unlocked. They are not in a culture in which guns are used against other people. Mr. Westbrook would have been safer there, it seems. We are talking about someone with diminished capacity, not too unlike children, who may not be able to not run their Big Wheels into the street. Drivers must be on the defensive and protect them, despite the foray outside of the rules. I take this kind of desperate fear seriously. What is going on in America? BamaD - The viewpoint you hold on this in terms of personal responsibility concerns me. How myopic is it to focus on a sick man's wanderings and hold him responsible. No. Sometimes WE are responsible for the safety and welfare of others. We have to put on our big boy and big girl pants and adjust to the imperfections in life. This man's life depended on it.

PyrotheClown -> RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimers (3/8/2014 1:12:37 AM)
you know,with all the post apocalypse movies and shows becoming popular lately,we could use this tragedy as a premise for a new prepper wank movie night of the living elderly it'd be a sure fire hit

Kirata -> RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimersquiquit (3/8/2014 1:13:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether There was no need for the gun owner to go outside in the first place. That's the whole point here. He made a really dumb mistake and now an innocent life is lost. Westbrook is the one who made the mistake. And chances are, he would be just as dead if the police had arrived first. A devastated family is claiming that when they asked police for help in calming down their frantic schizophrenic son... When the 90-lb boy would not drop a screwdriver, officers tased him repeatedly and shot him to death. ~Link Police repeatedly shot and then tasered a mentally ill 67 year-old woman for not immediately complying with their orders to drop a letter opener. ~Link K.

Kirata -> RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimersquiquit (3/8/2014 1:34:13 AM)
~ FR ~ Having worked with Alzheimer's patients for a brief time earlier in my life, I know firsthand what's required. And number one on the list is security. They will wander off, fall down embankments, get hit by trucks, you name it, if the home or facility is not secure. That's just what they do, and it ain't new news. In the home, that means double-cylinder locks on the doors and keyed locks on the windows. And anyone taking care of an Alzheimer's patient at home who seeks advice will be told this, or damn well should be. The story says that Deanne Westbrook tried everything to keep her husband in the house. Apparently not everything. K.

PyrotheClown -> RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimersquiquit (3/8/2014 1:35:21 AM)
you know,I've seen bouncers take on physically fit drunk marines with severe ptsd wielding knives and broken bottles armed only with a large mount of bravado and tight black tee shirt with the word security printed across the back dozens of times,yet I always read bout sound bodied men taking on the frail and mentally ill with guns claiming self defense..I'm not saying that even the frailest of persons armed with something like a screw driver isn't dangerous to a certain extent,but I can't help to think,why don't they bum rush the crazy git and take their chances...since the odds are still in their favor.cops,able bodied citizens,who ever,what ever happened to a good ol haymaker and ask questions later.

joether -> RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimersquiquit (3/8/2014 3:37:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub all he did was knock and ring the bell... you show me any account that says otherwise. Show you an account? Do you want me to read it for you too, or can you manage that yourself? Both of the links in the OP say Westbrook was trying to open the door. Oh, so because the person rang the doorbell and jingled the handle a few times, that's total justification to shot them dead in a hail of bullets? Careful Kirata, but your 'lunatic fantasies' are showing again.... Talk about lunatic fantasies he wasn't shot through the door, he wasn't shot for trying to get in he was shot for ignoring three warnings not to advance on Hendrix. No, he was shot....OUTSIDE...THE...RESIDENCE. And how was the man shot to death? Oh, he was shot by a guy who left the protection of the dwelling to confront the intruder directly. Having no clue exactly what he was up against, he though it was intelligent to go right to the individual. All we have is his word that he gave 'X' number of warnings before shooting the guy. Funny how you can not seem to explain to me, rationally, tactically, or wisely, WHY, he left the house? Not one person can seem to answer this question. Now why is that? The intruder had not gained entry, so how was the person with the gun in danger exactly?

joether -> RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimersquiquit (3/8/2014 3:40:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: joether There was no need for the gun owner to go outside in the first place. That's the whole point here. He made a really dumb mistake and now an innocent life is lost. Westbrook is the one who made the mistake. And chances are, he would be just as dead if the police had arrived first. A devastated family is claiming that when they asked police for help in calming down their frantic schizophrenic son... When the 90-lb boy would not drop a screwdriver, officers tased him repeatedly and shot him to death. ~Link Police repeatedly shot and then tasered a mentally ill 67 year-old woman for not immediately complying with their orders to drop a letter opener. ~Link And those are OFF TOPIC. As such they are NOT relevant to the discussion.

Kirata -> RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimersquiquit (3/8/2014 3:43:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether Funny how you can not seem to explain to me, rationally, tactically, or wisely, WHY, he left the house? Not one person can seem to answer this question. Now why is that? Because your position is based on wisdom, and other people only have facts. K.

Kirata -> RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimersquiquit (3/8/2014 3:45:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether those are OFF TOPIC. As such they are NOT relevant to the discussion. Sez you. See previous. [:D] K.

dcnovice -> RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimersquiquit (3/8/2014 7:20:32 AM)
quote: Hey man read the quote again it says weapons, not guns. Point is, the "quote" isn't a quote, at least not from Freud.

BecomingV -> RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimersquiquit (3/8/2014 7:31:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: joether There was no need for the gun owner to go outside in the first place. That's the whole point here. He made a really dumb mistake and now an innocent life is lost. Westbrook is the one who made the mistake. And chances are, he would be just as dead if the police had arrived first. A devastated family is claiming that when they asked police for help in calming down their frantic schizophrenic son... When the 90-lb boy would not drop a screwdriver, officers tased him repeatedly and shot him to death. ~Link Police repeatedly shot and then tasered a mentally ill 67 year-old woman for not immediately complying with their orders to drop a letter opener. ~Link And those are OFF TOPIC. As such they are NOT relevant to the discussion. Um, joether, did you miss the point of the OP that a mentally incompetent person was violently and unnecessarily killed?

Lucylastic -> RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimersquiquit (3/8/2014 7:32:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic FR Man, it's funny watching the "hide and pray" contingent putting themselves through the contortions on this thread. The guy talking about "failing classes," while he can't even conjugate a verb is a crack-up. And the less they know about combat the more they want to lecture us. lecture? COMBAT? oh ffs LMFAO yep we all be cowards and craven and scared shitless of the sight of a gun and we all be suffering from gun envy cos we be toooscared to use one Fucking bullshit we wont be out shooting people who dare to encroach in our sensibilities, like annoying people in the movie theatre or dying because someone has the misfortune to get shot by a dickdrip who thinks he has no responsibility for his use of his gun. who thinks that taking a life is his right. For me, its the difference between all thinking most of human life is worth something and NOT taking it away from someone else cos you can, yeah thats cowardice.

Lucylastic -> RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimersquiquit (3/8/2014 7:34:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BecomingV quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: joether There was no need for the gun owner to go outside in the first place. That's the whole point here. He made a really dumb mistake and now an innocent life is lost. Westbrook is the one who made the mistake. And chances are, he would be just as dead if the police had arrived first. A devastated family is claiming that when they asked police for help in calming down their frantic schizophrenic son... When the 90-lb boy would not drop a screwdriver, officers tased him repeatedly and shot him to death. ~Link Police repeatedly shot and then tasered a mentally ill 67 year-old woman for not immediately complying with their orders to drop a letter opener. ~Link And those are OFF TOPIC. As such they are NOT relevant to the discussion. Um, joether, did you miss the point of the OP that a mentally incompetent person was violently and unnecessarily killed? Likening schizophrenia to alzheimers was my problem

BecomingV -> RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimersquiquit (3/8/2014 7:50:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic quote: ORIGINAL: BecomingV quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: joether There was no need for the gun owner to go outside in the first place. That's the whole point here. He made a really dumb mistake and now an innocent life is lost. Westbrook is the one who made the mistake. And chances are, he would be just as dead if the police had arrived first. A devastated family is claiming that when they asked police for help in calming down their frantic schizophrenic son... When the 90-lb boy would not drop a screwdriver, officers tased him repeatedly and shot him to death. ~Link Police repeatedly shot and then tasered a mentally ill 67 year-old woman for not immediately complying with their orders to drop a letter opener. ~Link And those are OFF TOPIC. As such they are NOT relevant to the discussion. Um, joether, did you miss the point of the OP that a mentally incompetent person was violently and unnecessarily killed? Likening schizophrenia to alzheimers was my problem My point was that the examples given share the common denominator of a person living with a compromised mind and what can happen to them these days. You know, it reminds me of Frankenstein and the torch-carrying mob. The important part of the OP, IMO, is that a fellow human in need was met with a violent end. Issues of gun control and stand your ground and any other way to look at this, should all be secondary considerations to the fact that this guy should have been safe; but wasn't. It's a choice to let fear rule your mind. This guy is a killer. What made him a killer? Who knows? Is he one of the millions of ex-prisoners who come out to face a hostile America? Is he on a prescription that inspires violence? Did he think he was being righteous... doing God's work? Is he one of those shining examples of what an American public education will do for a mind? Is he just ageist and this is a hate crime? I really want to know more about the killer's motives.

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